TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Jessica Booker]

What would you say in relation to competition for certain seats (e.g., international arbitration) at Freshfields, given the firm has an eight-seat trainee associate programme. If each intake has 40-50 trainees (two cohorts per year) and for each seat rotation, a vast majority of trainees expressed interest in wanting to do a seat in international arbitration, how would the firm navigate this? If the firm prioritised those in their second year of the TC (5th - 8th seat), would it be possible that by the time a 1st seat trainee goes through their entire training contract, the vast majority of trainees in their cohort will have experienced at least 3 months (one seat) in the international arbitration practice? To my understanding, Freshfields allows people to double up on a seat (6 months), so would this give those people an advantage over those that only did 3 months?

When it comes to qualification, would it be possible that there would be a significant number of trainees (out of 40-50) who were interested in qualifying into international arbitration (given they’d probably experienced it at least once during their TC)? Would this then mean it’s more competitive at a firm like Freshfields to enter a practice like international arbitration compared to a firm like Debevoise which has a standard four seat TC rotation and one trainee intake/qualifying period, with a smaller intake of around 10 trainees? Im just wondering that if I were to apply for the WVS at a firm like Freshfields next application cycle, would I find it harder to experience seats of interest and qualify into a practice area of interest compared to a US firm with a smaller cohort of trainees.​

The firm is more likely to offer 3 instead of 6 month seats for more competitive/in demand departments, but there is no guarantee of that. Some departments know that six months is really needed for trainees to get involved and if they say they want trainees for six months instead of three, that could happen no matter what the demand is. The eight-seat training contract is a bit of a marketing ploy by Freshfields to differentiate itself. Reality is most trainees end up doing 4-6 seats.

I must stress the vast majority of trainees would want to do IA at a firm like Freshfields. The firm would be tactical in recruiting people with broad interests. It was fairly common for trainees to never do a contentious seat and go on a contentious course instead (under the old qualification system), and that's not even taking into account trainees who have other "competitive" seat preferences like competition or IP. Unlike a IA focused firm, a lot of trainees will have no interest in that area of work. Given this, there would never be a huge number of people gunning for an IA seat - as I mentioned earlier, at best I would bet this is less than 10 people per intake, and could easily be less than five. And obviously there could be more than one IA NQ role, especially if there are opportunities outside of London too (e.g. I saw Paris take on an English NQ at least once).

There are too many variables to even try and calculate which firm would have the better chances. The only data really worthwhile looking at is historic number of seats per rotation and how many NQ roles there have been each year. If both of those numbers are fairly stable over a period of 5-6 years then you can get a reasonable gauge of what your chances might be. But for many firms they will fluctuate so much it would be very difficult to know what would happen during your TC, let alone when it comes to your qualification. By the time you get to that point, you also may have no interest in IA at all anyway.

Performance will always win out over experience when it comes to qualification chances. Someone with a exceptional rating in a three month seat is far more likely to secure a NQ role than someone who has done well over a six month seat.

 

[lawstudent2]

I think applications normally open in Sept for each year and most Open Days take place around Nov/Dec.

Some VS applications open in Aug for WVS and close in Sept (A&O Shearman, Ashurst, Freshfields, etc). 🙂

Spring and Summer VS applications normally open in Sept/Oct and close in Dec/Jan. 🙂​

amazing thank you

 

[pcarey]

Has anyone received a rejection from the Mishcon summer vacation scheme?

I understand that some invites for the VI were sent out yesterday but I haven't received an invite or rejection. Other users seem to be in the same boat.

Could it be that they are staggering invites so as to not be overloaded in the week to come? This would make sense given they have not been able to stick to their original timeline due to the volume of applications they received.

 

[ashwright]

Question for anyone who has been to an AC/VS who is not a second year uni student:
Have you ever been questioned by fellow applicants about your age/the fact that you're 'older'/'later in progress' than they are?
My reason for asking is that I had an experience where my peers (all in their second year of uni + i was passed that) were bewildered by my age etc. It was quite tricky fending off questions about why I was 'still' applying/hadn't had any success. It was obviously quite demoralising for myself to handle but I pulled through.
Perhaps it was just that they happened to be young and innocent - unaware of the reality that many people don't get VS/TCs in their second year. However, I'm worried that since I'll be adding yet another year on by next cycle, such experiences will only get worse.
Hoping for some reassurance/anecdotes about how my bad experience was an anomaly 😅
Thanks guys

