TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Amma Usman]

I'm applying to an open day and vac scheme where there is a question for each on the application.
Open day: Describe why a legal career at Shoosmiths appeals to you.
Vac scheme: Describe why you want to be a solicitor at Shoosmiths.

Obviously, one mentions the solicitor role, and the other is a legal role in general, but how do I differentiate between my two answers to these questions? Do I need to differentiate a lot or will these be viewed as separate applications? @Jessica Booker @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam @Amma Usman

Hey @Aspiringsolicitor01 ,

Good question.

Both questions are indeed very similar. For the open day app, you will need to show more of what you will gain, rather than what you know. The latter is reserved for the vacation scheme app, where you will need to touch on the skills, qualities, and demonstrated examples of how you will add value as a solicitor at their firm. You will also find it helpful to include in the VS application points to solidify why Shoosmiths. This will become more fluid if you had attended the open day and can touch on any unique facts from it - relating to the work, interesting interactions, culture, and so on. If you have attended any other open days, completed virtual work experiences on the forage, online webinars, etc - feel free to also include them to show an awareness of the work and industry at large.

For the second question, I advise touching well on why commercial law and why Shoosmiths in an adequate capacity. If there is no second question asking for skills or competencies, you will find it beneficial weaving them into ‘why commercial law’. This can be done, for example, by stating how “receiving feedback from your manager on your ability to juggle multiple commitments and point out the legal/ commercial issues from a lease agreement solidified your passion for the profession“. Reading between the lines, you can see that I have weaved in two key competencies; (1) balancing multiple tasks and delivering them to a high standard, (2) being open to feedback - which is key for a development programme like a training contract.

Best of luck !!!

 

[Amma Usman]

Hi I wanted to ask if it is normal for Ropes & Gray vacation scheme application to not have a work experience section. I can only see 1 commercial question. It seems very hard to make a decision based solely on that?

Hi ! I’ve made a post on this which I’ve quoted below;

Hey there @helloj ,

This is a really interestingly worded question. I find the ’how that lawyer would drive our business’ part really cute. Essentially, it is asking ’ why you ‘.

In answering why you, I feel it is particularly important to note that there is no work experience section. This means that you will need to choose the most relevant parts of your life/work experiences to show demonstrated interest. I would also like to add that 500 words is a really demure enough word count to get you to write a really cutesy answer!

Another pro tip is that you don’t have to exactly partition the word count into three to write a good answer. You will find that some characteristics may take longer to touch on than others, but each of the three should be adequately explored. Aim for 120-170 words for each characteristic.

Here’s how I would structure my response for each quality:

1. Name the quality.
2. Why you feel it’s important for an outstanding lawyer.
3. Why an outstanding lawyer at Ropes specifically. Since it‘s the only question, you may want to find a way to tie commercial awareness as a characteristic. Perhaps from this, you could then link with how this would enable you to excel in one of their core practice areas - say..their.. finance or private equity practice.
4. How you would drive the business of the law firm using that quality. You may find it helpful to look at the firm‘s long term growth strategy, or how they’ve been expanding/ their position in the market, to gauge some market sentiment. Then, using this trend, explain how you could add value to the firm using that competency. The reason I feel this is useful is that it shows you did your research into the firm’s actual business, and have had a thorough look at your skills to see where and how you can bring this value.

Before all these, I recommend including an introductory sentence stating the three characteristics you will cover. This will provide a clear and easy structure for the recruiter to follow.

Hope this helps!

 

[Amma Usman]

any advice on how to answer this latham question: 'Please give details of your extra-curricular activities, and any prizes, scholarships, positions of responsibility, or noteworthy achievements that will support your application. (300 words)'

Hey @hazanelson , I recall answering questions like this just as the question presents itself. For example, you will need to touch on one of these listed details first (extra-curriculars, prizes, etc), and then link it to the firm (its trainee qualities, and so on). The latter is very important as the question states “that will support your application”, so the tailored approach is very much needed. I know that Latham prides itself on its one-firm culture, and entrepreneurial spirit, among other values. Thus, it’s worth tailoring those fine details to these.

