TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

[WillSweeee01]

Hi all, I’m a long-term lurker on here but have been stressed about an interview I had recently and wanted some guidance.

I was asked by an interviewer to tell me about a time I showed resilience. The example I give for this is when I had to resit my first year of university and how difficult it was. The reason for this was because my mum was going through a lot of health problems, which affected my motivation. I mentioned this, and the interviewer said “sorry about your mum”.

I feel it almost sounds like a sob story and I shouldn’t have mentioned it. Is it generally a mistake to veer into personal stories like this or is it the opposite and makes yourself seem more “real”?

 

[amy2002]

Hi all, I’m a long-term lurker on here but have been stressed about an interview I had recently and wanted some guidance.

I was asked by an interviewer to tell me about a time I showed resilience. The example I give for this is when I had to resit my first year of university and how difficult it was. The reason for this was because my mum was going through a lot of health problems, which affected my motivation. I mentioned this, and the interviewer said “sorry about your mum”.

I feel it almost sounds like a sob story and I shouldn’t have mentioned it. Is it generally a mistake to veer into personal stories like this or is it the opposite and makes yourself seem more “real”?

I wouldn’t label that a “sob story” at all, and I think you’re being overly critical of your performance.

You provided context to the situation and why you resat, which is effective. You didn’t then spiral into how hard your life has been; it sounds like a tiny part of a bigger question. The fact that the interviewer offered their condolences is likely a positive too. If anything, it sounds like you developed a rapport.

I wouldn’t overthink it

 

[Jessica Booker]

Is it usually more just down to an interviewer's personal preference and steer with how they want the interview to go? Are they told to ask certain questions (at the Partner interview stage) or is it very much up to them to dictate the flow of the interview? For instance, I would say a good 10 minutes of mine was just me explaining what I did in my job (I work in quite a niche area of finance), so I don't really know what they take from that because I didn't give any skills as such just what I did.

Again, there is no set answer to this. Sometimes there’s a script of interview questions, sometimes they are just told to ensure they gather certain evidence and have the freedom to ask questions that would hopefully cover those aspects.

 

[WillSweeee01]

I wouldn’t label that a “sob story” at all, and I think you’re being overly critical of your performance.

You provided context to the situation and why you resat, which is effective. You didn’t then spiral into how hard your life has been; it sounds like a tiny part of a bigger question. The fact that the interviewer offered their condolences is likely a positive too. If anything, it sounds like you developed a rapport.

I wouldn’t overthink it

Thank you, that’s helpful

For future reference though, would you recommend avoiding personal things like that in an interview or is it fine in the manner I approached it?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi all, I’m a long-term lurker on here but have been stressed about an interview I had recently and wanted some guidance.

I was asked by an interviewer to tell me about a time I showed resilience. The example I give for this is when I had to resit my first year of university and how difficult it was. The reason for this was because my mum was going through a lot of health problems, which affected my motivation. I mentioned this, and the interviewer said “sorry about your mum”.

I feel it almost sounds like a sob story and I shouldn’t have mentioned it. Is it generally a mistake to veer into personal stories like this or is it the opposite and makes yourself seem more “real”?

It’s not really about whether it is a personal set of circumstances or not. I have seen it work very well on many occasions, but also seen it not work well on others. It’s more about how you present the story - if it’s more focusing on the negative circumstances rather than your skill set/attitude to overcome the circumstances, it won’t be as strong.

In these type of situations, it’s best to focus on the positives of the challenging situation - the learning, the development, the outcome of getting through it.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you, that’s helpful

For future reference though, would you recommend avoiding personal things like that in an interview or is it fine in the manner I approached it?

You don’t have to avoid it. It can work well in interviews.

 

[dantep99]

When a firm says that a performance on a VS will be looked at “holistically”, what exactly is meant by that?

Is it that if you’ve bombed in something, it won’t necessarily be fatal to your chances? Or just everything is taken into consideration and you need to perform well consistently?

