TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[futuretcholder]

Unless the firm asks you to discuss 'why law' and 'why the firm' in the same question (eg 'Why do you want to begin a legal career at out firm?'), I don't think there will be any expectation for you to tailor it to the firm. Thus, I do not think it is necessary to find any direct links or connections between your 'why commercial law' reasons and your 'why the firm' motivations. I did not do it in the past application cycle and was still successful with applications to both top US and MC firms. I actually think it might be disadvantageous to attempt this, as it will take up significantly more of your time and will also lead you to try to shoehorn your 'why law' and 'why the firm' reasoning.

As such, I think that once you manage to write a high-quality answer to why commercial law, you can generally reuse it in other applications. That said, there are exceptions to this rule. I think the following are situations where you should be willing to modify your model 'why commercial law' answer:

• If your 'Why commercial law' answer would undermine your 'Why the firm' motivations. For instance, if you discuss your interest in highly-complex international litigation work as the origin for your interest in commercial law, this will not fit well when you are applying for a very transactional-focused firm.
• If the experiences you discuss as part of your 'why commercial law' answer would better fit your 'why the firm' answer. You want to avoid repetition in the application and in general it is more difficult to find experiences that have connections to the more particular features of a specific firm when compared to finding experiences with connections to the more general features of commercial law.
• Differences in word count limits: For instance, if your model why commercial law answer is 250 words, but the word count limit in a new application is 500 words, I do not think you should reuse it. Recruiters might expect you to fully use the available space and you should therefore expand on your previous answer.

Hi Andrei,

Thank you for your response, this was really helpful. This question is in response to your first bullet point:

In the application I submitted for WVS, for the why commercial law and why this firm question (it was in the same question), I mentioned that I was initially interested in IP, but after attending a firm event on banking and finance, my understanding of commercial law deepened and I explained what I learnt and how this was interesting to me. I then transitioned into explaining why this firm (the firm is known for its banking practice and not IP).

Do you think this approach is ok? I just used IP as a stepping stone in explaining how my initial interest in commercial law began but I don't go into it deeply.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi Andrei,

Thank you for your response, this was really helpful. This question is in response to your first bullet point:

In the application I submitted for WVS, for the why commercial law and why this firm question (it was in the same question), I mentioned that I was initially interested in IP, but after attending a firm event on banking and finance, my understanding of commercial law deepened and I explained what I learnt and how this was interesting to me. I then transitioned into explaining why this firm (the firm is known for its banking practice and not IP).

Do you think this approach is ok? I just used IP as a stepping stone in explaining how my initial interest in commercial law began but I don't go into it deeply.

This sounds fine to me - as long as you properly explain the reason behind your current more expansive interest in commercial law at large (which you seem to have done), I don't think there's any issue with mentioning that the origin of the interest was in a specific practice that a firm does not focus on. The only thing I would comment on your answer is that you want to emphasize how you attending that firm event led to the formation of a broad interest in commercial law, rather than just a new interest in banking alongside your previous interest in IP. I don't know much about WVS, but in general even firms which are focused on one practice area will expect you to do well and perhaps be willing to qualify in other seats. As such, you do not want to leave any room for an interpretation that you would not be happy to work in the firm's other practice areas as well.

 

[Andrei Radu]

I have just started my Jones Day application, and it feels like the firm really values interactions that candidates have had with the firm, e.g. has a separate question asking if I have completed their virtual work experience. I know completing any firm's virtual work experience is a plus, but I had never seen a separate Yes/No question for it before. Does anyone know if this is a borderline deal-breaker for Jones Day (even if not officially)?

I know someone who had not completed their work experience and still progressed to the interview stage. As far as I'm aware they also did not have prior interactions with the firm, so I do not think it is a deal-braker. That said, the fact that they have a separate Yes/No question for it might mean that they place more emphasis on it than other firms. As such, if you are to progress without having completed it, recruiters at Jones Day may expect you to do better than the average strong candidate in some of the other criteria (grades, quality of written answers, etc).

Regarding the question on whether you should complete the virtual work experience before submitting the application, I would only do that if (1) I had a particularly strong interest in Jones Day when compared to other firms (to justify the extra several amount of hours of work); and (2) if I thought I could still submit the VS app within the next few weeks (this is because Jones Day is one of the firms known to take the 'rolling applications' element really seriously).

 

[bibss]

Anyone knows if I need to include my grades for all modules on the Slaughter and May CV? I believe there is a separate section for this on the application process, so I was thinking to just include the overall grades for GCSE, A Level and university?

 

[laurenn42]

Hi Lauren, my top tip for the WG is to read really carefully the instructions for each section and note them down in a number of short bullet points, which you can then go back to when having difficulty during the assessment. The biggest mistake I've seen people make with the WG is to treat it as a general critical thinking (IQ style) test and therefore rely too much on pure intuition when choosing the answer. I have found that an intuitive answer could be right in some sections and not in other. I have tended to score quite highly on the WG and my focus has been on the precise boundaries of the criteria given for each section - what can be assumed vs what can be inferred vs what can be deducted all have slightly different meanings, just as 'true', 'probable', 'beyond reasonable doubt', 'logically certain' all have slightly different meanings. The difference between the candidates who score highly and those who score at our under average will likely depend on an ability to notice those fine distinctions.