 

[Andrei Radu]

I am applying for a Direct TC for a firm that I had an AC with last year. How do I leverage this in my application?

I think the best way is to leverage interactions you have had during the AC. Just as you might mention a conversation with a trainee at an open day to support one of your points, you can mention a conversation with a partner/associate in an interview. This might be especially valuable if they gave you some deeper insight when you asked questions around your main points of interest in the firm - it will neatly fit in with your 'why the firm' reasons and will demonstrate your desire to continuously learn about it.

 

[Andrei Radu]

any advice on how to answer this latham question: 'Please give details of your extra-curricular activities, and any prizes, scholarships, positions of responsibility, or noteworthy achievements that will support your application. (300 words)'

Just to add to @Amma Usman's great response, I think you should aim to write 2-3 paragraphs using this easy to follow structure:

1. Explain the story of a selected extracurricular/prize/achievement/etc using the usual STAR structure. To the extent possible, quantify your achievement at the 'Results' stage.
2. Explain how the selected extracurricular/prize/achievement/etc demonstrates a skill/attribute/etc.
3. Explain how that skill/attribute is relevant for the work of a trainee in commercial law, and if you can make particular reference to the tasks and responsibilities trainees are usually working on.
4. To the extent possible, explain how that skill is particularly useful at a firm like Latham. Try to make links to any of the firm's unique selling points and main practice area strengths (PE, banking & finance, capital markets, corporate M&A).

 

[Andrei Radu]

If your application and tests etc get you to latter stages of an application are they looked at again or if you have gotten to AC at that stage is it merely performance there that counts.

The main reason I am asking is that I see the depth and length at some of the admin suggested answers which simply do not fit in to 300 or 250 or similar word answers especially if you add in how it relates to you. If you discuss at length one area is it not to the detriment of your application to show you are well rounded?

I am having a good hit rate at getting to AC (but haven't converted to a VS yet). So are my application form answers good enough or just good enough to progress but if looked at again later not good enough? (If that makes sense).

Hey @3000to1shoteverytime that's a great question. For almost every firm I know (with the exception of a very select few that really emphasize grades or WG results), once you got to the AC stage progression is 99% down to AC performance. I have not heard of any firm that still considers application form answers at this stage. At most, a partner or graduate recruiter could skim through them before an interview, but that would be just to get a glimpse into your motivations and experiences, and even that is quite rare. As such, while I still encourage you to make sure your written applications are of a very high quality, you shouldn't worry about any influence to your post-AC progression chances.

 

[AI212121]

Does grad recruitment tend to take in overall appearance during VI's? Like if the content of my answers are good but I stumble over my words once or twice, or have to take a second to continue?

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam @Amma Usman!

I was hoping to understand what might be the most optimal discussion point for why you choose this firm's levfin practice area. This is for the Latham app, which I am unsure of what I should talk about.

Trawling through the forums, I know to talk about (a) client focus, (b) industry focus, or (c) market focus, but Latham's levfin team is quite similar to other firms in all three of these markets. For example, they are similar to K&E, P,W, and Weil for their large-cap deals, but similar to DLA, HL, Macs for their mid-market work as well. They are similar in their market focus to Weil and CC as they target IBs, private credit, and PE sponsors, so that also makes them similar, and finally, all of these firms' London office works on multi-jurisdictional deals specifically in the EMEA region.

So it seems to be difficult to answer "why train at Latham over its competitors?" if the firm is similar to others. I understand it is asking specifically why I would train at the firm, but it seems very difficult to clearly explain why Latham does different work to its competitors when the levfin market seems to be highly commoditised.

Appreciate the help!

Hey @svb risk management intern and thanks for the great question. Just to add to @Amma Usman's excellent response, I think finding the 'unique' part of Latham's leveraged finance practice that you can tie your motivation to is easier than you would think. Basically, I think you have already done the job yourself, but you just need to shift your perspective as to what makes a great 'Why the firm' answer.

