TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[KBanana]

@Andrei Radu
How important do you think it is to attend a firm's open day? Would it significantly increase my chance of getting a VS? Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 37508]

Does Latham only take Oxbridge for their open days? Do they take Mitigating circumstances into consideration?

Does Latham test include VI?

 

[DulyDiligent]

Does Latham only take Oxbridge for their open days? Do they take Mitigating circumstances into consideration?

I did their open day last year. A lot of oxbridge but also a fair few from UCL and Warwick from what I can remember

 

[Deleted member 37508]

I did their open day last year. A lot of oxbridge but also a fair few from UCL and Warwick from what I can remember

Thank you. How many roughly on it?
Does the test include VI?

 

[Andrei Radu]

W&C AC! I had a question about the questions to ask during the interview, as it would be with the grad rec and an associate. What are some examples of questions that I could ask the both of them?

Hi @unknownnn7372 and first of all huge congratulations for the AC 🥳! I have quoted bellow a post discussing at a more general level what you should consider in determining what questions you want to ask - I think you may find it useful. However, before that I will just list some examples off the top of my head.

Associate:

• If they trained at W&C, how was the experience, how do they think the experience compared to the experience of peers at rival firms, and what kept them at the firm?
• If they moved to W&C, what attracted them to the firm, and what do they see as the firm's unique selling points? and how does the experience at W&C compare to their previous experience?
• Where do they see W&C's position in the market for their relevant practice area? Who are their main competitors, what is their client base, and is there any particular type of mandate they have exceptionally strong expertise for?
• How is work allocated at associate level and what does the path towards specialization look like?
• Is there any matter at the firm they particularly enjoyed working on? What has been one highlight of their time at the firm?

Graduate recruitment:

• What is the split between formal and informal training at the firm? Is this dependent on practice areas?
• Have there been any recent changes in the training offered by the firm?
• How do rotations and seat allocations work at the firm?
• How does the international secondment allocation process work?
• Are there any specific skills/attributes that W&C is focusing on when recruiting?

General discussion about interview questions:

I would say what is best to ask depends on (i) what your interests are; (ii) who is interviewing you; and (iii) what has previously been discussed in the interview:

1. Firstly, you want to ask something that you actually care about. Whoever is interviewing you likely has significant experience with the process and will therefore be able to see whether you are being genuine or just asking a question for the sake of it. Thus, when you think of a potential question, first ask yourself why do you think the answer might matter to you. In fact, I think it would be good if in the interview you mention the reason why you care about the question before you actually ask it - this will directly show the interview that you have put thought into it. An example of questions that you may choose to ask could be questions relating to your 'Why the firm' motivations. For instance, if a a strong reputation in one practice area, you may ask: how has the firm managed to build such a strong practice? what are plans for the future of the practice? are there any relevant challenges and opportunities in that practice's market, and how is the firm planning to respond to that? how can the firm's practice be differentiated from competitors with similar reputations? etc.
2. Secondly, you want to tailor your question to the audience as much as possible. Some questions may be more appropriate for an associate, some for a junior partner, and some for a senior partner. For instance, questions relating to junior culture and training experience are great for associates, questions around progression and the different tasks and responsibilities at different seniority levels in the firm would be great for a junior partner, while questions about the firm's strategy, client base, and market reputation when compared to competitors would be great for the more senior partners. Moreover, you may not want to ask a disputes partner about the firm's strategy to increase market share in PE, and you may want to avoid asking a transactional partner about details of the firm's newest competition litigation mandate. If possible, tailoring your questions around your interviewer's expertise is optimal.
3. Thirdly, you want for your questions to feel natural - you don't want to seem like you came in with a pre-prepared list which you were going to ask regardless of how the interview went. Of course, it is good to show that you have done your research and came prepared. However, you also want to make this section of the interview feel as conversational as possible, as for once you are playing the role of the person doing the asking. The more you can link your questions with what has been touched upon in the interview, the better. Some questions could just be follow-ups to the interviewer's answers to your pre-prepared questions. Some could be just about asking the interviewer to elaborate on some points they touched upon beforehand. However, take care to not be repetitive. Thus, only ask a question if you think it is likely there is a lot more that the interviewer could have to add to the previous discussion.

 

[0livia.pope]

If I still haven't heard back from white and case post-application, but others have already passed the Virtual interview stage and are getting ACs, does this mean I'm in a reject pile? or do they tend to hold many ACs?

same - i'm assuming pfo

 

[Andrei Radu]

@Andrei Radu
How important do you think it is to attend a firm's open day? Would it significantly increase my chance of getting a VS? Thanks!

