TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Amjaya]

HSF rejection :/ so far only rejections losing hope again

Heads up, keep applying - remember it requires one YES!

 

[helloj]

Has anyone been rejected yet from Sidley Austin? I applied in mid September and am yet to hear back.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Just received the CMS WG invite, I applied on Saturday morning.
@Andrei Radu and @Ram Sabaratnam do you have any tips on how to succeed with this devil test?
I recently completed the Linklaters WG and although I answered more than half of the questions correctly, I still got 45 percentile.
It is so frustrating!

Hi @AS24! So my top two tips for succeeding in the WG are the following:

1. Pay attention to the technical meanings and rules of the specific concepts employed in each section and limit your reliance on purely intuitive judgement. Read carefully the instructions for each section and note them down in a number of short bullet points, which you can then go back to when having difficulty during the assessment. The biggest mistake I've seen people make with the WG is to treat it as a general critical thinking (IQ style) test and therefore rely too much on intuition when choosing the answer. I have found that an intuitive answer could be right in some sections and not in other. I have tended to score quite highly on the WG and my focus has been on the precise boundaries of the criteria given for each section - what can be assumed vs what can be inferred vs what can be deducted all have slightly different meanings, just as 'true', 'probable', 'beyond reasonable doubt' and 'logically certain' all have slightly different meanings. The difference between the candidates who score highly and those who score at our under average will likely depend on an ability to notice those fine distinctions.
2. Practice tests and courses: I think that while the WG certainly has an element of critical thinking/verbal reasoning skills, this does not mean that you cannot prepare for it and improve your chances. Just like you can prepare for other assessments that have critical thinking elements (like basically every university subject), you can prepare for the WG. Moreover, I would argue that critical thinking and verbal reasoning are not innate fixed attributes, but abilities that you can hone. In my own experience, I significantly improved my performance over time. As such, I would advise you to definitely do a few practice tests. Also, consider completing TCLA's excellent course on the WG here.

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Is it okay if I haven't sent any applications yet? I've written answers for 2-3 applications, been researching firms and writing up my CV. I do part-time work and have law school classes as well. I do plan to send 2 applications this week as they are almost there. I have a legal internship starting next week full-time and will not be able to work on apps for 15 days and I'm already scared if that's going to delay/ make things super busy later.

I'm an international student so can mostly apply for TCs but I am applying for a few VS' that close early as well. I'm just feeling overwhelmed and wanted advice on how I could go further from here. Considering I have not also not started practising WG tests (which I am not the best at).

Hey hey @Samridhi Jain 🥳

It sounds like you’ve already made good progress with researching firms and drafting your applications. You're still early into the application cycle, so don't worry just yet. Depending on the type of opportunities you're aiming for, though, it might be worth sending those applications out soon, especially for any winter vacation schemes, as those deadlines are coming up quickly. Spring and summer scheme deadlines are still several weeks away, so you have a bit more time for those.

One thing that might help is keeping an eye on which firms are accepting applications on a rolling basis versus non-rolling. For rolling applications, I've always tried my best to submit early, as I know some firms start offering AC spots before the deadline. For non-rolling ones, you’ve got more flexibility as long as the applications are strong when you send them. Regardless, the most important thing is making sure your applications are in the best shape possible. So if it feels overwhelming, it might be worth getting a couple of applications done well, rather than rushing too many. Also, don't forget to set aside time to practise for the Watson Glaser tests, pacing yourself with those can help ease the pressure too.

It’s completely normal to feel a bit overwhelmed, especially given everything you're currently doing (balancing part-time work, law school, and your upcoming internship!). Just take things step by step, and you’ll get through it.

Good luck, and feel free to ask any other questions on the forum. We're here to help

 

[deeja]

How should I be writing the work experience bit in applications. Should I just be writing what I did?

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

How should I be writing the work experience bit in applications. Should I just be writing what I did?

Hi @deeja

It’s great to be factual in the work experience sections, but I’d always encourage you to balance this with some degree of reflection. Rather than just listing what you did, try to highlight the specific skills you used while carrying out particular tasks. I also found it helpful to quantify any achievements (e.g. quantifying how many clients or customers I typically interacted with, or the number of presentations I gave in a role, or submissions I made in a legal work experience, etc). When doing so, I'd also actively discuss what I did during the course of my employment/volunteering to meet those targets, numbers, or achievements. Here's an example of mine that was once edited by the fab @Jessica Booker:

• Between October 2021 - June 2022, I assisted a student with complex health care needs who was studying at [XXX]. I attended their weekly lectures and tutorials, where I took detailed notes on their behalf. In situations where they had difficulty expressing their thoughts, I communicated their ideas and often asked any questions they may have had about the course material. I also maintained communication between the student and their module convenors. When they were unable to attend lectures or tutorials due to medical appointments, I informed their lecturers and tutors of their absence. I also sent all my notes to their module convenors. Finally, as the student had a backlog of notes from previous online lectures, I was given access to recordings of those lectures to draft additional notes for them.
  
