TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Heya everyone,

Just a quick reminder to keep our discussions thoughtful and supportive. The forum’s rules are in place to ensure this remains a welcoming space where everyone feels comfortable seeking information or without worrying about being judged or dismissed. There are many people here from all sorts of backgrounds including non-law students, career changers, first year students, foreign applicants and so forth. Please consider your tone and manner of expression, as well as what you say to each other.

Finally, I'd encourage everyone to avoid making authoritative claims about other people's application strategies unless they’re supported by solid evidence or reasoning. Given the nature of the forum, we don't know very much about one another's backgrounds and whether our advice actually makes sense in their situation. Keeping this in mind is important so that we don't end up offering advice that's unhelpful.

Thank you for keeping this space constructive 😊

 

[adrianchkong]

That HSF test might be the worst one I've ever done... very silly way to assess people

What was the test like? Given there's no practice test on the website.

 

[Tclarocks123]

Going rouge and drafting for Latham. Does anyone know if the test is also due 2maro at 11:59pm?

 

[Rus]

What was the test like? Given there's no practice test on the website.

There's a really short practice test in the 'how to apply' page. It's pretty similar to other firms SJTs tbh, felt like I had seen quite a few of the questions before. The personality part was mega repetitive though

 

[Amma Usman]

Hi @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam @Amma Usman!

I was hoping to understand what might be the most optimal discussion point for why you choose this firm's levfin practice area. This is for the Latham app, which I am unsure of what I should talk about.

Trawling through the forums, I know to talk about (a) client focus, (b) industry focus, or (c) market focus, but Latham's levfin team is quite similar to other firms in all three of these markets. For example, they are similar to K&E, P,W, and Weil for their large-cap deals, but similar to DLA, HL, Macs for their mid-market work as well. They are similar in their market focus to Weil and CC as they target IBs, private credit, and PE sponsors, so that also makes them similar, and finally, all of these firms' London office works on multi-jurisdictional deals specifically in the EMEA region.

So it seems to be difficult to answer "why train at Latham over its competitors?" if the firm is similar to others. I understand it is asking specifically why I would train at the firm, but it seems very difficult to clearly explain why Latham does different work to its competitors when the levfin market seems to be highly commoditised.

Appreciate the help!

Hey @svb risk management intern . Honestly, I can’t emphasise how useful this question is to the whole community.

Indeed, you are right in that all these firms share similarities in one way or another - deal scope, client base, market position, and so on. The truth is, this will always be the case. Firms will always work on similar deals and have similar standings in the legal market. Thus, the common question of why X firm, becomes increasingly more difficult when the part ’over its competitors’, is included. However, here is where the interesting part comes in - thorough research and the way in which you tailor your interests to whatever practice area you choose to talk about. This two-tier approach will enable you to find a niche that Latham operates in, perhaps more than its competitors, and tailor your application to that successful/upcoming niche within the wider practice.

As I had already explained, firms will always have niches they specialise in. The ability to tailor your long-term growth aspirations to that area is what will help you bring out that demonstrated interest that is needed for the process.

Let me give you an example with one of Latham’s practices that I’ve once spoken about on the forum within the scope of a similar question to yours…

“ Latham, White & Case, and HSF are among a class of firms with a strong presence in emerging markets, particularly within Africa and the energy/project development sector. Now, it’s funny because many firms have energy and project development practices. However, these firms have a strong presence in emerging markets in Africa - this is their niche. If you have an example of how this resonates with you as a candidate, you’ve not only showed demonstrated interest - you’ve showed specific interest. This is what’ll make your application stand out. Adopt a similar approach to your research on Kennedys, finding a niche in their practices which appeal to you and I’m sure you’ll nail this question. “


This is another example of a post I had made where I tailored such a question given the competitor-focused approach:

“ Ex. 1: ABC Law working on the acquisition of GHY by YUP really appealed to me. This represents the high calibre of deals I would love to get involved in whilst training. This again, is solidified by the firm‘s Band 1 Chambers ranking in Corporate M&A and Private Equity.

Ex. 2: ABC Law working on the energy transition in Africa really appealed to me. Particularly, the firm‘s work on the development of the central power frames in the Somalian region stood out, having been named the largest project financing deal in Africa then. As a Somalian, where inconsistent power supply was one of the bane‘s to my existence growing up, I am keen to support Africa’s energy development as a UK-qualified lawyer.

As you can see, the second example is backed up by specific interest. “

Now lastly, it is important to also ensure that you hit the nail on its exact competitors in that market. The examples you have provided are accurate, but if you seek any more information on this, I have made a guide to identifying a firm‘s competitors and linked it below;

Guide to Identifying a Law Firm’s Competitors

In this guide, I’ll be talking about how to identify a law firm’s competitors. This is a skill that’s not only useful for applications but also helps you get a much better understanding of the legal industry as a whole. Honestly, this was something I initially struggled with. I found it hard to...