Unfortunately the rather frustrating answer here is that it depends on the specific firm. Some firms, such as Latham and Linklaters, are known to have a different assessment track for VS applicants who attended an Open Day. Anecdotally, for some other firms attending an open day does not seem to have much of an impact besides showing interaction with the firm.

That said, I think in general attending an open day will give a substantial boost to your application. At the four firms I went to I would estimate the vacation scheme cohorts were from roughly 50% to 80% composed of people who had attended some open day/other significant firm event. In my own applications, 5/6 times I progressed to the AC were with a firm I had attended an event with.

As such, I think if you want to maximize your chances of succeeding in a given VS application, it is a good idea to attend an Open Day. The only caveat is that it would not maximize your overall success chances to attempt to attend an Open Day for every VS application you submit. This would make your application writing schedule administratively difficult and would probably require you to substantially reduce the overall number of VS applications you submit. Thus, I would only apply for Open Days at the top 4-5 firms I was most interested in and simply complete independent VS applications for the rest.

 

[bangarangbass39]

Hi @bangarangbass39 ! Regarding your first question, as to whether this is a respectable score, I think the short answer is yes. A 75-78% overall score should put you well-above the benchmark for most firms. However, this will not be enough to put you heads and shoulders above the crowd when recruiters assess your application + your WG performance holistically. As such, make sure to put a lot of effort into the quality of your research and writing.

As for your second question, I think this depends on how much you have been practicing up to this point and whether there are any good online resources that you have not tried yet. My main bit of advice here is to limit your reliance on purely intuitive judgement and to focus on the technical meanings of the terms describing each category. While the technical meaning has the same extension as the intuitive meaning many times, there are cases that are specifically selected in the test where the extensions differ. The ability to spot those differences is part of what will distinguish a good WG performance from a great WG performance.

When I was preparing for the WG I made a word document summarizing the meanings of the key concepts. I have copied here my Inferences section in case you find that useful:

• True: The inference is explicit in the passage; if the inference is inferable from the passage (solely from the passage and without broader reference to general knowledge).
• Probably True: If the statement does not directly suggest the inference is true, but suggests it is likely (>50%) to be the case; or if the inference is based on common knowledge + information in the passage.
• More information required: Information you are asked is simply not given in the passage, with no grounds for correctly inferring the likelihood of the truth or falsity of the statement; also, generally if the inference is opinionated.
• Probably false: if the statement does not directly suggest the inference is false, but suggests it is likely (>50%) to be the false; or if the inference is false based on common knowledge + information in the passage.
• False: The inference directly contradicts something mentioned in the statement, or if the inference misinterprets the statement.

Without knowing more about how much preparation time you have put into this already, I would advise you to perhaps try to use the rules in these bullet points to do one or two more practice tests. After that I would probably stop, as there definitely is a point of diminishing returns with WG preparation.

Thanks for the insight and advice. It's annoying, a couple of marks make a massive difference from a very strong score to an above-average performance.

Your breakdown is incredibly helpful. I've completed 2 official WGs already. Before that, I completed a significant amount of VR and WG practice tests with Graduate First as prep.

 

[Andrei Radu]

If I still haven't heard back from white and case post-application, but others have already passed the Virtual interview stage and are getting ACs, does this mean I'm in a reject pile? or do they tend to hold many ACs?

Unfortunately it is impossible to tell if they have simply not yet considered your application or considered it and determined an outcome but have simply failed to communicate it yet. However, I would not be too quick to assume rejection, as W&C is known to host multiple ACs throughout the cycle. Last year, for instance, I knew someone who only received their VI invite a month after I received mine and still ended up invited for an AC and then a VS.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Thanks for the insight and advice. It's annoying, a couple of marks make a massive difference from a very strong score to an above-average performance.

Your breakdown is incredibly helpful. I've completed 2 official WGs already. Before that, I completed a significant amount of VR and WG practice tests with Graduate First as prep.

Given the extent of your WG practice, I would again advise you to maybe do one or two practice tests more at most to test your performance with a more technical-focused strategy. Beyond that, as I think applications (and to an extent WG performances) are in big part a number's game, I would simply focus on submitting as many high-quality applications as possible.

 

[fingersarecrossed]

Hi, did you complete it? What kind of questions were asked and how long did they give for preparation and speaking?

i havent yet

 

[Tintin06]

Re: Latham & Watkins open days. No, they’re not just Oxbridge people. I met people from Manchester there.

 

[ThelawgraduateX]

Hi all! this might seem as a strange question, but I am currently completing my vac scheme application for White & Case and I am currently reading their annual review report from 2023. They state that they have advised clients on matters in 201 countries - how can this be possible when there is only 196 countries in the world? Of course I understand that there are nations out there that are currently not recognised by all countries but I don't think this still adds up to 201? Is anyone able to provide a logical explanation to this?

