TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Hi guys I have 2 random questions-
Would it be particularly bad to reuse part of your 'Why commercial law' answer in your 'Why this firm in particular' answer?

When answering why firm x in particular, could you draw comparisons between firms you've attended an open day for and why you're drawn to this form more.. or something like that?

Hiya @jojo23

Great questions! I'll take these in order.

First, I generally recommend that applicants avoid reusing part of their answer to 'Why commercial law' answer in their answer to 'Why this firm'. I think these questions serve different purposes:

• 'Why commercial law' is all about your broader motivations, i.e. why you’re drawn to the challenges and opportunities that are really distinctive of working in commercial law.
• 'Why this firm' is your chance to show you’ve done your research and understand what makes this firm unique. This is where you demonstrate why it stands out to you beyond just being a commercial law firm.

That said, I think it's possible to reframe your points so that your answers don't sound repetitive. For example, if you mention you're interested in working on cross-border deals in your answer to why commercial law, and you want to mention a similar point in your 'why this firm' question, then reflect on why the firm's cross-border expertise really stands out here. Are there certain sectors or matters they've advised on which are particularly tricky from a cross-border perspective? Does the firm's cross-border expertise extend beyond transactions to include regulatory or disputes capabilities? These are just some points to reflect on in order to ensure that your answer to the two questions seem distinct.

Second, comparing firms can work, but I usually suggest focusing on what excites you about this firm specifically. Drawing explicit comparisons can be tricky to get right. Instead, you can mention experiences that shaped your interest in a practice area or sector and then highlight why this firm is particularly appealing. Here's one way that I approached this in my own application:

• “By attending open days at several US-headquartered firms with life sciences expertise, I became interested in the way commercial lawyers often assist in areas such as drug discovery and development, often working closely with key regulators and leading life science researchers. Firm X's work in this area particularly stands out to me because of its unique combination of both transactional and regulatory expertise in the life sciences, as seen in [specific example and brief explanation of why the deal/case is commercially/legally interesting]..."

This kind of comparison shows thoughtful engagement with certain sectors/practice areas without explicitly comparing the firm you're applying to with other firms you might've interacted with.

Hope this helps, and good luck with your application! I'm also sure that @Andrei Radu and @Amma Usman would have much more brilliant insights to add here.

 

[Lastseasonwonder]

A&O Shearman TC PFO

 

[elizabethkate]

anyone heard from forsters?

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

For Goodwin’s 100 word limit on ‘why Goodwin’ how should we approach answering it, do you think we need to link back our experiences I.e if we’re interested in life sciences.

Hiya @Unknowncabbage


It's at tricky one to answer with only 100 words, but can be done! When I approached the question in my application, I found it important to be as concise as possible. Try your best to be specific and direct, even if you can't explore certain points or experiences in much depth. If you’re particularly interested in life sciences, you might highlight their work with biotech startups and spin-offs. I also briefly mentioned my conversations with two trainees to evidence my interest in the firm's distinctive training style. To make your answer personal, I'd encourage you to briefly link this to your background/experiences. Here's how I approached it:

• “Having worked for several years in UChicago's Medical Center, I am interested in Goodwin’s Band 1 ranked life sciences practice. Goodwin's experience [insert specific example and discuss briefly/concisely as to why it's interesting]... My conversations with trainees [X] and [Y] have also drawn me to [insert specific aspect of the firm's culture/training programme and state why it aligns with you/your experiences].

With such limited space, focus on how you can concisely demonstrate your alignment with the firm's practice area specialties and/or the demands of its distinctive training contract style. Good luck with the application!

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

has any1 heard from Skadden? Their apps are closed but haven't heard anything since my sept application.

Hiya @g.cl.2020344


As @IneedaTCASAP noted, they are non-rolling, so you should generally only expect to hear back after the deadline. That being said, in previous cycles, they have sometimes interviewed a handful of applicants prior to the application deadline (though it hasn't always been clear why they've made the exception in those cases). At any rate, I expect you'll receive a response in the coming weeks and hope you hear back from them soon with good news! Good luck with your other applications

 

[jojo23]

I would always avoid repetition in an application and try to ensure a point is only made once in the most appropriate place.

With “why this firm” I don’t think you need to draw comparisons, you can just focus on what that particular firms offer. That is enough - trying to explain what others offer instead would just utilise word count without really answering the question.

Ah okay, thank you, I appreciate this!!

