TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Jessica Booker]

Question for anyone who has been to an AC/VS who is not a second year uni student:
Have you ever been questioned by fellow applicants about your age/the fact that you're 'older'/'later in progress' than they are?
My reason for asking is that I had an experience where my peers (all in their second year of uni + i was passed that) were bewildered by my age etc. It was quite tricky fending off questions about why I was 'still' applying/hadn't had any success. It was obviously quite demoralising for myself to handle but I pulled through.
Perhaps it was just that they happened to be young and innocent - unaware of the reality that many people don't get VS/TCs in their second year. However, I'm worried that since I'll be adding yet another year on by next cycle, such experiences will only get worse.
Hoping for some reassurance/anecdotes about how my bad experience was an anomaly 😅
Thanks guys

This is a them problem not a you problem. They are going to have a bit of a wake up call when they have to start working with people of all ages in a law firm, including trainees and junior qualified lawyer.

This just shows a lot of naivety and immaturity in them in my opinion!

 

[austinfriar]

Well done both; I received a PFO - it's nice when firms send out PFO & progress at the same time instead of leaving future PFO-holders in the dark!

I have neither yet eeek

 

[g.cl.2020344]

LOL @ Latham who invited their upcoming spring VS cohort to the event yesterday to network when so many of us are still waiting to hear back post app/SJT. SO CHEEKY!!!

I had to ask what that meant for us who received holding emails. Was told the spring cohort is not completely filled and they may still get back to us in the next 2 weeks to hold AC's. Cutting it a bit short imo. was also told if we applied for spring it would be for spring and we would not be considered for summer or anything like that. Would much rather they just PFO than keep us in limbo like this

hopefully this means that we can hear back from Lathams soon!!! did their test and VI 4th dec!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey guys, so I had a couple of questions relating to the SQE. Would appreciate any advice/insight from @Jessica Booker @Ram Sabaratnam @Andrei Radu, and anyone else!

- So, as someone who started their LLB in 2020 and graduated in 2023, I know that I'm part of the last cohort who would be able to still do the LPC. I've asked some firms if this would mean I would have to do the SQE 2 with them, and most of the responses I got were that they "would review this on a case-by-case basis." Is that essentially a nice way of saying you'll probably have to do the SQE 2, or could there be scope to give genuine reasons to persuade them not to do it? And if so, how could I go about this/what could I say/what angle could I take?

- Secondly, I would still be a suitable or desirable candidate for a training contract at these international firms if I had done some paralegalling and counted that for the QWE part of the SQE. Alternatively, would they prefer a candidate with no QWE so that this can be filled in if a training contract is secured at the firm?

- Thirdly, correct me if I'm wrong, but if I qualify through QWE for the SQE (by paralegalling for e.g., not by securing a TC), I would therefore be eligible to start looking for NQ roles. My question is 1) Would I simply be able to apply for NQ roles in areas of law that interest me (providing I justify that interest etc) or am I limited to some? and 2) Would qualifying this way make me a less desirable candidate in recruiters' eyes compared to those who have secured TC's?

- If you do the SQE but have no QWE, would firms be reluctant to take you on?

I hope this makes sense! Just trying to make sense of things as I'm planning my next career steps.

1) It’s just being non committal. The last thing they want is to bring in a whole load of trainees on the SQE and then for some random reason bring in a trainee on a LPC training contract (maybe mitigating circumstances) and everyone else to complain why they didn’t get that opportunity. I can’t really see firms offering the LPC route any more though - it’s a lot more hassle for them as there are many more regulations and processes they have to go through. I don’t know what angle there would be for arguing against completing SQE2 when everyone else is doing that stage, and especially where some of the diversity concerns with the SQE are much more associated with SQE1.

2) Firms generally don’t want trainees submitting their previous experiences as QWE, as it undermines their training contract. Unfortunately firms have little control over it though as the decision lies with you rather than them.

3) People are qualifying via the QWE/SQE route. But I am seeing plenty do people choosing to do this when they haven’t got an NQ role lined up. To be able to compete in the NQ job market, your two years of QWE needs to be of the same level, complexity, standard, variety and possible even with the same type of clients as those you will be competing for the NQ role with. You are not going to be able to step into a litigation role without litigation experience. You are going to struggle to get into large international firms if most of the litigation work you have done is with smaller, domestic companies or simple disputes. You therefore have to make sure your QWE allows you to compete for the jobs you are aiming for upon qualification.

