TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Jessica Booker]

I am reapplying to a firm after failing the video interview. The issue is I do not want to fix what is not broken. How do I go about "updating" my app without losing the essence? @Jessica Booker @Ram Sabaratnam

I think the trick is to consider that just because your application was successful last time, does not mean it will be successful the next time around.

You will either be applying to a different type of vacancy or will be applying later on in the recruitment cycle/next cycle, and so it is important to go in with the mindset of what has changed/what has improved since my last application and making sure that is reflected in the next one.

It can be important to also review with a fresh pair of critical eyes what you have presented and change where needed. For instance, certain aspects of my CV haven’t really changed (eg my past work experiences haven’t changed) but everytime I review my CV I question why I focused on something or think I could redraft the same point in a more persuasive style.

 

[Jessica Booker]

If it is 3 questions with 300 words each, my total word count can’t exceed 1,125? Just want to be sure

That’s correct.

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

@Ram Sabaratnam I recall you previously mentioned avoiding the generic response, 'I am interested in both law and business,' when addressing the question of why I chose commercial law. I typically prefer a structured approach to these types of questions where I write three key points, starting with how my interest in the field began and so on. Could the intersection of law and business be one of those points, or does that come across as too broad? The reason I ask is that I studied law and also ran a small business, so I often incorporate that into my answer as one of the key points. Thank youu

Hiya @bella98

That's so impressive that you ran a small business whilst studying - wowza!

Yes, I think a structured approach is great (it's how I typically answered this type of question). I also recommend adding a tad bit of nuance when discussing your interest in both law and business. Oftentimes, applicants simply make this point without much further explanation.

Instead, try to think about what makes the blend of law and business interesting. For instance, working with businesses means helping them with legal decisions that can affect not just one person but entire organisations, their employees, shareholders, and customers. For this reason, commercial law often requires engaging with legal issues that are both complex and multi-faceted. Alternatively, maybe you're interested in this area of law because of the high level of collaboration it typically demands. Again, in commercial law, you’re not just working with your own team to offer legal advise, but also with other departments at your firm, as well as engaging with teams of in-house counsel, executives, regulators, and professionals from other fields like finance or consulting. This level of collaboration can make commercial law particularly interesting when compared to other types of client services or other areas of law.

Overall, just try to be specific and demonstrate that you can make the point in a more sophisticated way. Thus, you should avoid simply stating that that the blend of the two is 'complex', 'collaborative', or 'dynamic'. Rather, you should try to show the reader how that's the case (in the way I've tried to do above).

Hope this helps and best of luck with your application!

 

[Andrei Radu]

@Andrei Radu and others, thank you in advance for answering: if a firm allows max 5 experiences including actual WE, extracurriculars, volunteering, sport activities etc. on its application form, is it a good idea to merge some of them into one? such as all extracurriculars done at uni societies as 1 experience, or all volunteering activities as another one. Further, if limited to 5, should I include the firm's Forage job simulation or that'd be a waste? (they don't ask elsewhere on the app form if I did it or not). I feel like I have much more valuable work experience but they could care about their own job sim more

I think it is a good idea to list more experiences under one heading when there is a natural way you can organize them under a label. What you mentioned are good examples of that, so you can definitely put down broader headings such as 'university society roles' or 'volunteering roles' or 'law firm events'. A bad example would be something like 'Internships' when you have done internships in very different roles and in different industries. This is because there would not be enough commonality between the experiences to justify bundling them together and this might be interpreted by recruiters as just an attempt to sidestep their listing limit.

As for your second question about the Forage experience, I think given the space constraints, if you cannot find a way to bundle it with other work experiences it may indeed be preferrable to prioritize more substantive jobs. However, I would still try to mention it, even if very briefly, in one of your answer to application form questions or in the cover letter.

 

[VMS]

W&C and PwC rejections today...

Has anyone heard about the Cooley Open Day yet? They said we'll be hearing back by today. Bad news often comes in threes, but I'm hoping that won't be the case this time!

 

[g.cl.2020344]

W&C and PwC rejections today...

Has anyone heard about the Cooley Open Day yet? They said we'll be hearing back by today. Bad news often comes in threes, but I'm hoping that won't be the case this time!

