TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[James Wakefield]

So for everyone, like me, still waiting for R&G, it seems they send out a lot of rejections and then wait a week before sending out more rejections/AC invites, looking at last year. Thinking maybe our apps are potentially reviewed a second time? So could be a while until hearing back.

 

[xanderlawyer]

I agree with you. That’s kind of the point that I was making. A firm shouldn’t claim to have no minimum entry requirements, or that they assess applications holistically, or that they adopt university or CV-blind recruitment, when in reality, they are after a particular kind of future trainee. I don’t think it’s unusual or unreasonable at all for a firm like Ropes & Gray to want to hire from certain elite RG universities, but for the firm to make it seem like they don’t adopt this policy (when it very clearly does), is highly misleading. 🤷🏾‍♂️

I’m not sure what you mean here: “universities are not a private school - they are a symbol of high academic performance and commitments to extra curriculars from a young age. People of all backgrounds have worked hard for a place at a top university, not handed it based on socio-economic factors.” Some people come from backgrounds where they don’t have access to certain resources due to financial constraints. That’s the reality for the majority of the UK population. As a result, these top RG universities make contextual offers. To imply someone who comes from this background (like myself) had their university place handed to them because of their background is crazy lmao. I had 3 RG uni offers based on the fact I had the grades. 🙂​

Where is the implication I made that you had your university place handed to you? You’ve literally proved my point - universities make contextual offers so all universities are accessible to all.

 

[Maddy]

Might be of interest to anyone waiting to hear back from P,W - when I selected my interview slot, there were only three slots available. But they could obv open up more slots

Did you receive the invite today?

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

It looks like my application season for this year might be over with no VS/TC offers. I have good A-Level marks (4xA*) and a (non-law) degree from Oxford and lots of extra-curriculars. I think my biggest weakness in my applications is a lack of legal-specific experience, for most of university I believed that I wanted to work as an economist so I didn't accumulate much of the CV law-stuff.

After doing lots of research over the last few months, I am certain that I want to work in commercial and competition law so will reapply next year. Does anyone have any tips of what I could do between now and then, as a graduate student, to improve my chances for next year. Specifically how can one gain the relevant experience? It feels really hard to get any real insight into commercial work when you're not already working at a commercial firm (a very draining catch-22).

Good luck everyone!

Hiya @4275purplerainbow

Just wanted to chime in and offer some support. Although I'm sure @Andrei Radu @Amma Usman and @Jessica Booker would also have more to add here. I completely sympathise with your point about the challenges faced by non-law students. Non-law graduates often struggle in the application process because they may have less exposure to legal practice areas and may find it harder to demonstrate a clear understanding of a firm’s work. In recent cycles, I've read posts by many non-law students on TCLA who've mentioned how difficult they find it to articulate why they're interested in commercial law (beyond the general idea that it involves businesses and transactions). That said, it's important to note that the cycle isn't over and it's completely possible for you to secure a TC through a direct training contract application.

In my own case, I came to commercial law from a completely different background. But I think there are several ways you can strengthen your profile before reapplying next year. I found attending insight and open days extremely helpful in allowing me to start gaining a sense of different firms and their specialities, as well as where they sat in the broader market.

I'd also recommend gaining practical experience in a legal setting, though this isn’t strictly necessary. For me, this was largely done by working in legal clinics during my studies and on pro bono projects alongside lawyers from large commercial firms. But you can also start applying for paralegal roles or even business development and compliance roles. I've generally found that many places are open to hiring graduates from diverse backgrounds for these kinds of roles.

One area that I think many, many applicants struggle with is commercial awareness. I'm really pleased that more people are recognising how challenging this can be for applicants. I'd highly recommend reading through ZipLaw, LittleLaw and also reviewing any TCLA threads on commercial awareness. Most law students often find it difficult to really draw out the financial, economic, and political implications of certain stories and trends. Given that your background is in econ, I think it's worthwhile thinking more about the legal aspects of the stories/trends that you're interested in. This could help ensure that your commercial awareness is more targeted to the legal profession and focussed on what lawyers do.

These are just some ideas that I wanted to send across, but I really think you can get that training contract. Keep at it and let us know if you have any questions about firms you can apply to for a direct training contract during this cycle

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

Where is the implication I made that you had your university place handed to you? You’ve literally proved my point - universities make contextual offers so all universities are accessible to all.

I think what he means by 'accessibility' is the financial aspect of attending. For me personally, my dad lost his job around the time I was applying to unis and so, even though I got into one of the top unis in my home country, I decided to attend a lower-ranked one so that I wouldn't have to factor in living costs. So even if people get offers to places like Oxbridge, without a full residential scholarship, it might be difficult for someone of a lower socioeconomic background who's from a different part of the country to take up the place.