 

[VacSchemer]

hopefully this means that we can hear back from Lathams soon!!! did their test and VI 4th dec!

lol I applied for summer…I’ll be waiting an eternity then

 

[LawJ]

Question for anyone who has been to an AC/VS who is not a second year uni student:
Have you ever been questioned by fellow applicants about your age/the fact that you're 'older'/'later in progress' than they are?
My reason for asking is that I had an experience where my peers (all in their second year of uni + i was passed that) were bewildered by my age etc. It was quite tricky fending off questions about why I was 'still' applying/hadn't had any success. It was obviously quite demoralising for myself to handle but I pulled through.
Perhaps it was just that they happened to be young and innocent - unaware of the reality that many people don't get VS/TCs in their second year. However, I'm worried that since I'll be adding yet another year on by next cycle, such experiences will only get worse.
Hoping for some reassurance/anecdotes about how my bad experience was an anomaly 😅
Thanks guys

I have a friend who qualified last year at Macfarlanes. Though she had secured the TC via VS in her second year, she was one of the youngest in her cohort. The majority of trainees were graduates who had been working for a couple of years prior to the TC. Of course, this is not the case for all cohorts or for all firms, but you should never think you're too old!

 

[Chris Brown]

I was on LinkedIn before and I came across a link to a TCLA YouTube video with Jaysen (TCLA) and Gemma (Willkie). In this application cycle, they received just under 1,400 applications (1,396), which is crazy for only 20 VS places and 6-7 TC offers. 😦

I imagine if 25% were moved to the VI stage, that would be roughly 350 people. If 25% were moved to WE, that would mean between 80-90 of us have done the WE (out of 1400). That is actually mad when put into perspective! These numbers are scary. 🥲​

 

[Jessica Booker]

I was on LinkedIn before and I came across a TCLA YouTube video with Jaysen (TCLA) and Gemma (Willkie). In this application cycle, they received just under 1,400 applications (1,396), which is crazy for only 20 VS places and 6-7 TC offers. 😦

I imagine if 25% were moved to the VI stage, that would be roughly 350 people. If 25% were moved to WE, that would mean between 80-90 have done the WE (out of 1400). That is mad when put into perspective! 🥲​

To me it’s impressive when Gemma is managing that entire process on her own!

 

[VMS]

Hi - would you mind also sharing with me? I am also struggling with what to write in an application. Thank. you!

Hey, would it be possible for you to share them with me as well? Thank you!!!!

PM'd you both. I was only PM'ing as I thought that would be easier than taking over the forum with a conversation, haha.

 

[Legallywhatever]

Question for anyone who has been to an AC/VS who is not a second year uni student:
Have you ever been questioned by fellow applicants about your age/the fact that you're 'older'/'later in progress' than they are?
My reason for asking is that I had an experience where my peers (all in their second year of uni + i was passed that) were bewildered by my age etc. It was quite tricky fending off questions about why I was 'still' applying/hadn't had any success. It was obviously quite demoralising for myself to handle but I pulled through.
Perhaps it was just that they happened to be young and innocent - unaware of the reality that many people don't get VS/TCs in their second year. However, I'm worried that since I'll be adding yet another year on by next cycle, such experiences will only get worse.
Hoping for some reassurance/anecdotes about how my bad experience was an anomaly 😅
Thanks guys

I just find it bizarre how (some) younger students act like it’s the strangest thing in the world to find people older than them applying to the same roles they’re applying for. And to make matters worse, they seem to have some innate urge to actively share with you their ‘wonder’ 😭

 

[Joshyf10]

Still no one heard back from goodwin post partner interview?

 

[Chris Brown]

To me it’s impressive when Gemma is managing that entire process on her own!

Gemma (Willkie) is the graduate recruitment GOAT. 🐐​

 

[NJS]

The basic distinction is that with debt financing a company will borrow money from a lender and will in return make a promise to return the initial borrowed sum + an agreed upon interest. With equity financing, the company gets money from an investor but never has to pay the investor back in return. Instead, in exchange for the money the investor gets equity in the company, which is just another term for shares in the company/a percentage of the ownership of the company. Equity financing always takes place when a private company goes public, in that the company issues shares to the public through an IPO and in exchange gets capital which can be used for further growth. However, equity company can also be used by a private company in a private transaction, when existing shareholders agree to sell a part of their shares or issue new shares to a particular investor/group of investors.

To look in more detail at debt financing, the main two methods to obtain it are loans (normally taken from a bank) and bonds (which can be issued to any investors). The difference is that loans normally have to be repaid on a monthly period (the borrower pays a proportional part of the total borrowed sum + interest) while with bonds, the issuer (ie the company that borrowed the money) only has to make the interest payments on a regular basis - the initial borrowed sum (or "the principal") is paid all at once at the end of the agreed upon repayment period (the "maturity date"). While there are a number of other differences that are relevant in assessing the pros/cons of using loans or bonds, for the sake of comparison with equity financing I will look at only advantages and disadvantages that equally apply to both. It should be noted however that in PE generally and for buyouts in particular PE firms normally use highly leveraged loans. Essentially, to minimize the amount of investor capital spent on any transaction (and thus to maximize the total number of profitable transactions a given fund can enter into), a PE firm will normally finance around 75-80% of the cost of a buyout by getting a loan from a bank and then offering as security the assets of the target company itself.

