TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[User1209]

has anyone else heard back from nrf post artic shores?

I think they are wrapping up the arctic shores test this Friday, so probably will hear back starting next week!

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Hi, I am applying to a VS for a firm with the same application questions as the TC I applied for in July. They sent an email saying that they had filled all their spots for the TC and would not be progressing my application as a result of no more TCs being available.

I am under the impression that they did not review my application. Would it be okay to use the same answers I submitted a few months ago or would this be disadvantageous? @Jessica Booker Thank you!

Hiya @Chelsea101

It's great that you're reapplying for a vacation scheme, but to build on what @Jessica Booker said, I'd recommend against submitting the same application you used for the training contract application in July. Even if the firm didn’t review your previous application, updating it shows that you've reflected on your experiences, motivations, and have gained fresh insights since then.

In previous cycles, Jess and several other Community Assistants have emphasised to me the importance of going beyond just updating factual information. For example, for any commercially focussed questions, it’s worth discussing something more recent than what you mentioned in your previous application. The legal industry, particularly commercial law, is dynamic and constantly evolving. Firms want to see that you’re keeping up to date with these changes and understand how current events impact their clients and the sectors they operate in. Using recent developments in your answers not only demonstrates your commercial awareness but also shows your genuine interest in staying informed and engaged.

Similarly, when discussing your motivations for joining the firm or your research into their work, it’s important to refine these points to reflect any new insights or areas of interest. For instance, you might ask yourself what you've learnt about the firm since your last application; have there been any recent developments in their practice areas, deals/cases, or CSR/EDI initiatives that have resonated with you? By reflecting on such questions, you can ensure that your reasons for wanting to join the firm remain current, thoughtful, and tailored to any new information you've gained.

Best of luck!

 

[legal18]

SH VS are open. 3 x 600 word questions...

 

[tcla02]

hi I got the email from DLA saying I have to take the WG and that the link is another email but so far I have received no emails with the test. It's been one day since they sent me the first email and I do not know what to do anymore. anyone have any ideas?

@Jessica Booker any advice?

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Is it enough that Macfarlanes and Jones Day both have very strong rankings/reputation in mid-market M&A to call them "competitors"? The same goes for DLA Piper in PE buyouts.

JD has few rankings in UK practice areas, so I'm having a difficult time figuring out who their competitors really are.

Hiya @Apple

You're definitely on the right track by looking at rankings and reputation in specific practice areas like mid-market M&A. It’s a good starting point when thinking about competitors. However, when answering this sort of question in my own applications/interviews, I found it helpful to take a step back and consider a wider range of factors beyond rankings. For instance, history, organisational structure, geographic footprint, and strategic focus all play a role in defining a firm’s competitors (though you don't need to mention all or any given one of these). In addition to practice area rankings, taking these additional factors into will help you make much more apt comparisons.

While Jones Day is certainly similar to firms like Macfarlanes or DLA Piper in terms of its rankings in those areas, you might want to consider firms such as Dechert or even Willkie. For instance, much like Jones Day, Dechert is a US-headquartered firm and entered the London market through a merger with important local UK outfit: Jones Day merged with Gouldens in 2003, and Dechert joined forces with Titmuss Sainer in 2000. As you mentioned, both firms have strong reputations in mid-market M&A, but they also have notable disputes capabilities as well (both firms are particularly well-known for advising on fraud-related matters). In this way, they are also much more similar to each other than other US firms whose work is often focussed on transactional matters. Their shared US origins, strategic London expansions, and similar practice strengths make Dechert a more direct competitor to Jones Day than firms such as Macfarlanes or DLA Piper (indeed, I think the latter two have histories, organisational structures, and strategies that differ in very significant ways from Jones Day, making it less apt to call them competitors).

I really hope this offers some help with answering this sort of question. Good luck with the application 🥳

 

[Tintin06]

As far as I am aware I was the only one that day but no idea tbh. It is just an 1hr 15 interview.

That sounds very chill quite honestly.

 

[Apple]

Hiya @Apple

You're definitely on the right track by looking at rankings and reputation in specific practice areas like mid-market M&A. It’s a good starting point when thinking about competitors. However, when answering this sort of question in my own applications/interviews, I found it helpful to take a step back and consider a wider range of factors beyond rankings. For instance, history, organisational structure, geographic footprint, and strategic focus all play a role in defining a firm’s competitors (though you don't need to mention all or any one of these). In addition to practice area rankings, taking these additional factors into will help you make much more apt comparisons.

