I have no clue how to answer the 'why commercial law' question because my interest in the career is an accumulation of different experiences. For example, working with my parents on their legal immigration documents/ translating what the lawyers would say when we moved to the UK, as well as working with the family companies litigation cases that happened over the years/ hearing about them and the process which they decided to follow (based on the advice of the legal team). I feel like its not clear when I write it or seems uncertain. How would I best frame these to link to commercial law/ the work companies do?
You can just list it as a pass - the firm will be aware of the modules that only receive the competent grading and in this instance, a pass would be the best option to select.Hi,
I wondered how we should reflect our LPC results that are not graded or only have the grade "Competent"?
The application form says to put all my LPC results, but the answers allow either a grade percentage or a Distinction, Commendation, or Pass. However, certain modules are scored Competent/Not Competent.
How should I reflect the Competent? - [should I put the overall grade for the LPC, for example, Distinction, or just put Pass]?
can anyone applying to Davis Polk please confirm who we are addressing the cover letter to?
Thanks Amma!Hey @studentdelaw786 , I have tagged @Andrei Radu here as I’m sure he’ll have more thoughts on this.
Hi! Sorry to ask but was the platform in the email they send the test in? Or do you access it from their website? I’ve looked on their website but struggling to find a practice test.Hey I just used the test platform the firm gives you access to and did all the questions multiple times haha
I got the platform link in the emailHi! Sorry to ask but was the platform in the email they send the test in? Or do you access it from their website? I’ve looked on their website but struggling to find a practice test.![]()
Last year I addressed my cover letter to Davis Polk's training principal. The firm's current UK recruitment partner is Aaron Ferner, so you could address it to him. However, I do not think there will be an issue if you choose to use a more common form of address such as "Dear Graduate Recruitment Team" - especially since the applications are likely to be reviewed by other team members.can anyone applying to Davis Polk please confirm who we are addressing the cover letter to?
Hey @CarolineC just to add my thoughts to @Amma Usman's excellent response: I think you definitely can and in many cases should reduce the number of reasons you discuss - provided that the reasons that you do discuss, when taken into conjunction, suffice to the effect that they do not apply to any other firm to a greater extent. For instance, if say you are applying to Latham, I would say it does not suffice to only mention their PE strength as a reason for why the firm. This is because there are firms such a reason would apply to to an equal or even greater extent, such as Kirkland, Weil, and Simpson Thatcher. As such, you should have at least one additional reason for 'why Latham', such as their culture, global network of offices, and other London practice area strengths.Hey all, for VI - when responding to the question 'Why our firm?' I struggle to provide a thorough breakdown of 3 arguments (as I would do in a written response). I think all 3 which I want to mention are important, but I run out of time when trying to provide evidence of research/explanation. In a written response, it's easier to cut down the words/redact and make them fit within the word count.
What structure would you recommend for that question? Should we focus on a number of reasons (if so, are 2 sufficient?)?
You can then also limit on the depth of explanation of each point. For instance, for a 'why the firm' point, say you would normally go on an elaborated narrative as to how your interest in a given practice area originated, how you went about exploring it, how you then realised what are its substantive features that differentiate it from other practices and also attract you, and then explain who the given firm is a market leader in the practice area and is better than its rivals. Now, considering the time constraints and other questions you have to address, you should instead simply state something like 'The main reason I am attracted to your firm is it's strong X practice area, which is demonstrated by their Chambers and Legal 500 recognition. I am attracted to it because of Y (state distinguishing feature in a few words), as illustrated by Z experience (state the basic subject matter of the experience in a few words)'. This way, you should be able to formulate your point in 15-20 seconds.
So the way I interpret this is as a normal 'Why you' question. As such, I would basically follow the same structure as in a written 'Why you' answer:Any advice on how to answer why should we hire you as a trainee for a VI?
Thank you Andrei. This is helpful advice.Last year I addressed my cover letter to Davis Polk's training principal. The firm's current UK recruitment partner is Aaron Ferner, so you could address it to him. However, I do not think there will be an issue if you choose to use a more common form of address such as "Dear Graduate Recruitment Team" - especially since the applications are likely to be reviewed by other team members.
Hey @KBanana I think your approach is good but potentially not always optimal. As I see it, it works well as long as the firm you are currently applying to excels in the three practice areas you have identified to a greater or at least equal extent as all the other firms you end up mentioning. If there is any other firm that seems to do better in those areas, this will raise the question like 'why should you not prefer them over us?'.Hi @Ram Sabaratnam @Andrei Radu @Jessica Booker !
I am currently answering a 'Which other firms are you applying to and why? (Max 200 words)' question, and I would appreciate your feedback on my approach. Thank you 😊
I plan to discuss how, as part of my application strategy, I first prioritised firms with strengths in my key areas of interest. I would list the three practice areas I am interested in and outline that each firm I applied to excelled in at least two of them.
I would then discuss how my additional criteria included the DEI initiatives and trainee cohort sizes (linking this to training quality).
Would this approach be ok?
Also, for commercial questions such as 'Discuss a commercial issue that has particularly interested you...', is it ok to discuss a macroeconomic topic such as inflation? Is it a bad idea to do this, or does it depend on how I cover the issue?
Hi @LLB0711 that is a great question, and I actually have not seen any detailed discussion the topic. I think firms are looking for three main things in a candidate when asking the "what other firms have you applied to question":
1. Knowledge of the legal market: the firm wants to see that you have properly researched the legal market in the City and you know of the different positions and profiles of different firms. Whatever the criteria behind your application strategy (be it practice area or sector strengths, client base, mandates, international offices, size etc), your knowledge of the world of big law will be tested based on your ability to identify the other firms a relevant criterion applies to. This matters to the firm you are interviewing with for two reasons: (a) it evidences a real and constant interest in the world of commercial law, as learning about the different market positions of firms takes time; and (b) it evidences a more genuine interest in their firm, as it shows your application decisions were made from a well-informed perspective.