Now, to list some of the main advantages of debt financing I can think of:

• Allows the company (and the controlling PE firm) to keep compete control of the target company. This is particularly important for the PE firm to be able to implement its growth/efficiency improvement plans and its desired exit strategy.
• Allows the PE firm to keep all the dividends and profits from selling the company later on.
• It is often makes for a simpler and more standard negotiation process both for the financing deal and for the actual buyout. For an industry like PE where deals tend to be very fast paced and where targets normally have a number of suitors, this is also a benefit that should not be understated.
• Interest payments are tax-deductible.

Whereas the main advantages of equity financing are:

• It does not add any financial burdens on the target company. This means it should have more capital which can go towards investments in growth rather than repayment of debt. It also decreases risks of insolvency.
• It often means working with institutional investors or huge corporates with significant resources and expertise, which can make them invaluable partners for growing a business. A very successful example of such a relationship is that between Open AI and Microsoft.

what resources do you need to know this? @Andrei Radu , I just had an interview where this would've been super useful, but just my luck I didnt read the forum this morning so i f*cked that lol

 

[KBanana]

@Jessica Booker @Amma Usman
Is the TCLA academy a separate subscription to TCLA premium?

Thanks!

 

[legaleagle11]

I got asked a similar question at my V&E interview on Monday - how would I feel about being on the VS or a trainee with people straight from uni given that I have lots of paralegal etc experience.

Hi! Sorry but can I ask if this is for spring/summer? I completed the VI but haven't heard back

 

[James Wakefield]

To me it’s impressive when Gemma is managing that entire process on her own!

A possible alternative to getting a training contract might be a job application to graduate recruitment at Willkie. They must be thinking of employing a team to help Gemma surely!

 

[Reem2024]

Hi @Ram Sabaratnam @Amma Usman @Andrei Radu ,

If asked in an AC interview:

Why linklaters (both in the middle east and the UK)?
How does linklaters stand out from other firms (or magic circle firms)?

How should I answer it? I got feedback from an AC that my biggest let down was the fact that my reasons for why the firm were not strong. Thank you!

 

[desperateTCseeker1998]

PW interview this morning!

Congrats! Definitely staggered then!

 

[ashwright]

In my experience, it was strange when there was a second year uni student. Most of the people there were either 3rd year law students or graduates

Rude! Your age is none of their business.

I recently went to an AC that was actually quite eye opening because of the mix of people. There were 2nd year undergrads, graduates and some people who had been paralegals for 5+ years and worked in other industries. I actually found the latter most intimidating! So it didn't feel strange at all to be a few years post graduation. Depending on the firm, its your experience that allows you to do better at AC, and degree of maturity.

This is a them problem not a you problem. They are going to have a bit of a wake up call when they have to start working with people of all ages in a law firm, including trainees and junior qualified lawyer.

This just shows a lot of naivety and immaturity in them in my opinion!

I have a friend who qualified last year at Macfarlanes. Though she had secured the TC via VS in her second year, she was one of the youngest in her cohort. The majority of trainees were graduates who had been working for a couple of years prior to the TC. Of course, this is not the case for all cohorts or for all firms, but you should never think you're too old!

I just find it bizarre how (some) younger students act like it’s the strangest thing in the world to find people older than them applying to the same roles they’re applying for. And to make matters worse, they seem to have some innate urge to actively share with you their ‘wonder’ 😭

Thank you all for the reassurance - it honestly means a lot. The experience happened a few months ago, right at the beginning of this app cycle but the feelings stayed with me since. having received yet another batch of PFOs means that they resurfaced. I am wholeheartedly so grateful to you guys - your support has put to bed that lingering feeling of self-doubt.
Looking forward to improving for next cycle. Onwards + upwards.

 

[sapphireoreos]

Question for anyone who has been to an AC/VS who is not a second year uni student:
Have you ever been questioned by fellow applicants about your age/the fact that you're 'older'/'later in progress' than they are?
My reason for asking is that I had an experience where my peers (all in their second year of uni + i was passed that) were bewildered by my age etc. It was quite tricky fending off questions about why I was 'still' applying/hadn't had any success. It was obviously quite demoralising for myself to handle but I pulled through.
Perhaps it was just that they happened to be young and innocent - unaware of the reality that many people don't get VS/TCs in their second year. However, I'm worried that since I'll be adding yet another year on by next cycle, such experiences will only get worse.
Hoping for some reassurance/anecdotes about how my bad experience was an anomaly 😅
Thanks guys

I went to an AC recently and I think I only met one person who was in their second year of uni. Everyone else were final years, grads, postgrads, career changers or working, so don't worry! I think this also depends on what type of firm you apply to. From what I've heard, AC candidates at MC firms typically tend to skew younger (especially something like Clifford Chance and its SPARK scheme)