While Jones Day is certainly similar to firms like Macfarlanes or DLA Piper in terms of its rankings in those areas, you might want to consider firms such as Dechert or even Willkie. For instance, much like Jones Day, Dechert is a US-headquartered firm and entered the London market through a merger with important local UK outfit: Jones Day merged with Gouldens in 2003, and Dechert joined forces with Titmuss Sainer in 2000. As you mentioned, both firms have strong reputations in mid-market M&A, but they also have notable disputes capabilities as well (both firms are particularly well-known for advising on fraud-related matters). In this way, they are also much more similar to each other than other US firms whose work is largely transactionally focussed. Their shared US origins, strategic London expansions, and similar practice strengths make Dechert a more direct competitor to Jones Day than firms such as Macfarlanes or DLA Piper (indeed, I think the latter two have histories, organisational structures, and strategies that differ in very significant ways from Jones Day, making it less apt to call them competitors).

I really hope this helps and offers some help with answering this sort of question. Good luck with the application 🥳

This was perfect, thank you

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker ,

I have just been accepted in a Pro bono placement programme which I will be able to add to my CV from early to mid November onwards as I have not done anything yet. Will I be at a disadvantage if I wait until at least mid November to apply to firms that are rolling (Reed, Dentons, Bakers, OC)?

If you still have 3-4 (or more weeks) before the deadline, I don’t think it’s an issue to wait. However, you could just include the entry anyway but just not provide a detailed description of the work too.

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker any advice?

Check your spam folders first, and if they are not there or in your normal email by Monday morning, then contact the firm.

 

[sammm10101]

SH VS are open. 3 x 600 word questions...

Are SH rolling? and damn, 1800 words is kind of crazy 😭 especially compared to like Jones Day where you only get 350

 

[Smart water 0403]

is simmons test automatic? and how long does it normally take to be sent it ?

 

[-legal-]

If you still have 3-4 (or more weeks) before the deadline, I don’t think it’s an issue to wait. However, you could just include the entry anyway but just not provide a detailed description of the work too.

I still have at least 2 months for most of these firms as most of them have december/january deadline. Can I include the entry without starting it and say that I have been accepted or should I just wait until I start maybe the training or the work itself so I have something tangible to write?

 

[HLL]

hi all, does anyone have an idea of when stephenson harwood's open day applications normally open? trying to find out more about the firm before applying

 

[lookingforaTC]

Hey guys, for the Linklaters assessment, is the critical thinking section after the SJT the Watson Glaser test? i.e., does that also have to be finished by the deadline, or is it the one that can be taken upto 5 days after submitting the application?

Links are contradictory as to whether the SJT (which includes the critical thinking test) must be done by the application deadline or the deadline stated when you login.

I have finished mine past the application deadline and will e-mail them and hopefully they allow it.

 

[lookingforaTC]

Hey guys - what does the Addleshaw Goddard CRT entail? Is it essentially just a watson glaser?

Thanks

Similar, but different.

I've been very successful at WG - but have seemingly failed the critical reasoning tests (or whatever they are called) as I have not been progressed after taking them.

 

[THE GOAT]

That sounds very chill quite honestly.

Yeah imo it’s a great process, probably fairly partner dependent but I really liked how it wasn’t set questions and was just done by where the conversation took us- let’s hope I get a VS offer🙏🏻

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

What are some setbacks ppl talk about in applications?

Hiya @deeja


I used to find this sort of question quite tricky to answer. I would generally avoid discussing set backs related to academics or applications. Instead, I tried to focus on some of the more professional or volunteer-related setback. Here are some examples I've used in previous applications and interviews:

• Workplace/task setbacks: If there were any work-related projects or tasks that didn't go quite as you expected, this is something worth discussing. I've reached for several different examples during interview/applications, including struggling to meet closely bunched deadlines; miscommunication within a team that later affected our deliverable; and overlooking an important step when completing a complex work task, which subsequently required me to think about how to adapt to my initial mistake.
  