2. Genuineness of the stated motivations: this brings me to the second point, which is that the firm wants to see whether the reasons you stated for why the firm are genuine. By asking you what other firms you applied to (and potentially the follow-up as to why you chose them) the firm can ascertain the extent to which the underlying motivations behind the 'why the firm' reasons you presented to them also apply to the other choices. For instance, if you were interviewing with Kirkland and mentioned a PE interest as a motivation but then you did not apply to any of the other big names in PE (Latham, Weil, Willkie, Ropes & Gray, Clifford Chance), this might be problematic. Essentially, if the fundamental motivations for the firm cannot be tracked into your wider applications strategy, this could raise doubts as to your sincerity when formulating them. As such, I think most of the examples you list for other firms you applies to should be chosen with a view to being as compatible as possible with your stated motivations for why the firm.
That said, of course you can also be attracted to some different aspects in different firms at the same time while still being genuine. My only two points here are that: (a) there should not be a huge discrepancy in what is attractive to you - at least for most of the firm you list - and (b) that if there is a big motivational discrepancy, in that reasons A B C made you apply for the firm you are now interviewing with and completely different X Y Z reasons made you apply for another firm, you should be prepared to explain why from your point of view reasons A B C are more important and trump reasons X Y Z. Long story short, the outcome you want from this section is to have convinced the interviewer that no other firm scores overall better on a more important relevant set of criteria, which is to say that their firm scores best on your most important set of criteria.
3. Sensible career planning: finally, from my experience firms are also truly interested in whether you are a reflective and sensible person in your career pursuits. As such, you want to demonstrate a nuanced understanding of the pros/cons of different firms, you want the criteria you explain were relevant for you to actually be the type of considerations one can base such an important choice, you want to show you understood the competitive landscape of applications, and that you have pursued the goal of obtaining a TC at a top firm in a consistent and well-planned manner. These are all aspects that evidence you just being a thoughtful and careful person, qualities that are immensely important for a trainee solicitor.
An example of a bad answer that candidates sometimes gave here was to say they only applied for the firm they were interviewing with at the moment. This either showed (i) lack of sufficient awareness of how competitive getting a TC is; (ii) overconfidence; (iii) lack of a sufficiently strong desire to obtain a TC; or (iv) dishonesty in answering an interview question to show oneself as enthusiastic about the firm. As you can appreciate, neither of these disjuncts puts the candidate in a good light.
An example of a better answer here was what I discuessed in a successful VS interview with an elite US firm, which was that I was mainly looking for firms who had (i) strong corporate departments; (ii) gave lots of early responsibility; and (iii) had a smaller trainee intake and office size. I then listed a number of firms in this category (which included the firm I was interviewing at) and explained how I prioritized applying for these firms early in the cycle and how firms in these categories made up for around 60-70% of my applications. Then, I told them how the rest of the 30-40% were split between some larger firms with very good corporate practices (MC or top US) and also a number of more mid-market M&A focused firms (like DLA Piper). I explained how this was due to (a) that while I formed my best possibly informed view on the issue, I was not capable on having a very high degree of certitude as to the which training model and work environment that best suited me - and that as such, I would ideally want to experience a VS in both a larger and in a smaller office and decide on a TC subsequent to that; and (b) in that since my priority goal was to just get a TC from a good firm, taking into account the extreme competitiveness of the process, while I knew my value well enough to mostly apply for what I was most interest in, it made sense to hedge my bets and to not only apply for the most elite of elite firms. When I ended expressing these points, the partner I was speaking to was very impressed and said I had a very sensile approach.
Finally, in choosing how you want to approach constructing your answer you should remember that you likely will not be asked to list every single firm you have applied to. As such, you can pick and choose what examples to mention in a way that best fits your narrative.
I know this feeling. My lowest score was adaptability and right after receiving the results I saw on Macfarlanes's website that they "recruit a diverse range of people who can demonstrate skills such as adaptability, critical thinking, drive, and the ability to build long lasting relationships".hi everyone! i got my macfarlanes cappfinity report back - and my low scoring areas was analysis. obvs know it’s hard to draw any definitive conclusions, but do you think this means will likely result in pfo? can’t see myself progressing beyond test stage given how central a trait “analysis” is
written test was standard. the scenario VI questions were so hard I didn’t come across them before. At least I did a VI I guess.Damn, the irwin Mitchell test was sooo long and one vi question caught me off guard😭
(I also think I took more time than advised)
So worried now!!
I guess you could consider similarities. A focus on the clients? Don't play down what you did. Research is important for a trainee. What did you enjoy about it? What skills did you gain? Briefing a supervisor? Communicating complex ideas? Simplifying commercial and legal developments therein? Plenty of ways to spin it.@Amma Usman @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam
Hi guys, I just wanted a bit of advice on how I could leverage my previous seat in Debt Finance to support the reason I’m interested in the firm (for their banking and finance practice area). This seat was only a day long and I simply just did research tasks and briefed a supervisor.
Yes there is. I seem to recall one question. I'd suggest read the SRA handbook. Think about your values.is there actually a VI at the end of Latham & Watkins test? I can’t see much info on that online
Thank you!Yes there is. I seem to recall one question. I'd suggest read the SRA handbook. Think about your values.