 

[sammm10101]

Hi all! this might seem as a strange question, but I am currently completing my vac scheme application for White & Case and I am currently reading their annual review report from 2023. They state that they have advised clients on matters in 201 countries - how can this be possible when there is only 196 countries in the world? Of course I understand that there are nations out there that are currently not recognised by all countries but I don't think this still adds up to 201? Is anyone able to provide a logical explanation to this?

This is a complete guess but it could refer to England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland etc, as they are recognised as countries but not as states. I imagine there are various other countries which are not states, ie possibly somewhere like Hong Kong or Puerto Rico, but I'm not sure if this is the methodology that W&C would use.

 

[ThelawgraduateX]

This is a complete guess but it could refer to England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland etc, as they are recognised as countries but not as states. I imagine there are various other countries which are not states, ie possibly somewhere like Hong Kong or Puerto Rico, but I'm not sure if this is the methodology that W&C would use.

I think you are right! thank you! it is the only reasonable explanation I can think of

 

[HelpAStudentOut]

Does Latham only take Oxbridge for their open days? Do they take Mitigating circumstances into consideration?

Does Latham test include VI?

No, yes, yes

 

[Deleted member 37508]

No, yes, yes

Legend, thanks for answering all of my questions.

 

[bangarangbass39]

Hi @bangarangbass39 ! Regarding your first question, as to whether this is a respectable score, I think the short answer is yes. A 75-78% overall score should put you well-above the benchmark for most firms. However, this will not be enough to put you heads and shoulders above the crowd when recruiters assess your application + your WG performance holistically. As such, make sure to put a lot of effort into the quality of your research and writing.

As for your second question, I think this depends on how much you have been practicing up to this point and whether there are any good online resources that you have not tried yet. My main bit of advice here is to limit your reliance on purely intuitive judgement and to focus on the technical meanings of the terms describing each category. While the technical meaning has the same extension as the intuitive meaning many times, there are cases that are specifically selected in the test where the extensions differ. The ability to spot those differences is part of what will distinguish a good WG performance from a great WG performance.

When I was preparing for the WG I made a word document summarizing the meanings of the key concepts. I have copied here my Inferences section in case you find that useful:

• True: The inference is explicit in the passage; if the inference is inferable from the passage (solely from the passage and without broader reference to general knowledge).
• Probably True: If the statement does not directly suggest the inference is true, but suggests it is likely (>50%) to be the case; or if the inference is based on common knowledge + information in the passage.
• More information required: Information you are asked is simply not given in the passage, with no grounds for correctly inferring the likelihood of the truth or falsity of the statement; also, generally if the inference is opinionated.
• Probably false: if the statement does not directly suggest the inference is false, but suggests it is likely (>50%) to be the false; or if the inference is false based on common knowledge + information in the passage.
• False: The inference directly contradicts something mentioned in the statement, or if the inference misinterprets the statement.

Without knowing more about how much preparation time you have put into this already, I would advise you to perhaps try to use the rules in these bullet points to do one or two more practice tests. After that I would probably stop, as there definitely is a point of diminishing returns with WG preparation.

Just to clarify and wrap up, I'm interested in what is considered a stand-out score. As you mentioned, my application is considered holistically so even if I do get full marks, I can still have an average written app which pulls me down, especially if the application has a greater weighting on progression. Nonetheless, I'm interested in what is considered a stand-out score (beyond full marks).

With the emphasis on percentiles for some firms, I'm worried that getting say an 83% (roughly 33 marks) could be the 50th percentile, downplaying the strength of my performance. This is an outcome you might see regularly from applicants for firms like Linklaters, just to use as an example.

The firms I'm applying to that use this test/test style are Addleshaw, Hogan Lovells, Bates Wells and CMS. From what I have read, Hogan uses a benchmark, but I'm not sure about the others.

 

[studentdelaw786]

Is anyone else applying to Davis Polk’s Open Day or has attended their Open Day and is able to kindly provide insight, please?

 

[andrecsaa]

AG test isn't automatic. At least it wasn't last year. If it has changed then I am in fact wrong. In regards to how long you have, the email says until the Jan 5th deadline. However, it is strongly recommended to complete this as soon as you feel possible to do so.

I applied for the Direct TC last cycle and they held on my app (pre test), transferring it to this current cycle. So I can only advise you to complete it as early as you can. I plan to complete it before the end of this month as I don't want to spend too much time on prepping.

When did you apply in the last cycle? Late October?

Yesterday I received a friendly reminder email from AG saying to submit the application asap. Working on the answer right now to submit it until the end of this week.