As for top tips for the inferences section, I have copy pasted bellow the information sheet I used. Besides tips to keep in mind, it has some summary of the 'test' I mentally go through when deciding on an answer:

Tips:

• If you don’t know the meaning of a word, try and figure out from its context.
• Notice the difference between qualifiers (e.g. some, most) and extreme qualifiers (always/none).

Test:

• True: The inference is explicit in the passage; if the inference is inferable from the passage (solely from the passage and without broader reference to general knowledge).
• Probably True: If the statement does not directly suggest the inference is true, but suggests it is likely (>50%) to be the case; or if the inference is based on common knowledge + information in the passage.
• More information required: Information you are asked is simply not given in the passage, with no grounds for correctly inferring the likelihood of the truth or falsity of the statement; also, generally if the inference is opinionated.
• Probably false: if the statement does not directly suggest the inference is false, but suggests it is likely (>50%) to be the false; or if the inference is false based on common knowledge + information in the passage.
• False: The inference directly contradicts something mentioned in the statement, or if the inference misinterprets the statement

This information sheet has been partly based on an excellent course made by the TCLA team on WG preparation. If you haven't already, I highly encourage you to watch it here.

tysm!! this is so helpful for the different categories

 

[Andrei Radu]

Anyone knows if I need to include my grades for all modules on the Slaughter and May CV? I believe there is a separate section for this on the application process, so I was thinking to just include the overall grades for GCSE, A Level and university?

If you include all the relevant module grades in the application form, I do not think you need to necessarily also include them in the CV - especially GCSE and A level grades. I was successful in my Slaughters VS application and my CV only included university module grades + overall grades at A Levels.

 

[Gg2001]

Well, Ashurst's psychometric test was humbling

Just finished it right now. Shouldn’t have spent like 3 weeks on the application. I will just try to apply to more firms now, definitely not making it to the next round. Verbal and logical reasoning I get but why do we need to have maths tests???? whatever man

 

[ayiiii05]

Just finished it right now. Shouldn’t have spent like 3 weeks on the application. I will just try to apply to more firms now, definitely not making it to the next round. Verbal and logical reasoning I get but why do we need to have maths tests???? whatever man

I found the maths tests stupid... I gave up on the test where you had to pick whether the equations were equal or if one was bigger. I just guessed, I didn't even bother looking at the numbers because which human could add up numbers on both sides in 5 seconds???!!!!

 

[bibss]

If you include all the relevant module grades in the application form, I do not think you need to necessarily also include them in the CV - especially GCSE and A level grades. I was successful in my Slaughters VS application and my CV only included university module grades + overall grades at A Levels.

Thanks for this!

 

[fingersarecrossed]

hi!

does anyone have any interview tips?
i am planning to do a starr breakdown of my experiences for different competencies etc then i'm planning to practice saying it - is this sufficient or is there a better way to do this ?

 

[User5678]

I found the maths tests stupid... I gave up on the test where you had to pick whether the equations were equal or if one was bigger. I just guessed, I didn't even bother looking at the numbers because which human could add up numbers on both sides in 5 seconds???!!!!

The issue in the test was TIMING!! couldn’t agree more!! If we had some more time it would be so much easier to crack it

 

[Tsitsipas10S]

Is anyone else unable to see their entire application once it's been submitted for Hogan Lovells' winter vac scheme?

 

[BonanzaBih_]

Assuming NRF test is automatic, how long after applying did you get the test?

 

[SamiyaJ]

Assuming NRF test is automatic, how long after applying did you get the test?

Yes it’s automatic, I got it like 10 minutes after applying. Be sure to check your junk mail!

 

[Tsitsipas10S]

Does anyone think there is much point in delaying vacation scheme applications until the outcome of open day outcomes, even where the vacation scheme applications are assessed on a rolling basis? Would it make more sense to just apply to the vacation scheme first?

 

[AS24]

It is worth applying for a vacation scheme if the deadline is in 8 days and the firm reviews on a rolling basis? Should I wait for the firm to open the applications for the summer vacation scheme?

 

[Apple]

I found the maths tests stupid... I gave up on the test where you had to pick whether the equations were equal or if one was bigger. I just guessed, I didn't even bother looking at the numbers because which human could add up numbers on both sides in 5 seconds???!!!!

once I started seeing numbers in brackets I began just clicking frantically lol.

 

[0livia.pope]

Yes it’s automatic, I got it like 10 minutes after applying. Be sure to check your junk mail!

Is this the Rare contextual form or the Arctic Shores? I haven’t received the arctic shores link and I applied four days ago!

 

[Apple]

Is this the Rare contextual form or the Arctic Shores? I haven’t received the arctic shores link and I applied four days ago!

It doesn't get sent on weekends.

 

[0livia.pope]

It doesn't get sent on weekends.

I see, I guess I’ll wait it out. Applied on Wed and nothing received Thursday or Friday. Thanks!