Heya sorry to hear this! Which state did you get to from PWC? I’m waiting to hear back post AC

 

[helloj]

Sullivan & Cromwell replied to my application today saying they have reviewed my application for the Summer Vac but I have been put on hold until the app deadline and they will let me know about if I have been invited to an interview post deadline. Anyone have any thoughts on this I don't know how to feel...

 

[KBanana]

@Ram Sabaratnam @Jessica Booker
On the Vantage application portal, it states "Please add any supplementary educational information including extra study and international qualifications". Would it be appropriate to mention a language course I am currently taking during my gap year?

Thank you!

 

[RonRod13]

Has anyone heard back from CMS for their Insight Programme? Not direct TC

 

[yasmars]

How long does CMS take to send rejections after completing the WG?

 

[Andrei Radu]

@Ram Sabaratnam I recall you previously mentioned avoiding the generic response, 'I am interested in both law and business,' when addressing the question of why I chose commercial law. I typically prefer a structured approach to these types of questions where I write three key points, starting with how my interest in the field began and so on. Could the intersection of law and business be one of those points, or does that come across as too broad? The reason I ask is that I studied law and also ran a small business, so I often incorporate that into my answer as one of the key points. Thank youu

Hi @bella98 I just wanted to add my perspective to @Ram Sabaratnam's excellent points and to also use the opportunity to do a bit of overanalysis of the 'theory' behind an optimal 'why commercial law' answer. I think there are essentially two ways you can make a 'intersection of business and law' reasoning work. One of them, as Ram explained, is to focus on the intersection directly. Essentially, this means looking at the most important features of work that involves both commercial and legal thinking and explaining how that attracts you. The advantage of such an approach is that it is very direct, clear, and will not take up a lot of word count. The disadvantage is that it will likely not in itself be sufficiently specific to justify your choice of law over any other career. For instance, say you make your point about how the work of a commercial solicitor involves a lot of collaboration with sophisticated parties like opposing counsel, bankers, consultants and so on. And this is a good thing to mention. This reasoning explains, for instance, why you prefer a career as a commercial solicitor to one as an academic or sole legal practitioner. From the point of view of the recruiter, writing about this collaboration-centered interest restricts the field of potential career options compatible with your fundamental motivations. However, it does not restrict it to only commercial law and nothing else. Investment banking and consulting for instance require similar levels of collaboration. And this problem persists with a number of other commonly-cited motivations, such as a desire to work in a client-facing role or to use analytic skills for problem solving.

Essentially, I think whichever are the two or three reasons you cite, you want to picture them as Venn diagrams. Each of them will exclude a number of careers and include a number of other careers, and each circle will have some overlap with the others. To be sufficiently specific, you want to ensure that you only find commercial law at the intersection. This can definitely work with the aforementioned type of 'direct' reasoning, but you will need to supplement it with reasons that will eliminate other applicable careers such as consulting or finance.

The second approach, which is the one I used, has the disadvantages of being less direct and of taking up more space. However, if done correctly, I think it has the important benefit of ensuring that only commercial law will be at the intersection of your "motivational" Venn diagrams. The approach involves stating the same 'intersection of business and law' point, but instead of trying to pick up one attractive aspect of the job to justify the claim directly, it splits it up into a 'Why law' and a 'Why business' part. As Ram explained, you cannot simply assert this, so then you go on to explain (i) what about working with law interests you - examples of what I have seen work well here included focusing on an interest in legal reasoning; advocacy; textual analysis skills; and (ii) what specifically makes you interested in the business world - examples of what I've seen work is a general interest in learning about the inner workings of the economy; how relationships between institutions and individuals work in different industries and geographies.

This further focused analysis on what about the concept of law and business attracts you does not need to go into too much depth. In theory, we could always ask further whys to any answer you give, and recruiters are not absurd. As long as you pick up one one central aspect of law and once central aspect of business that draws you and you then illustrate that with a concrete experience/achievement, I think you will have a great answer.

 

[VMS]

Heya sorry to hear this! Which state did you get to from PWC? I’m waiting to hear back post AC

I got to VI. They did say in their email that they would welcome an app from me after the six month period, but they might say that to everyone.

Best of luck in getting past AC! I hope it works out for you

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Ram Sabaratnam @Jessica Booker
On the Vantage application portal, it states "Please add any supplementary educational information including extra study and international qualifications". Would it be appropriate to mention a language course I am currently taking during my gap year?