 

[FTS209990]

I wouldn’t label that a “sob story” at all, and I think you’re being overly critical of your performance.

You provided context to the situation and why you resat, which is effective. You didn’t then spiral into how hard your life has been; it sounds like a tiny part of a bigger question. The fact that the interviewer offered their condolences is likely a positive too. If anything, it sounds like you developed a rapport.

I wouldn’t overthink it

Almost the exact same thing happened to me recently!! They thanked me for being so open and honest, and I got through to the next stage 😊 I wouldn’t worry!

 

[Jessica Booker]

When a firm says that a performance on a VS will be looked at “holistically”, what exactly is meant by that?

Is it that if you’ve bombed in something, it won’t necessarily be fatal to your chances? Or just everything is taken into consideration and you need to perform well consistently?

I wouldn’t say you could “bomb” something but you could underperform slightly.

Ultimately when they say they will look at things holistically, they will weigh up various bits of evidence and consider that collectively. That does allow slightly lower performance in one assessment to potentially be balanced out by a strong performance in the same competency/skill elsewhere.

 

[WillSweeee01]

It’s not really about whether it is a personal set of circumstances or not. I have seen it work very well on many occasions, but also seen it not work well on others. It’s more about how you present the story - if it’s more focusing on the negative circumstances rather than your skill set/attitude to overcome the circumstances, it won’t be as strong.

In these type of situations, it’s best to focus on the positives of the challenging situation - the learning, the development, the outcome of getting through it.

Thank you Jessica, I appreciate that!

I wanted to make it more personal and honest, but I definitely tried to focus more on how I learned from the situation, the steps I took (both practically and mentally) and the outcome (I received a much higher grade when I resat). So in that sense, it’s a fine approach and I shouldn’t strictly avoid personal topics? I worry about making an interviewer uncomfortable.

I often get nervous during interviews too and worry that this affects my ability to build rapport or display enthusiasm. Are things like this as simple as just smiling and trying to be engaged or is there more to it?

 

[dantep99]

I wouldn’t say you could “bomb” something but you could underperform slightly.

Ultimately when they say they will look at things holistically, they will weigh up various bits of evidence and consider that collectively. That does allow slightly lower performance in one assessment to potentially be balanced out by a strong performance in the same competency/skill elsewhere.

That makes sense, thanks Jessica.

As a follow on to that (and I suppose this is firm dependent), what kind of standard of work is expected from a vacation scheme student? We were assessed on three “trainee level tasks”, but I presume they don’t expect perfection on these? I know I made a couple of mistakes.

 

[AlexJ]

Thanks so much @AlexJ. I don’t suppose if you know if the online learning is exactly the same as the live classes? I.e do they just essentially stream the live classes to those who opt for online?

It is the same material but the classes are split online and in person, so online everyone would be online if that makes sense. It would be say breakout rooms on teams rather than discussing stuff at a table

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you Jessica, I appreciate that!

I wanted to make it more personal and honest, but I definitely tried to focus more on how I learned from the situation, the steps I took (both practically and mentally) and the outcome (I received a much higher grade when I resat). So in that sense, it’s a fine approach and I shouldn’t strictly avoid personal topics? I worry about making an interviewer uncomfortable.

I often get nervous during interviews too and worry that this affects my ability to build rapport or display enthusiasm. Are things like this as simple as just smiling and trying to be engaged or is there more to it?

As I have said previously, you can use personal answers - they can work well.

You are less likely to make the interviewer uncomfortable if you are not labouring the detail of the circumstances. It’s often the case that when people really get into the (usually unnecessary detail) of the circumstances or heavily describe the situation it can be uncomfortable.

Rapport is more than just smiling - it’s about trying to create a connection between you and the interviewer but there are a whole multitude of ways you can do that. There isn’t one style of creating connection - lots of people do it in very different ways, but generally being polite and attentive are the key ingredients to doing so.