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Does anyone know what happens after submitting the CMS application? Other firms I’ve applied for usually indicate that an online assessment will follow, but the automated reply from CMS hasn’t referenced that. Do they review your application first then send the Watson Glaser?

Hiya @Aspiringlawyer_

In previous years, CMS has typically reviewed an application before sending out their Watson Glaser tests. If I remember correctly, there were some candidates who had made it through to the test, while others had been rejected during the application stage. This year, they've also apparently stated that they will be reviewing applications on a non-rolling basis, so I wouldn't worry just yet. You may get sent that WG right after or closer to the deadline. Best of luck with your other applications!

 

[AnAnonymousDuck]

@Jessica Booker

Is it bad to use the same experience to answer different questions if we're using it to talk about different skills from different tasks. For a recent internship, I wrote briefs for clients and also handles multilingual communication between countries. Can I use the first reason to explain interest in a practice area and then use the internship again in a later question if discussing communication skills, or is that considered being repetitive?

 

[mulan0]

Hi @Jessica Booker and anyone who can help!

I had a quick query regarding one of the questions in my application. The question reads:

“Please detail all your positions of responsibility, including title, date, and a brief description. Please separate each position with a bullet point - 500 words.”

For some reason, I find myself repeating a lot of my work experience.

I’m currently holding a society position and also held one last year, which I plan to mention. However, since the word count is quite high, I wanted to ask if volunteering, such as pro bono work, could come under "positions of responsibility." Additionally, I’m a campus ambassador for a law firm, but I feel that role leans more towards work experience rather than a position of responsibility, especially since it’s a paid role. I’m a bit confused because I typically categorise pro bono work and my campus ambassador experience as work experience. Do you have any tips on what else could be included under positions of responsibility without repeating my work experience?

Another issue I had was with the formatting of the bullet points. I wanted to clarify whether I’m supposed to write the description and my responsibilities in bullet points (similar to a CV), or if they expect each experience to be listed as a bullet point with the description written in prose.

I’d really appreciate some insight on this.

I’m struggling with this too, I don’t have much left to say other than a charity volunteer position as most of my experiences come under work experience!

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

@Jessica Booker

Is it bad to use the same experience to answer different questions if we're using it to talk about different skills from different tasks. For a recent internship, I wrote briefs for clients and also handles multilingual communication between countries. Can I use the first reason to explain interest in a practice area and then use the internship again in a later question if discussing communication skills, or is that considered being repetitive?

Hiya @AI212121

I think using the same experience across different answers isn't necessarily wrong if you’re drawing on different aspects of that experience to demonstrate a range of skills. However, it’s worth thinking about how to incorporate a broader variety of examples from your work, volunteering, or even hobbies. Doing so not only makes your answers feel richer and more well-rounded but also helps avoid the risk of appearing repetitive or one-dimensional.

In one of my first partner interviews at a firm, I received feedback that many of my answers had been tied specifically to my current job. While this wasn’t necessarily bad, the interviewers wanted to hear about other contexts in which I'd developed I’d key skills and competencies. After the rejection, I really had to go back and have a think about my background and the variety of tasks and challenges I’ve faced in a variety of settings. It made me realise how much value I could bring from less traditional experiences (including my experiences working in restaurants or retail, backpacking, or even pursuing hobbies).

So while it’s okay to reuse an internship/certain job for different purposes, I’d encourage you to reflect on all your experiences, even ones you might not initially think are relevant. Sometimes the most unexpected examples can make your application stand out and show how well-rounded you are! Also curious to hear what @Jessica Booker has to say here!

 

[Andrei Radu]

Does anyone have tips for a written assessment in the form of an article? Usually it's an email to a client/partner and unsure how to prepare for this.
Thank you! @Jessica Booker @Andrei Radu

I have not had any personal experience with this particular type of written assessment method, but I think it is quite likely the firm is looking to assess the same key competencies: time-management and resilience under pressure, ability to identify and summarize key issues in large bodies of text, use of formal language, commercial awareness and problem solving skills. As such, I do not think your preparation for this type of written assessment format should be very different from your preparation for an exercise with a more common format.