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

 

[Amma Usman]

Is there a point applying to Goodwin's TC? Or do they mostly hire from VS?

Hey @gazdgazd11 , @Ram Sabaratnam has made a very helpful thread on this. Goodwin is also included, and I’ve linked it here; https://www.thecorporatelawacademy....eme-vs-direct-tc-applications-2024-2025.9147/

 

[Vitamin]

if anyone is doing the taylor wessing written assessment next week could you please pm me? thank you!

I have one!

 

[Amma Usman]

Is the Paul Hastings work experience assessed? It doesn't sound like your standard VS. Is it worth applying for that or the direct TC? Any know where they mostly hire from?

Hey @Tintin06 , good question. I’m linking @Ram Sabaratnam ’s really wonderful thread here - https://www.thecorporatelawacademy....eme-vs-direct-tc-applications-2024-2025.9147/

PH has been included, as well as a bunch of other firms!!!

 

[Andrei Radu]

Thank you, Andrei! I really appreciate your thoughtful response. The six month NY secondment at Davis Polk sounds very interesting - the firm's stature in the US market is a huge attraction for me. If I may ask two questions:
1. What made you choose Davis Polk over the other three firms you received TCs for?
2. In your opinion, which aspects of your application were the most decisive in receiving a TC at Davis Polk? I haven't had the opportunity to interact with the firm at all so I'd feel hesitant for my first interaction with the firm to be an application. I've attended lots of online events for UK, US etc. firms (selective + non-selective) but I'm not sure if that (coupled with detailed research of Davis Polk, commercial awareness etc.) would suffice?

Thank you for your kindness + insight.

1. There wasn't just one singular reason why I ended up choosing Davis Polk, it was more that the firm scored best on most of my relevant selection criteria:

• Client relationships and quality of work: the firm's US reputation, and especially its long standing institutional relationships in Wall Street, was an important consideration. For US firms in London a big part of their work will originate from clients in the US, so their renown there is a crucial (though often overlooked) factor to consider if you want to work on the highest end mandates.
• Small but extremely efficient corporate practice in London: Davis Polk's London corporate team is very lean compared to most rivals, with competitors with the same Chambers M&A and equity capital markets rankings having teams from double to 4/5 times the headcount. That suggests that the firm's individual practitioners are extremely efficient, which is further evidenced by the rankings in The Lawyer's Corporate Efficiency report. In 2023 Davis Polk was first by a significant margin and in 2024 it came second only after Paul, Weiss (a firm whose efficiency rankings may have been propelled by their hiring spree), and had the best/second best revenue per corporate lawyer and revenue per corporate partner figures in both years. This quality-focused approach is illustrated in the firm's average deal value figures as well: while Davis Polk works on a significantly lower number of transactions than a Latham or Kirkland, the average value of a mandate the firm works on is around three times higher - in fact, in 2023 it was the highest in the world. As at this point I knew I wanted to be a corporate lawyer and to work in a lean team, this very quality-focused strategy was attractive to me.
• Seat rotation structure: Davis Polk's pinpointed corporate-finance focus and small size means that the firm foes not operate the usual strict 4 seats rotation structure. Instead, the process is a lot more "conversational" and it is not uncommon to do even 3 seats in corporate if you want to. Since I know this is the area I want to work in, this system was a lot more attractive for me than a more conventional and broader training experience.
• Strong financials and growth plan: Davis Polk has historically been leading global average PEP rankings, in the last 5 and 10 years having the 3rd average PEP per year in the world (only behind Wachtell and Kirkland). This signals a very successful business model, which allows the firm to make substantial investments when appropriate. This enabled Davis Polk to begin a period of expansion in London while keeping a very high quality-focused approach - its recent lateral hires only include Chambers-ranked star partners, poached from Paul Hastings, Sidley, and A&O Shearman; something that rival firms with a weaker financial position might not have been capable of.

2. I am generally of the view once again that there is never one factor you should think leads to success, and consequently my strategy has been to try to score well in all the relevant assessment criteria rather than to try to be absolutely impressive in any given one. However, if I were to say one thing which I think distinguished me the most in my Davis Polk application and later in my VS I would say it was knowledge of the firm in the context of the broader biglaw legal market. Explaining exactly what different practice areas do and what their work looks like at different levels, what the firm's leading practices are and how they compare to that of rivals beyond Chambers rankings, and what position their firm as a whole occupies in the market is very impressive for a recruiter. It shows passion for researching this career in detail over a long period of time, which is the best evidence that you are a good fit for it.

 

[Amma Usman]

Hey TCLA Community,

I hope you’re all having a FAB weekend!

I have seen a number of posts recently relating to the percentile of candidates firms recruit from either VS’ or TCs.