 

[Jessica Booker]

That makes sense, thanks Jessica.

As a follow on to that (and I suppose this is firm dependent), what kind of standard of work is expected from a vacation scheme student? We were assessed on three “trainee level tasks”, but I presume they don’t expect perfection on these? I know I made a couple of mistakes.

Perfection does not exist - for any lawyer, let alone a trainee or a vacation scheme student.

There is not a “standard” though - these things are not cookie cutter approaches to assessing, because even if you are all given the same task, people will approach that task in different ways and it does not mean one is right/wrong. They are going to also be looking at your approach as well as your output as well.

 

[Tintin06]

Do you have any tips on how to build rapport effectively with interviewers? @Jessica Booker

I'm pretty competent at interviews. Mirroring often helps. Don't take yourself too seriously, but take the 'why law' and 'why the firm' very seriously. In my Milbank feedback, the Partner literally said I made him laugh. Interviews, unless they are Slaughter and May type debate style interviews (that's what they had in 2019, anyhow), are generally about affinity building IMHO.

 

[legal18]

Hi, I am self-funding a law conversion course at BPP and just wanted some advice. Would it make more sense to do the law conversion course without SQE1 prep in the hopes that I will find a firm to fund my SQE prep and exams? The course without SQE1 prep is cheaper and involves a professional project - would this be a good selling point for employers?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi, I am self-funding a law conversion course at BPP and just wanted some advice. Would it make more sense to do the law conversion course without SQE1 prep in the hopes that I will find a firm to fund my SQE prep and exams? The course without SQE1 prep is cheaper and involves a professional project - would this be a good selling point for employers?

The professional project won’t really be a selling point when applying. It might provide an interesting opportunity, but it isn’t going to stand out to employers as something unique or compelling.

Do the firms you are aiming for also sponsor a conversion course? If so, it could be the case you could hold out for either course until you have secured a TC.

 

[legal18]

The professional project won’t really be a selling point when applying. It might provide an interesting opportunity, but it isn’t going to stand out to employers as something unique or compelling.

Do the firms you are aiming for also sponsor a conversion course? If so, it could be the case you could hold out for either course until you have secured a TC.

Yes, they do but I have been unsuccessful this cycle. But in all honesty, I did not do very many applications and it was my first time. I also don't think I'd want to spend a year dilly-dallying and would rather crack on with the law conversion as I can do it as a masters so will still be able to get some funding. My dilemma just is whether I do the masters with SQE1 prep included or not.

 

[lawyerdreams]

Yes, they do but I have been unsuccessful this cycle. But in all honesty, I did not do very many applications and it was my first time. I also don't think I'd want to spend a year dilly-dallying and would rather crack on with the law conversion as I can do it as a masters so will still be able to get some funding. My dilemma just is whether I do the masters with SQE1 prep included or not.

Were you a law or non-law student? If non-law, have you explored doing the PGDL? I think there are a few firms who still require it for non-law students (though someone correct me if I'm wrong) and you could do that for this year and wait before doing SQE1 prep

 

[AspiringLawyer2002]

Hi, I am self-funding a law conversion course at BPP and just wanted some advice. Would it make more sense to do the law conversion course without SQE1 prep in the hopes that I will find a firm to fund my SQE prep and exams? The course without SQE1 prep is cheaper and involves a professional project - would this be a good selling point for employers?

I'm in the same position as you. I decided to go for the masters law route without SQE because it's cheaper and can be almost fully be covered by a govt maintenance grant, whereas for the conversion + SQE course if you are applying for a maintenance loan that's capped at 12.5k so the additional costs will have to be paid fully out of pocket. Also, firms fund SQE1 + 2 together so having done SQE1 already doesn't put you at an advantage (nor does even the conversion course necessarily, but at least that's a good way of understanding key legal principles and opening yourself up to more paralegal opportunities).