The only things I can think of that you may want to consider as altering in your preparation are the following:

• Broader scope: An article will normally treat a broader topic and will aim to be more comprehensive than an email relating to a particular task. As such, when preparing I would look for written exercises asking me to summarize/comment on a wider set of issues. However, a corollary of that may be that you are not expected to go into as much depth in any of the particular issues.
• Length: Because of the broader scope, an article may generally be longer than an email.
• Impersonal and objective tone: As opposed to an email, which will relate to a particular issue a client cares about, an article is generally supposed to be more objective and impartial. You may therefore have to consider the perspective of stakeholders other than the firm's clients and to avoid the temptation of analysing the issues from a 'client-centric' perspective. However, if you are asked to also make an argument and give your personal view in the article (rather than an impartial commentary), definitely avoid sitting on the fence.

Finally, I would advise you to try to gather more information about the details of the written task at this specific firm. Resources like the TCLA Interview Database may come in very handy.

 

[RSK]

has any1 heard from Skadden? Their apps are closed but haven't heard anything since my sept application.

Hey, the confirmation email mentioned they'll progress success candidates to written exercise stage WC 1t6th December so not long left to wait now

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Hi @Jessica Booker and anyone who can help!

I had a quick query regarding one of the questions in my application. The question reads:

“Please detail all your positions of responsibility, including title, date, and a brief description. Please separate each position with a bullet point - 500 words.”

For some reason, I find myself repeating a lot of my work experience.

I’m currently holding a society position and also held one last year, which I plan to mention. However, since the word count is quite high, I wanted to ask if volunteering, such as pro bono work, could come under "positions of responsibility." Additionally, I’m a campus ambassador for a law firm, but I feel that role leans more towards work experience rather than a position of responsibility, especially since it’s a paid role. I’m a bit confused because I typically categorise pro bono work and my campus ambassador experience as work experience. Do you have any tips on what else could be included under positions of responsibility without repeating my work experience?

Another issue I had was with the formatting of the bullet points. I wanted to clarify whether I’m supposed to write the description and my responsibilities in bullet points (similar to a CV), or if they expect each experience to be listed as a bullet point with the description written in prose.

I’d really appreciate some insight on this.

Hiya @suhana (and @mulan0 )


I'd be curious to know what @Jessica Booker would say, as well as @Andrei Radu and @Amma Usman, but I think you're completely within reason to worry about sounding repetitive. That said, I think any society positions, pro bono experiences, could be mentioned here. I also suspect the campus ambassador role could be mentioned in the work experience, particularly since I know that some campus ambassadors receive remuneration for that role.

I wouldn't worry too much about meeting the word count, since this strikes me as a catch all question for any other non-work related experiences. However, in terms of formatting, I'd recommend listing the position and dates followed by a concise prose description. For example:

• Campus Ambassador, X Law Firm, September 2023 – Present
  Represented the firm at university events, managed communication between the firm and students, and coordinated promotional activities.

Again, I'd be curious to hear what the others have to say here, because the question seems to just be about positions of responsibility (and so doesn't seem like you can maximise the word count by discussing hobbies or less structured extracurriculars). Best of luck with your application!

 

[g.cl.2020344]

Hey, the confirmation email mentioned they'll progress success candidates to written exercise stage WC 1t6th December so not long left to wait now

Hey thanks for this, I must have missed this email! 😀

 

[zq522]

Has anyone been told they have successfully passed the test for Trowers & Hamlins?

Very much in same boat waiting. I applied and sat the test almost 2 months ago. They might be mega busy with the insight days etc ?

 

[xxx]

I have no clue how to answer the 'why commercial law' question because my interest in the career is an accumulation of different experiences. For example, working with my parents on their legal immigration documents/ translating what the lawyers would say when we moved to the UK, as well as working with the family companies litigation cases that happened over the years/ hearing about them and the process which they decided to follow (based on the advice of the legal team). I feel like its not clear when I write it or seems uncertain. How would I best frame these to link to commercial law/ the work companies do?

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Does anyone know if there are any firms with a strict zero-typo policy? 😭I spent weeks on an app, attended firm events etc, had it reviewed by multiple people, SPENT TWO DAYS PROOFREADING ( not continuously obviously but at random points) - stupidly made a last-minute change in the work experience section which caused my automatic keyboard to change the word to my last name ( I forgot it was on) - it obviously doesn't fit in the sentence and its capitalised so there's no chance graduate recruitment will miss it. It's so disheartening - I've been applying for so long and it just seems to be going nowhere because I keep making stupid little errors which is obviously my own fault but ouch.😟.