Thank you!

Yes - you could include this detail in this section if it is a course or qualification.

 

[g.cl.2020344]

I got to VI. They did say in their email that they would welcome an app from me after the six month period, but they might say that to everyone.

Best of luck in getting past AC! I hope it works out for you

Ah that’s positive that you can still reapply! Thank you! Good luck!

 

[Szofi66]

I think it is a good idea to list more experiences under one heading when there is a natural way you can organize them under a label. What you mentioned are good examples of that, so you can definitely put down broader headings such as 'university society roles' or 'volunteering roles' or 'law firm events'. A bad example would be something like 'Internships' when you have done internships in very different roles and in different industries. This is because there would not be enough commonality between the experiences to justify bundling them together and this might be interpreted by recruiters as just an attempt to sidestep their listing limit.

As for your second question about the Forage experience, I think given the space constraints, if you cannot find a way to bundle it with other work experiences it may indeed be preferrable to prioritize more substantive jobs. However, I would still try to mention it, even if very briefly, in one of your answer to application form questions or in the cover letter.

Thank you so much!

 

[Andrei Radu]

@Ram Sabaratnam @Jessica Booker
On the Vantage application portal, it states "Please add any supplementary educational information including extra study and international qualifications". Would it be appropriate to mention a language course I am currently taking during my gap year?

Thank you!

Hi @KBanana and just to offer a quick response before @Ram Sabaratnam and @Jessica Booker come back to you: I think the answer is yes, provided that the course requires significant commitment of your time and efforts. If it takes less than 4-5 hours of study per week for you, I think that will mentioning it will likely not do you much harm, it won't add a lot of value either. If you dedicate around 10 hours or more, I would definitely mention it. On that point, I would also advise you to explicitly quantify your efforts both in terms of time commitments and regarding the level of proficiency you expect to attain.

 

[andreilover01]

Hi @andreilover01

I’m sure you'd just LOOOOOVE some insight from @Andrei Radu (and I would too tbh), but I just wanted to chime in to say YES, you can absolutely talk about debate and the steps you’ve taken to improve your skills. It’s a great example that can be taken in a lot of interesting directions. That said, the question isn't mainly asking you to focus primarily on how you've developed your competency in the activity, but trying to explore what you find interesting or appealing about this activity. You can definitely mention your ability to use/develop certain skills when carrying out this specific extracurricular activity and describe how you've gone about doing so. Just make sure not to lose focus of what the question is mainly asking you to do, which is to describe why you find the activity interesting/inspiring. Is it the intellectual challenge, the challenge of presenting a strong argument and persuading others, or the collaboration with teammates to find the best arguments for your position? If it's one or another of these, bring that reason right up top when discussing the activity. Showing what interests you will help bring your response to life and give the reader a real sense of your personality.

If the word count allows, it might also be worth mentioning another interest or two which showcases a broader range of activities and what you enjoy about them. For instance, if you’re into art, a particular sport, or anything else really, how do these hobbies inspire or challenge you in unique ways? By discussing multiple activities, you can demonstrate different facets of your character and the skills or qualities they’ve helped you develop. Ultimately, as Andrei mentioned, the question is about giving the reader a glimpse of your personality: what excites and motivates you outside of education and work. So while debate is one great activity to mention, try to give the reader a multifaceted window into your personality. Good luck with your application!



View attachment 6454

I understand; thank you for the detailed answer!

 

[KBanana]

Is Willkie's application portal also glitching for anyone else? Mine's changed from asking three app questions to asking for a CV and Cover Letter??

 

[User5678]

Hi, do you have any tips on how to prepare for the VI section please? The situation based questions sound difficult!

They were all motivational and strength based.

Just keep in mind it’s very tiring and long… took me three hours to finish it so make sure you do it at a time when u have energy, time and space

There were like 7 sections one section was 4 motivational video interview ques about the firm. The others were all tests with one strength based video interview ques at the end of each of the six tests.

Sorry, I do not remember the ques as such as it was too long but ofc do the basic why IM and stuff. The tests are all based on case study docs which they upload and ask u to read.

Hope this helps

@Scarlett27

 

[lolasparks]

How long after were you informed! and what vacation scheme did you apply for I am doing summer!!

I just to the VI invite, roughly 1 week and two days after I passed the WG.