As Amma pointed out, it is very rare to find out anything unique about a firm's practice at a broad level, so you need to find a more specific and niche subpart to tie your reasoning too. However, even that can be quite difficult to find. Intuitively, you have already attempted to do so, by going beyond ascertaining "practice area strength" and looking into three more specific parts of the practice: (a) client focus, (b) industry focus, and (c) market focus. You have done well to have identified where Latham sits in the market in each, but you have found that none makes the firm truly unique, as there are rivals for each market segment even in these more niche categories. Nonetheless, the information you have gathered, taken as a whole, does make Latham unique. While if you were to take any of (a) or (b) or (c) separately it would have not sufficed, if you explain that what motivates you to train at Latham is that the lev fin team has (a) and (b) and (c), then it will - for none of the identified firms is great for both large-cap and mid-market deals and also has the same market focus as Latham. Sure, you will need to use some extra word count to explain why you want all these three aspects in your ideal leveraged finance team (besides also explaining your general interest in the practice) but that should not be that difficult to achieve - you probably already have some motivation you can tie to each individual point.

Finally, I wanted to mention that this applies at a broader level for writing a great 'Why the firm' answer. For instance, say you did not want to spend so much word count on just a leveraged finance motivation. Say you went ahead with a simple 'Latham has exceptional expertise in high-end lev fin work' reason for why the firm. That would indeed not suffice for specificity, as this point would equally apply to firms like Kirkland, Paul, Weiss and Milbank. However, that does not mean this added no value. This reason excludes the vast majority of other firms. Now, if you can supplement this first motivation with another one or two that excludes the few firms reason 1 equally applies to, taken as a whole your 'Why the firm' reasoning will apply to no other as well as to Latham. Examples of unique selling points of Latham that differentiate it from rivals with very strong PE/lev fin practices include: strong contentious teams and a more full service London offering, an increasingly strong corporate M&A team, exceptional capital markets expertise, and arguably a more collaborative firm-wide culture. The point to remember is that you should try to make use of reasons conjunctively rather than disjunctively. Think of 'why firm' reasons as 'firm selection criteria': your only job is to make sure no other firm scores as well in all of those criteria, not that no other firm scores as well in any specific criterion.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Does grad recruitment tend to take in overall appearance during VI's? Like if the content of my answers are good but I stumble over my words once or twice, or have to take a second to continue?

I think recruiters focus the most on ascertaining whether you have sensible substantive points and on whether you can communicate them properly. As such, the way you go about articulating your thoughts does play a factor, but as long as your points are good and overall clearly expressed it's not a major consideration. Stumbling once or twice is definitely not a big deal, it is a lot more common than you think. I progressed in VIs in which I struggled significantly more in terms showcasing clear and composed communication.

 

[FutureTraineeMaybe]

Does anybody have insight into whether Davis Polk is highly selective when it comes to academic grades, meaning that successful applicants are likely to have at least a first-class degree or a strong 2.1?

 

[Andrei Radu]

Yeah, GD only recruits through vac schemes. I'm just really nervous tbh, i know they test more commercial awareness and general abilities but then also some of the questions on glassdoor are stressing me out. Someone said they got asked "what makes GD different to Cleary and Linklaters?" Is this likely to be cos that applicant said they also applied to those firms, or just randomly? Because I could answer that compared to other firms i applied to but definitely not with random ones. Does anyone have advice?

While I do not know the context in which this question was asked, I would say based on my own interview experience that it wouldn't be impossible to be asked something like this even if you have not applied to these other firm. The interviewer may want to test your ability to think on the spot about comparisons and issues you may not have considered before and also to test your broader knowledge of the legal market in London.

To answer it, firstly you definitely want to know what are the main firm 'types' - ie Magic Circle/SC/etc but also large/mid/small offices of US firms and also further differentiations between any big practice area/sector focuses - ie 'transactional' and 'disputes' firms. While you need not have a lot of specific knowledge about any of the firms within the broader groups, you need to know the main features associated with these categories. Thus, even if you do not know much about Linklaters, you should be able to different it from GD merely by knowing what makes a firm 'Magic Circle': long history at the pinnacle of the legal market in England and deep ties with UK corporates; top of the market strengths across the spectrum of a full service offering; an expanded network of international offices; a structured training style; large trainee cohorts etc. The same points of differentiation will appear if the interviewer asks about Clifford Chance, Freshfields or A&O Shearman.