  I also worked as a temporary note-taker for two other students registered with Randstad when their usual note-takers were unable to attend sessions on their behalf. Overall, this role has required me to be both approachable and a flexible communicator, as I frequently liaise between students and their module convenors. When drafting informative and well-written notes, I also draw on my writing and comprehension skills to ensure that complex ideas are conveyed clearly

That being said, I also know some people who keep work experience descriptions fairly brief. Overall, though, I've generally found it helpful to include more detailed descriptions in my applications, so that I could give graduate recruiters a sense that I'm a well-rounded candidate — someone who’s done more than just academics. I think the work experience section is a really excellent place to do this. Overall, don’t stress too much about the format. I would just focus on showing what you’ve learned/done, breaking this down more concretely, and briefly discussing how those experiences have made you a strong candidate.

 

[IneedaTCASAP]

Guys is this true or is this what they usually say as a PFO?

I would take that as a small win. You did not get rejected based on your application you got rejected as there was not enough space. Either apply for another insight day or focus on the VS application. Good luck.

 

[IneedaTCASAP]

Add White & Case rejection just now 🤪

That sucks. Keep your head up. Was this Post app? If so I assume more people will get them as I’ve not seen any yet

 

[seaweed.bond]

Hey @seaweed.bond , good questions. For the first question, I have actually made a post on this earlier, which I have linked below;

Why This Firm? 🤔💭 : Crafting Applications

Hi TCLA Community! 😁 I created this thread because we all know that October is the season of drafting more and more applications for law firms. Knowing that you want to work at a particular firm is one thing; effectively demonstrating why that specific firm interests you is another. There are...

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

As for your second question, it’s worth stating what you would do briefly, and then linking back to a time when you had to do the same/similar task, as this would allow you to showcase the competency better. Referring to the firm’s policy manual or contacting a supervisor would arguably miss the element of proactivity. You want to showcase yourself as a candidate that’s willing to go the extra mile to solve a problem. You could then subsequently check in with your manager for any points which need clarification.

Hope this helps!

Thank you, this is great!

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

For writing a memo, if I'm trying to address multiple separate topics is it appropriate to use numbered bullet points in the executive summary to summarise each key topic. Also, when addressing each topic in depth is it appropriate to use numbered points again, or should I be writing in full prose?

Sorry for what is probably a dumb question, but I've looked online and I'm struggling to see a consistent approach that I can be confident in going into my AC.

Hi @Apple

This isn't a dumb question at all. Written exercises can be tricky (I struggled with these often in my own applications), and getting the structure right is key! When approaching a memo, I think it's best to use headings and subheadings to clearly separate the different issues or topics you’re addressing. This helps ensure your memo is well-organised and easy to follow.

If it makes sense, I'd also recommend including an executive summary right at the outset. It’s perfectly fine to use numbered bullet points to summarise the key topics under this heading. This can make your memo more reader-friendly, and give your reader a signpost of where you'll be taking them in the rest of the document/memo (especially when there are multiple issues to address). Just make sure each point is concise and clearly highlights the key takeaways if you do include an executive summary. When you dive into each topic in more detail, you can then provide a more in-depth, cohesive analysis, using sub-headings that correspond to the numbered points under the executive summary. Hope that makes sense!

As always, make sure you leave time to read through it before submitting

Good luck with your assessment!

 

[gazdgazd11]

That sucks. Keep your head up. Was this Post app? If so I assume more people will get them as I’ve not seen any yet

Yes

 

[IneedaTCASAP]

Yes

Your week can only get better from here! Keep pushing.

 

[NJS]

Yes

When did you apply?

 

[Apple]

Hi @Apple

This isn't a dumb question at all. Written exercises can be tricky (I struggled with these often in my own applications), and getting the structure right is key! When approaching a memo, I think it's best to use headings and subheadings to clearly separate the different issues or topics you’re addressing. This helps ensure your memo is well-organised and easy to follow.