 

[Rus]

Question for anyone who has been to an AC/VS who is not a second year uni student:
Have you ever been questioned by fellow applicants about your age/the fact that you're 'older'/'later in progress' than they are?
My reason for asking is that I had an experience where my peers (all in their second year of uni + i was passed that) were bewildered by my age etc. It was quite tricky fending off questions about why I was 'still' applying/hadn't had any success. It was obviously quite demoralising for myself to handle but I pulled through.
Perhaps it was just that they happened to be young and innocent - unaware of the reality that many people don't get VS/TCs in their second year. However, I'm worried that since I'll be adding yet another year on by next cycle, such experiences will only get worse.
Hoping for some reassurance/anecdotes about how my bad experience was an anomaly 😅
Thanks guys

In my experience, it was strange when there was a second year uni student. Most of the people there were either 3rd year law students or graduates

 

[Bread]

Question for anyone who has been to an AC/VS who is not a second year uni student:
Have you ever been questioned by fellow applicants about your age/the fact that you're 'older'/'later in progress' than they are?
My reason for asking is that I had an experience where my peers (all in their second year of uni + i was passed that) were bewildered by my age etc. It was quite tricky fending off questions about why I was 'still' applying/hadn't had any success. It was obviously quite demoralising for myself to handle but I pulled through.
Perhaps it was just that they happened to be young and innocent - unaware of the reality that many people don't get VS/TCs in their second year. However, I'm worried that since I'll be adding yet another year on by next cycle, such experiences will only get worse.
Hoping for some reassurance/anecdotes about how my bad experience was an anomaly 😅
Thanks guys

Rude! Your age is none of their business.

 

[jasonbourne]

Hey guys, so I had a couple of questions relating to the SQE. Would appreciate any advice/insight from @Jessica Booker @Ram Sabaratnam @Andrei Radu, and anyone else!

- So, as someone who started their LLB in 2020 and graduated in 2023, I know that I'm part of the last cohort who would be able to still do the LPC. I've asked some firms if this would mean I would have to do the SQE 2 with them, and most of the responses I got were that they "would review this on a case-by-case basis." Is that essentially a nice way of saying you'll probably have to do the SQE 2, or could there be scope to give genuine reasons to persuade them not to do it? And if so, how could I go about this/what could I say/what angle could I take?

- Secondly, I would still be a suitable or desirable candidate for a training contract at these international firms if I had done some paralegalling and counted that for the QWE part of the SQE. Alternatively, would they prefer a candidate with no QWE so that this can be filled in if a training contract is secured at the firm?

- Thirdly, correct me if I'm wrong, but if I qualify through QWE for the SQE (by paralegalling for e.g., not by securing a TC), I would therefore be eligible to start looking for NQ roles. My question is 1) Would I simply be able to apply for NQ roles in areas of law that interest me (providing I justify that interest etc) or am I limited to some? and 2) Would qualifying this way make me a less desirable candidate in recruiters' eyes compared to those who have secured TC's?

- If you do the SQE but have no QWE, would firms be reluctant to take you on?

I hope this makes sense! Just trying to make sense of things as I'm planning my next career steps.

 

[James Wakefield]

Question for anyone who has been to an AC/VS who is not a second year uni student:
Have you ever been questioned by fellow applicants about your age/the fact that you're 'older'/'later in progress' than they are?
My reason for asking is that I had an experience where my peers (all in their second year of uni + i was passed that) were bewildered by my age etc. It was quite tricky fending off questions about why I was 'still' applying/hadn't had any success. It was obviously quite demoralising for myself to handle but I pulled through.
Perhaps it was just that they happened to be young and innocent - unaware of the reality that many people don't get VS/TCs in their second year. However, I'm worried that since I'll be adding yet another year on by next cycle, such experiences will only get worse.
Hoping for some reassurance/anecdotes about how my bad experience was an anomaly 😅
Thanks guys

I recently went to an AC that was actually quite eye opening because of the mix of people. There were 2nd year undergrads, graduates and some people who had been paralegals for 5+ years and worked in other industries. I actually found the latter most intimidating! So it didn't feel strange at all to be a few years post graduation. Depending on the firm, its your experience that allows you to do better at AC, and degree of maturity.