 

[londonlawyer]

Did you receive the invite today?

Wednesday

 

[xanderlawyer]

I think what he means by 'accessibility' is the financial aspect of attending. For me personally, my dad lost his job around the time I was applying to unis and so, even though I got into one of the top unis in my home country, I decided to attend a lower-ranked one so that I wouldn't have to factor in living costs. So even if people get offers to places like Oxbridge, without a full residential scholarship, it might be difficult for someone of a lower socioeconomic background who's from a different part of the country to take up the place.

I understand and I am sorry to hear that. Maybe this is an area that can be improved in the student finance system and increase the number of scholarships. I would hate for someone to work so hard and have to settle for a lower-ranked / unpreferred university because of financial reasons.

 

[buggy]

It looks like my application season for this year might be over with no VS/TC offers. I have good A-Level marks (4xA*) and a (non-law) degree from Oxford and lots of extra-curriculars. I think my biggest weakness in my applications is a lack of legal-specific experience, for most of university I believed that I wanted to work as an economist so I didn't accumulate much of the CV law-stuff.

After doing lots of research over the last few months, I am certain that I want to work in commercial and competition law so will reapply next year. Does anyone have any tips of what I could do between now and then, as a graduate student, to improve my chances for next year. Specifically how can one gain the relevant experience? It feels really hard to get any real insight into commercial work when you're not already working at a commercial firm (a very draining catch-22).

Good luck everyone!

Hi, just my two cents.

Firstly, impressive list of achievements! Definitely achievements that would be attractive to the very best law firms

Secondly, I really do not think you *need* legal experience to get a TC and definitely wouldn't need that to get a VS offer. I have attended so many law firm events where lawyers/grad rec reiterate the fact that they know getting legal experience is difficult. What they look for is a manifest interest in commercial law and sharp intellect (through good grades, which you clearly demonstrate).

To demonstrate an interest in commercial law, what I did was to attend a bunch of insight events. I think I attended about 20 events the past two years. Look to apply for competitive insight days as well. I also completed forage internships. This was enough to get me a TC interview invite at Slaughter and May. I had not done a VS before this interview. Of course, it is important to be able to speak about what you learned from these and how they reinforced your interest in commercial law.

Secondly, I think you should be able to show transferable skills. i.e.:how are the things you have already accomplished relevant to law/ how would they make you a good lawyer? In doing this, you would show that you actually know the role of a lawyer and have thought deeply about it- making it clear that this new career trajectory isn't just a whim which can easily change.

There are lots of interconnections between law and economics and so I do think it would be quite easy to come up with a compelling 'why law?' response which shows clear reasoning.

I hope this is useful. Goodluck!

(I also came from a quasi-economics background and have now gotten MC offers this cycle, so just know this is very doable!).

 

[Katy12345]

Grad rec trying to do damage control when it’s so much better to be honest and transparent about it. I went to a semi-top RG but I went there solely because it was the closest RG to where I live. I wasn’t in a financial position of moving really far from home. Of course I loved my uni and course but my options were quite limited. It’s sad that people with potential are immediately rejected because they didn’t go Oxbridge/LSE/Imperial. It’s minor though it’s their loss at the end of the day. 🥲🥲​

One of their current trainees went to the University of Manchester so I definitely think they consider RG’s especially as they are a sponsor of MULS

 

[l789]

Hi, just my two cents.

Firstly, impressive list of achievements! Definitely achievements that would be attractive to the very best law firms

Secondly, I really do not think you *need* legal experience to get a TC and definitely wouldn't need that to get a VS offer. I have attended so many law firm events where lawyers/grad rec reiterate the fact that they know getting legal experience is difficult. What they look for is a manifest interest in commercial law and sharp intellect (through good grades, which you clearly demonstrate).

To demonstrate an interest in commercial law, what I did was to attend a bunch of insight events. I think I attended about 20 events the past two years. Look to apply for competitive insight days as well. I also completed forage internships. This was enough to get me a TC interview invite at Slaughter and May. I had not done a VS before this interview. Of course, it is important to be able to speak about what you learned from these and how they reinforced your interest in commercial law.

Secondly, I think you should be able to show transferable skills. i.e.:how are the things you have already accomplished relevant to law/ how would they make you a good lawyer? In doing this, you would show that you actually know the role of a lawyer and have thought deeply about it- making it clear that this new career trajectory isn't just a whim which can easily change.

There are lots of interconnections between law and economics and so I do think it would be quite easy to come up with a compelling 'why law?' response which shows clear reasoning.

I hope this is useful. Goodluck!