Secondly, you need to know the unique selling points of GD and its practice area strengths, and you need to know what other firms those unique selling points/practice area strengths also apply to. If you have found a specific enough conjunction of why GD reasons, there should be no other firm they equally apply to and thus you should always have at least one point of differentiation - with Cleary, maybe the firms have in common strengths in cross-border disputes and mid-sized London offices; but Clearly does not have GD's market recognition for corporate M&A.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Does anybody have insight into whether Davis Polk is highly selective when it comes to academic grades, meaning that successful applicants are likely to have at least a first-class degree or a strong 2.1?

The firm indicated that they expect successful candidates to be on track for/have achieved a high 2.1, but that they will take into account mitigating circumstances and that therefore this is not an absolute requirement.

 

[AI212121]

While I do not know the context in which this question was asked, I would say based on my own interview experience that it wouldn't be impossible to be asked something like this even if you have not applied to these other firm. The interviewer may want to test your ability to think on the spot about comparisons and issues you may not have considered before and also to test your broader knowledge of the legal market in London.

To answer it, firstly you definitely want to know what are the main firm 'types' - ie Magic Circle/SC/etc but also large/mid/small offices of US firms and also further differentiations between any big practice area/sector focuses - ie 'transactional' and 'disputes' firms. While you need not have a lot of specific knowledge about any of the firms within the broader groups, you need to know the main features associated with these categories. Thus, even if you do not know much about Linklaters, you should be able to different it from GD merely by knowing what makes a firm 'Magic Circle': long history at the pinnacle of the legal market in England and deep ties with UK corporates; top of the market strengths across the spectrum of a full service offering; an expanded network of international offices; a structured training style; large trainee cohorts etc. The same points of differentiation will appear if the interviewer asks about Clifford Chance, Freshfields or A&O Shearman.

Secondly, you need to know the unique selling points of GD and its practice area strengths, and you need to know what other firms those unique selling points/practice area strengths also apply to. If you have found a specific enough conjunction of why GD reasons, there should be no other firm they equally apply to and thus you should always have at least one point of differentiation - with Cleary, maybe the firms have in common strengths in cross-border disputes and mid-sized London offices; but Clearly does not have GD's market recognition for corporate M&A.

This might sound like a really silly question, but if I was asked about a firm that i had never heard of in my life and didn't know anything about, what would be the best response? Would asking for more info from the interview be an absolute no-no or is it just best to admit defeat and say "I don't know that firm"?

 

[FutureTraineeMaybe]

The firm indicated that they expect successful candidates to be on track for/have achieved a high 2.1, but that they will take into account mitigating circumstances and that therefore this is not an absolute requirement.

Thank you! @Andrei Radu

 

[happdyln]

Does anybody know how long it takes to hear back from DLA about whether you are through to an AC? I received the email saying a passed the VI a while back

 

[tomtom1]

Does anybody know how long it takes to hear back from DLA about whether you are through to an AC? I received the email saying a passed the VI a while back

Same I got told I passed the VI on 22 nov and haven't heard since

 

[lolasparks]

Does anyone have insight into whether Pinset Masons prefer bullet points or prose for their work experience section? Also any insights on their online assessment? Thank you

 

[theone132213]

Does anyone have tips for answering an app question on setbacks and overcoming them?
I’m struggling to identify what they mean exactly by a setback- would a challenging scenario suffice, or do you have to have failed? This is for Ashurst if that helps.

Any help much appreciated

 

[theone132213]

Does anyone have insight into whether Pinset Masons prefer bullet points or prose for their work experience section? Also any insights on their online assessment? Thank you

I think I remember them saying prose is fine. As for the test, it entails an SJT + Verbal + Numerical test followed by a written task and then a VI. The written task and VI will only be looked at if you pass their benchmark on the initial test ( but you complete them all back to back).

 

[-legal-]

Hi @Amma Usman @Jessica Booker ,
Would this section also include positions of responsibility and if it doesn't is it fine if I only add my non academic interests as I can't think of anything else.

Please use this section to tell us anything else that you feel would support your application. Examples can include, but are not limited to, key achievements, successes, non academic interests, your skills etc.
Max 300 words