 

[Ricky]

Question for anyone who has been to an AC/VS who is not a second year uni student:
Have you ever been questioned by fellow applicants about your age/the fact that you're 'older'/'later in progress' than they are?
My reason for asking is that I had an experience where my peers (all in their second year of uni + i was passed that) were bewildered by my age etc. It was quite tricky fending off questions about why I was 'still' applying/hadn't had any success. It was obviously quite demoralising for myself to handle but I pulled through.
Perhaps it was just that they happened to be young and innocent - unaware of the reality that many people don't get VS/TCs in their second year. However, I'm worried that since I'll be adding yet another year on by next cycle, such experiences will only get worse.
Hoping for some reassurance/anecdotes about how my bad experience was an anomaly 😅
Thanks guys

I got asked a similar question at my V&E interview on Monday - how would I feel about being on the VS or a trainee with people straight from uni given that I have lots of paralegal etc experience.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Question for anyone who has been to an AC/VS who is not a second year uni student:
Have you ever been questioned by fellow applicants about your age/the fact that you're 'older'/'later in progress' than they are?
My reason for asking is that I had an experience where my peers (all in their second year of uni + i was passed that) were bewildered by my age etc. It was quite tricky fending off questions about why I was 'still' applying/hadn't had any success. It was obviously quite demoralising for myself to handle but I pulled through.
Perhaps it was just that they happened to be young and innocent - unaware of the reality that many people don't get VS/TCs in their second year. However, I'm worried that since I'll be adding yet another year on by next cycle, such experiences will only get worse.
Hoping for some reassurance/anecdotes about how my bad experience was an anomaly 😅
Thanks guys

This is a them problem not a you problem. They are going to have a bit of a wake up call when they have to start working with people of all ages in a law firm, including trainees and junior qualified lawyer.

This just shows a lot of naivety and immaturity in them in my opinion!

 

[austinfriar]

Well done both; I received a PFO - it's nice when firms send out PFO & progress at the same time instead of leaving future PFO-holders in the dark!

I have neither yet eeek

 

[g.cl.2020344]

LOL @ Latham who invited their upcoming spring VS cohort to the event yesterday to network when so many of us are still waiting to hear back post app/SJT. SO CHEEKY!!!

I had to ask what that meant for us who received holding emails. Was told the spring cohort is not completely filled and they may still get back to us in the next 2 weeks to hold AC's. Cutting it a bit short imo. was also told if we applied for spring it would be for spring and we would not be considered for summer or anything like that. Would much rather they just PFO than keep us in limbo like this

hopefully this means that we can hear back from Lathams soon!!! did their test and VI 4th dec!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey guys, so I had a couple of questions relating to the SQE. Would appreciate any advice/insight from @Jessica Booker @Ram Sabaratnam @Andrei Radu, and anyone else!

- So, as someone who started their LLB in 2020 and graduated in 2023, I know that I'm part of the last cohort who would be able to still do the LPC. I've asked some firms if this would mean I would have to do the SQE 2 with them, and most of the responses I got were that they "would review this on a case-by-case basis." Is that essentially a nice way of saying you'll probably have to do the SQE 2, or could there be scope to give genuine reasons to persuade them not to do it? And if so, how could I go about this/what could I say/what angle could I take?

- Secondly, I would still be a suitable or desirable candidate for a training contract at these international firms if I had done some paralegalling and counted that for the QWE part of the SQE. Alternatively, would they prefer a candidate with no QWE so that this can be filled in if a training contract is secured at the firm?

- Thirdly, correct me if I'm wrong, but if I qualify through QWE for the SQE (by paralegalling for e.g., not by securing a TC), I would therefore be eligible to start looking for NQ roles. My question is 1) Would I simply be able to apply for NQ roles in areas of law that interest me (providing I justify that interest etc) or am I limited to some? and 2) Would qualifying this way make me a less desirable candidate in recruiters' eyes compared to those who have secured TC's?

- If you do the SQE but have no QWE, would firms be reluctant to take you on?

I hope this makes sense! Just trying to make sense of things as I'm planning my next career steps.

1) It’s just being non committal. The last thing they want is to bring in a whole load of trainees on the SQE and then for some random reason bring in a trainee on a LPC training contract (maybe mitigating circumstances) and everyone else to complain why they didn’t get that opportunity. I can’t really see firms offering the LPC route any more though - it’s a lot more hassle for them as there are many more regulations and processes they have to go through. I don’t know what angle there would be for arguing against completing SQE2 when everyone else is doing that stage, and especially where some of the diversity concerns with the SQE are much more associated with SQE1.