(I also came from a quasi-economics background and have now gotten MC offers this cycle, so just know this is very doable!).

Amazing … congratulations!

Thank you for sharing this

 

[buggy]

Amazing … congratulations!

Thank you for sharing this

Welcome!

 

[VVV]

Anyone heard from W&C post AC this week?

 

[VMS]

Update just received my 8th this week 😂

I'm so sorry, it's such a shame that all of those have come at once. I hope you have a much better weekend and have the time to take a break from apps!

 

[Jessica Booker]

I understand and I am sorry to hear that. Maybe this is an area that can be improved in the student finance system and increase the number of scholarships. I would hate for someone to work so hard and have to settle for a lower-ranked / unpreferred university because of financial reasons.

There are hundreds of thousands of domestic students who do this each year.

50% of first degree students attend a university in their home region. Not all will do this for financial reasons, some will also do it on purpose to remain close to home - for instance you see a much higher proportion of domestic ethnic minority students attend a local university than you do white counterparts, especially certain female ethnic minorities who typically will have higher family demands to stay local.

So for many it’s just not easy to up and move to a well respected university elsewhere in the country.

It’s great if you live in London or other major U.K. cities where you may have options to go to a local university that is highly respected, but if you live in places like Hull, Falmouth, Bangor, Grimsby, travelling hundreds of miles to your nearest “highly ranked” uni is just not an option for many.

 

[Chris Brown]

Where is the implication I made that you had your university place handed to you? You’ve literally proved my point - universities make contextual offers so all universities are accessible to all.

Universities aren’t accessible to all though. My point was that some people have the potential to succeed at elite RG universities and have the academic grades to meet their entry requirements, but due to financial circumstances, they are unable to access these institutions due to the higher costs of living. As a result, they end up going to their local university (often a non-RG). I was fortunate in that I had a RG uni closer to my hometown (one of my offers), so I went there and loved my time there as well. It’s still considered a mid-tier RG, but I don’t think anybody would consider it on the same level as say Oxford, Cambridge or LSE.

For a law firm to only accept applications from these certain elite universities knowing that talent isn’t limited to just Oxbridge or LSE, for example, is unfair in my opinion. I have seen people with A*AA at A-level and they went to their local university. A firm like Ropes & Gray seems to have the policy that if someone isn’t a student or graduate of an elite RG, it’s an automatic rejection. I don’t think that’s the fairest policy to have. I think what needs to be seen is universities offering more needs-based scholarships. That way, the best students are gaining entry into these elite institutions (regardless of their background). This isn’t reality right now. Whilst contextual offers help remove some of the barriers to entry, there is so much more that needs to be done in my opinion.​

 

[A worried graduate]

Can anyone tell me if I should begin to look at direct TCs or go for the Vac Schemes that are left?

I have no paralegal experience if that is of relevance.

 

[Broadwater]

Universities aren’t accessible to all though. My point was that some people have the potential to succeed at elite RG universities and have the academic grades to meet their entry requirements, but due to financial circumstances, they are unable to access these institutions due to the higher costs of living. As a result, they end up going to their local university (often a non-RG). I was fortunate in that I had a RG uni closer to my hometown (one of my offers), so I went there and loved my time there as well. It’s still considered a mid-tier RG, but I don’t think anybody would consider it on the same level as say Oxford, Cambridge or LSE.

For a law firm to only accept applications from these certain elite universities knowing that talent isn’t limited to just Oxbridge or LSE, for example, is unfair in my opinion. I have seen people with A*AA at A-level and they went to their local university. A firm like Ropes & Gray seems to have the policy that if someone isn’t a student or graduate of an elite RG, it’s an automatic rejection. I don’t think that’s the fairest policy to have. I think what needs to be seen is universities offering more needs-based scholarships. That way, the best students are gaining entry into these elite institutions (regardless of their background). This isn’t reality right now. Whilst contextual offers help remove some of the barriers to entry, there is so much more that needs to be done in my opinion.​

I know for a fact that one of the vacation schemes last year had 1/3 Non-RG attendees

 

[RSK]

anyone still waiting to hear back from latham?

 

[Chris Brown]

I know for a fact that one of the vacation schemes last year had 1/3 Non-RG attendees

Were the non-RG attendees from St Andrews, Bath and Loughborough? If so, it’s pretty much the same difference. If not, then that’s good to hear honestly. I wonder how many of the non-RG VS’ received TC offers though. Most of the current and future trainees I have come across on LinkedIn went to Oxbridge, Durham, LSE, KCL and UCL. 🥲​

 

[CCLaw]

anyone still waiting to hear back from latham?

I submitted my application in November after attending their open day; at this point I feel like giving up. This waiting game is actually killing me.