Hiya @AB

Just wanted to chime in and add to the fantastic response by @jta227. The good news is that a single typo is very rarely a dealbreaker for most firms. They tend to evaluate your application as a whole and focus on the bigger picture when deciding whether to invite you to the next stage. In fact, during one of my vacation schemes, the firm actually held a presentation where they showed us examples of grammar and spelling mistakes from our own applications! Their point was to reassure us that these slip-ups happen and aren’t the end of the world. That said, they did encourage us to double-check future applications to minimise errors and develop our attention to detail. I wouldn't stress too much about this. Instead, focus on improving your application writing and strategy overall and remember that you can use this as a learning opportunity for next time. Best of luck with your applications 😊

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi @Jessica Booker and anyone who can help!

I had a quick query regarding one of the questions in my application. The question reads:

“Please detail all your positions of responsibility, including title, date, and a brief description. Please separate each position with a bullet point - 500 words.”

For some reason, I find myself repeating a lot of my work experience.

I’m currently holding a society position and also held one last year, which I plan to mention. However, since the word count is quite high, I wanted to ask if volunteering, such as pro bono work, could come under "positions of responsibility." Additionally, I’m a campus ambassador for a law firm, but I feel that role leans more towards work experience rather than a position of responsibility, especially since it’s a paid role. I’m a bit confused because I typically categorise pro bono work and my campus ambassador experience as work experience. Do you have any tips on what else could be included under positions of responsibility without repeating my work experience?

Another issue I had was with the formatting of the bullet points. I wanted to clarify whether I’m supposed to write the description and my responsibilities in bullet points (similar to a CV), or if they expect each experience to be listed as a bullet point with the description written in prose.

I’d really appreciate some insight on this.

Just to add to @Ram Sabaratnam's great response here, I think a useful way to conceive of a positions of responsibility is as a role in which you are entrusted to do something which has an impact on others. This definitely captures society/club roles, but I think it goes beyond that. For instance, although debating/negotiations/mooting/another competition would normally count as an extracurricular, if you got to represent your society/university in an intervarsity competition, I think that could could count as a position of responsibility - because you are entrusted with the responsibility of representing a large group of people and the reputation of an institution. Similarly, although they may not be counted as official committee or subcommittee positions, contributing as a judge or trainer is also a position of responsibility.

 

[jojo23]

Hiya @jojo23

Great questions! I'll take these in order.

First, I generally recommend that applicants avoid reusing part of their answer to 'Why commercial law' answer in their answer to 'Why this firm'. I think these questions serve different purposes:

• 'Why commercial law' is all about your broader motivations—why you’re drawn to the challenges and opportunities that are really distinctive of working in commercial law.
• 'Why this firm' is your chance to show you’ve done your research and understand what makes this firm unique. This is where you demonstrate why it stands out to you beyond just being a commercial law firm.

That said, I think it's possible to reframe your points so that your answers don't sound repetitive. For example, if you mention you're interested in working on cross-border deals in your answer to why commercial law, and you want to mention a similar point in your 'why this firm' question, then reflect on why the firm's cross-border expertise really stands out here. Are there certain sectors or matters they've advised on which are particularly tricky from a cross-border perspective? Does the firm's cross-border expertise extend beyond transactions to include regulatory or disputes capabilities? These are just some points to reflect on in order to ensure that your answer to the two questions seem distinct.

Second, comparing firms can work, but I usually suggest focusing on what excites you about this firm specifically. Drawing explicit comparisons can be tricky to get right. Instead, you can mention experiences that shaped your interest in a practice area or sector and then highlight why this firm is particularly appealing. Here's one way that I approached this in my own application:

• “By attending open days at several US-headquartered firms with life sciences expertise, I became interested in the way commercial lawyers often assist in areas such as drug discovery and development, often working closely with key regulators and leading life science researchers. Firm X's work in this area particularly stands out to me because of its unique combination of both transactional and regulatory expertise in the life sciences, as seen in [specific example and brief explanation of why the deal/case is commercially/legally interesting]..."

This kind of comparison shows thoughtful engagement with certain sectors/practice areas without explicitly comparing the firm you're applying to with other firms you might've interacted with.

Hope this helps, and good luck with your application! I'm also sure that @Andrei Radu and @Amma Usman would have much more brilliant insights to add here.

Thank you so much @Ram Sabaratnam this is really helpful, I noticed some of my previous answers could be drastically improved 😅

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Thank you so much @Ram Sabaratnam this is really helpful, I noticed some of my previous answers could be drastically improved 😅

That's okay! Remember: movement > perfection! You'll develop your approach to written applications in due course!