2) Firms generally don’t want trainees submitting their previous experiences as QWE, as it undermines their training contract. Unfortunately firms have little control over it though as the decision lies with you rather than them.

3) People are qualifying via the QWE/SQE route. But I am seeing plenty do people choosing to do this when they haven’t got an NQ role lined up. To be able to compete in the NQ job market, your two years of QWE needs to be of the same level, complexity, standard, variety and possible even with the same type of clients as those you will be competing for the NQ role with. You are not going to be able to step into a litigation role without litigation experience. You are going to struggle to get into large international firms if most of the litigation work you have done is with smaller, domestic companies or simple disputes. You therefore have to make sure your QWE allows you to compete for the jobs you are aiming for upon qualification.

 

[VacSchemer]

hopefully this means that we can hear back from Lathams soon!!! did their test and VI 4th dec!

lol I applied for summer…I’ll be waiting an eternity then

 

[LawJ]

Question for anyone who has been to an AC/VS who is not a second year uni student:
Have you ever been questioned by fellow applicants about your age/the fact that you're 'older'/'later in progress' than they are?
My reason for asking is that I had an experience where my peers (all in their second year of uni + i was passed that) were bewildered by my age etc. It was quite tricky fending off questions about why I was 'still' applying/hadn't had any success. It was obviously quite demoralising for myself to handle but I pulled through.
Perhaps it was just that they happened to be young and innocent - unaware of the reality that many people don't get VS/TCs in their second year. However, I'm worried that since I'll be adding yet another year on by next cycle, such experiences will only get worse.
Hoping for some reassurance/anecdotes about how my bad experience was an anomaly 😅
Thanks guys

I have a friend who qualified last year at Macfarlanes. Though she had secured the TC via VS in her second year, she was one of the youngest in her cohort. The majority of trainees were graduates who had been working for a couple of years prior to the TC. Of course, this is not the case for all cohorts or for all firms, but you should never think you're too old!

 

[Chris Brown]

I was on LinkedIn before and I came across a link to a TCLA YouTube video with Jaysen (TCLA) and Gemma (Willkie). In this application cycle, they received just under 1,400 applications (1,396), which is crazy for only 20 VS places and 6-7 TC offers. 😦

I imagine if 25% were moved to the VI stage, that would be roughly 350 people. If 25% were moved to WE, that would mean between 80-90 of us have done the WE (out of 1400). That is actually mad when put into perspective! These numbers are scary. 🥲​

 

[Jessica Booker]

I was on LinkedIn before and I came across a TCLA YouTube video with Jaysen (TCLA) and Gemma (Willkie). In this application cycle, they received just under 1,400 applications (1,396), which is crazy for only 20 VS places and 6-7 TC offers. 😦

I imagine if 25% were moved to the VI stage, that would be roughly 350 people. If 25% were moved to WE, that would mean between 80-90 have done the WE (out of 1400). That is mad when put into perspective! 🥲​

To me it’s impressive when Gemma is managing that entire process on her own!

 

[VMS]

Hi - would you mind also sharing with me? I am also struggling with what to write in an application. Thank. you!

Hey, would it be possible for you to share them with me as well? Thank you!!!!

PM'd you both. I was only PM'ing as I thought that would be easier than taking over the forum with a conversation, haha.

 

[Legallywhatever]

Question for anyone who has been to an AC/VS who is not a second year uni student:
Have you ever been questioned by fellow applicants about your age/the fact that you're 'older'/'later in progress' than they are?
My reason for asking is that I had an experience where my peers (all in their second year of uni + i was passed that) were bewildered by my age etc. It was quite tricky fending off questions about why I was 'still' applying/hadn't had any success. It was obviously quite demoralising for myself to handle but I pulled through.
Perhaps it was just that they happened to be young and innocent - unaware of the reality that many people don't get VS/TCs in their second year. However, I'm worried that since I'll be adding yet another year on by next cycle, such experiences will only get worse.
Hoping for some reassurance/anecdotes about how my bad experience was an anomaly 😅
Thanks guys

I just find it bizarre how (some) younger students act like it’s the strangest thing in the world to find people older than them applying to the same roles they’re applying for. And to make matters worse, they seem to have some innate urge to actively share with you their ‘wonder’ 😭

 

[Joshyf10]

Still no one heard back from goodwin post partner interview?