I’ve linked a thread by @Ram Sabaratnam below which covers so much of the info you need to know regarding this ;

Where firms recruit from (Vacation Scheme vs Direct TC applications) 2024-2025

Hi folks! To help you develop a well-rounded application strategy, we’ve put together the following thread highlighting where firms typically recruit from—whether it's through vacation schemes or direct training contract routes. We've organised firms into four categories: Firms which recruit a...

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

Have a lovely rest of the weekend !

 

[Tintin06]

Hey @Tintin06 , good question. I’m linking @Ram Sabaratnam ’s really wonderful thread here - https://www.thecorporatelawacademy....eme-vs-direct-tc-applications-2024-2025.9147/

PH has been included, as well as a bunch of other firms!!!

That's very helpful pre open day. Thank you.

 

[3000to1shoteverytime]

If your application and tests etc get you to latter stages of an application are they looked at again or if you have gotten to AC at that stage is it merely performance there that counts.

The main reason I am asking is that I see the depth and length at some of the admin suggested answers which simply do not fit in to 300 or 250 or similar word answers especially if you add in how it relates to you. If you discuss at length one area is it not to the detriment of your application to show you are well rounded?

I am having a good hit rate at getting to AC (but haven't converted to a VS yet). So are my application form answers good enough or just good enough to progress but if looked at again later not good enough? (If that makes sense).

 

[Amma Usman]

I'm doing the Eversheds Sutherland application and there is a work experience section and a separate position of responsibility/extra curricular section. I do not have that many extra curricular activities, because I worked 32 hours a week throughout all of university. Would it be worth mentioning running a business for a short period (selling an e-guide with tutorials on making traditional dresses), even thought it was 3 years ago? I am also using this example for the "quality" question just in a lot more detail about the process. I am going to mention organising charity events but other than that I do not have much. Do you think this would put me at a disadvantage.

Hiya @cjwx ,

I strongly believe that you are in no way at a disadvantage. In fact, you have done a lot of really excellent stuff during this period to put in an application.

I want to emphasise that extra-curriculars mean so much more to recruiters than mooting competitions, society participations, etc. Those are certainly great too, but the term extra-curriculars covers, essentially, anything you do outside your free time. Running a business, being self-employed, starting your own venture, all have the potential to help you leverage a lot of skills that law firms - and in fact, any employer, will highly value. For example, what challenges did you face whilst setting up? How did you overcome them? Notice how this on its own brings out two competencies - resilience and problem solving.

The exact timing you executed this doesn’t matter - you had still accomplished it at some point in your life and that is worth celebrating and including in an application. Even organising charity events, which I’m sure you had thoroughly enjoyed doing, shows a passion for the community and this can be likened to the wider pro bono efforts firms engage in.

I would also note that it is not enough to mention positions of responsibilities and extra curriculars without linking it to the core values and competencies the firm looks for in trainees. To find this out, check the firm‘s grad rec website, speak to future trainees, lawyers at the firm, etc. This will place you as a candidate that not only HAS value, but one that can BRING value. At the end of the day, this is what matters.

 

[g.cl.2020344]

I just did a SJT, and I got within the highest bracket for "applied verbal intellect" and in the lowest bracket for "numerical" should I assume a PFO?

 

[g.cl.2020344]

No! I got this result last year and made it to a firms AC!

Amazing thank you! hopefully that happens for me. It's so frustrating when you think a SJT went well, and the feedback report comes and contradicts your answers or skills that you know you have in real life.

 

[Andrei Radu]

I just did a SJT, and I got within the highest bracket for "applied verbal intellect" and in the lowest bracket for "numerical" should I assume a PFO?

I would definitely not simply assume that. The way SJTs are designed, most candidates will often have a lowest scoring bracket. Moreover, if you ask me, (i) applied verbal intellect is very relevant for the practice of trainees, as your basic tasks will always revolve around reasoning around texts; and (ii) numerical skills, though sometimes useful, are comparatively a very minor part of the job.

 

[BobThebIlly]

That HSF test might be the worst one I've ever done... very silly way to assess people

Do u have any last min tips to prep for it? I have no clue what to expect !

 

[JasmineM9]

Hello! Hope everyone is well! For the Latham application, do they review the application SJT and VI holistically or do they put more emphasis on a specific part for example VI or SJT? (Hope it makes sense haha)

 

[airyfairy123]

Hello! Hope everyone is well! For the Latham application, do they review the application SJT and VI holistically or do they put more emphasis on a specific part for example VI or SJT? (Hope it makes sense haha)

I think it’s everything in totality. No way of really knowing so I’d say just put 100% into every element!

 

[SamiyaJ]

For those that did the Latham SJT and VI, how much time do we get to prep for the VI and how much time to speak?

I think for the VI you get 3 mins to prep and 2 mins to answer