If it makes sense, I'd also recommend including an executive summary right at the outset. It’s perfectly fine to use numbered bullet points to summarise the key topics under this heading. This can make your memo more reader-friendly, and give your reader a signpost of where you'll be taking them in the rest of the document/memo (especially when there are multiple issues to address). Just make sure each point is concise and clearly highlights the key takeaways if you do include an executive summary. When you dive into each topic in more detail, you can then provide a more in-depth, cohesive analysis, using sub-headings that correspond to the numbered points under the executive summary. Hope that makes sense!

As always, make sure you leave time to read through it before submitting

Good luck with your assessment!

Thank you so much for this response, I feel way better going into the AC now

 

[Jessica Booker]

Just to clarify and wrap up, I'm interested in what is considered a stand-out score. As you mentioned, my application is considered holistically so even if I do get full marks, I can still have an average written app which pulls me down, especially if the application has a greater weighting on progression. Nonetheless, I'm interested in what is considered a stand-out score (beyond full marks).

With the emphasis on percentiles for some firms, I'm worried that getting say an 83% (roughly 33 marks) could be the 50th percentile, downplaying the strength of my performance. This is an outcome you might see regularly from applicants for firms like Linklaters, just to use as an example.

The firms I'm applying to that use this test/test style are Addleshaw, Hogan Lovells, Bates Wells and CMS. From what I have read, Hogan uses a benchmark, but I'm not sure about the others.

On the most basic levels of analysis, a “standout” percentile ranking would generally be anything 80th or above.

However, I’d stress this does not mean you need to get the 80th percentile in these assessments.

What you don’t know is what group of people you are being assessed against to get that percentile ranking.

This is an extreme example with made up numbers just to explain things…

You could do the same test and be assessed against different norm groups (these are the other people they are comparing you against). One norm group could be a general UK population group, one group could be your fellow applicants, another group could be partners in the law firm you have applied to. Those groups are likely to have very different percentile rankings for the same test. You could get 80th percentile for the first group (general population), 60th percentile (applicants) and 30th percentile (partners). Each firm could then have different views of what is “standout” - the firm who assesses you against partners could think 30th is a standout performance, while the 60th percentile for the general applicant pool could be considered average.

To make it even more complicated, different firms weight different aspects of the WG differently, so it’s really difficult to compare tests or make statements about what is good/what is not.

 

[studentdelaw786]

Hi Hamzah, it's great to meet you too ! TCLA's policy is to try to keep all discussions on the forum unless it is concerns very personal issues and circumstances. Firstly, this is so everyone else can get the benefit of reading our posts. Secondly, it is so that other people can get involved in the conversation as well, as a lot of useful insights and perspectives are shared as a result of that. Thus, I would encourage you to just write a response here to continue the discussion - I will be happy to respond to any questions.

No worries! Happy to continue here.

So, I was hoping to understand the sources of the research that you did for DPW’s profile. I have used Chambers Student and Legal Cheek so far, but I am looking for more detailed sources to get a comprehensive outlook.

Look forward to hearing your thoughts!

 

[lawyersum]

Does anybody have any recommended resources to practice the Artic Shores Test, particularly for Gowling?

 

[Jessica Booker]

After one purely motivational question, Addleshaw Goddard has the additional question: "Use this space to tell us about any mitigating circumstances that you might have or any other information about you that might be relevant to your application.". Besides mitigating circumstances, is it common/does it make sense to use this section as a "Why me?" section, for example detailing skills and positions of responsibility? Or should I simply leave it blank if I don't have any mitigating circumstances? (If I had to guess, I would assume that it was intended to be only about information akin to mitigating circumstances, but I can't be sure.)

If the application form has “why me” and —a “extra curricular” section it is important of not just use this question as an opportunity to carry over details that could have been included elsewhere. Generally, I would only recommend adding any details in this section that you feel are important context to your application but that you don’t have the ability to provide elsewhere (eg you have not been asked the question/given the opportunity to explain).

 

[Jessica Booker]

Guys is this true or is this what they usually say as a PFO?

I would take that as encouragement to reapply. I doubt they send that to all applicants.

 

[Jessica Booker]

For writing a memo, if I'm trying to address multiple separate topics is it appropriate to use numbered bullet points in the executive summary to summarise each key topic. Also, when addressing each topic in depth is it appropriate to use numbered points again, or should I be writing in full prose?

Sorry for what is probably a dumb question, but I've looked online and I'm struggling to see a consistent approach that I can be confident in going into my AC.

I’d stress there is not a consistent approach to this.

You will need to weigh up presenting the information in the clearest, most structured and concise way, and there could be many different approaches that achieve that.