  
• Technical setbacks: As someone who isn't the most tech-savvy person, I've sometimes discussed the difficulties I've faced in using tech when completing important tasks. In these cases, I try to show how I've adapted to the technical issue to complete a task or drew on my ability to learn quickly to navigate the tech system/app in question.
  
  
• Needing to suddenly step up: Sometimes when working in group settings, you may suddenly be placed in a leadership position or have to show you're capable of stepping up in difficult circumstances. This might be because someone in the group fell sick, or had to suddenly step aside from their role. This happened to me once while serving in a volunteer position when planning an important event for a student led society. In that circumstance, I discussed how I navigate the sudden change and expectations placed on me.

These are just some examples, and undoubtedly others may have much more compelling ones to mention here. The important thing to note when answering this sort of question is not just describing the setback you faced, but breaking down how you responded and what you learned. Where possible, try to highlight the positive outcome, insight, or skill you developed as a result of facing the setback. Good luck!

 

[fingersarecrossed]

How do recruiters view our applications?
e.g., eligibility first, then application answer then work experience? certain sections before deciding accept/reject an applic?

or

do they go straight to a specific section first or is it just a comprehensive overview of the whole application in chronological order?

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Would it look careless for me to mention Forage schemes in the work experience section if I haven't done the Forage of the actual firm that I am applying to? Thinking to not even mention the schemes...

Hiya @lawyersum

I don’t think it would look careless at all. It would be a great thing to highlight, even if you haven’t completed the specific Forage scheme for the firm you’re applying to. Forage schemes show that you've taken the initiative to gain a deeper understanding of what working in a commercial law environment involves. Regardless of the firm, they help demonstrate your commitment to developing commercial awareness, relevant skills and insights, regardless of the firm.

What’s important is how you present your experience. When including this in your work experience section, highlight the practical skills you gained. This could be specific research you did for certain tasks, or learning how to draft certain documents, and so forth. You can also use this entry as an opportunity to briefly/succinctly discuss how such exposure has deepened your interest in a career in commercial law. Again, all of this shows you're proactive in seeking opportunities to learn and grow, which is exactly the kind of attitude firms are looking for.

Well done on completing the internship and good luck with the application!

 

[Andrei Radu]

How do you guys pick yourself up when feeling defeated? Spending hours drafting applications to just be rejected after a random test.
Do you guys have any tips? @Andrei Radu, how do you manage to not give up?

Unfortunately there's nothing that will completely take away the frustration you are feeling at this moment. I empathize with what you're going through right now and I know it's a difficult spot to be in. When in the same situation, many times I have started wondering if perhaps I am simply not good enough for this and many times I thought I might be better off just giving up. And this wasn't just during my first cycle. In my second cycle, after I had doubled my efforts in applications and after working myself to my upper limits to get the best results in my Year 1 exams, my first outcomes were still straight rejections. I truly felt I didn't have much more to give and that if that wasn't good enough, nothing would.

However, I persisted, and ended up with three TC offers, a more successful application cycle I could have ever dreamed of. My copying strategies were a combination of two apparently opposite approaches. On the one hand, to deal with emotional spiraling and avoid negative feedback loops, I started taking more care of my mental health. After a rejection, instead of locking myself up in my room, I would force myself to go out to a pub, go to the gym, or have a nice meal. That in itself helped me a lot with calming down after the initial shock. Also, I generally started to spend more time with my friends. Instead of having the application cycle as this alienating experience, it became a communal activity for us. Besides making it a lot more fun, this meant rejection was no longer something I was experiencing all by myself. Having the constant support of other people going through the same things as I was made a huge difference.

On the other hand, I reacted by redoubling my unwavering commitment to never giving up. My thought process was that while I cannot control the ultimate outcome of my efforts, the one thing I have absolute control over is what attitude I take to the circumstances I found myself in. I decided the only attitude I would be proud of would be one of untiring perseverance. Thus, instead of each rejection eating away at my resolution, it in fact strengthened it. This way, I pushed myself to keep trying to do better and better and, most importantly, to keep moving forward. This is what ultimately led to my success.

My advice is therefore to take some time for self-care, spend time with your friends and know you are not in this alone, and in spite of everything to not give up! You've got this and your success will taste all the sweeter for all the setbacks you've had to go through!