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TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

Andrei Radu

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Sep 9, 2024
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For the A&O application, how much are people writing? I have put down all my work experience and extra curriculars etc., but the word doc is now just over 2,000 words. Is this overkill?
(For context, I graduated 2 years ago so do have a fair amount of work experience to enter)
While your total wordcount may be on the lengthy side, I don't think it is necessarily overkill. When I was applying for a firm with no word count limit on the cover letter and some other questions, I think I wrote in total over 2500 words, to which I added roughly another 1000 in the work experience section - and my application ended up being progressed. What I think does matter is to write in a concise, structured manner and to avoid repetition. If everything you have written in the section adds substantive value to your application, puts the recruiter in a better position to understand your work experience, and is not verbose, I don't think you have to worry. However, I would advise you to scrutinize your written work experience for lack of conciseness - and to be just as self-critical as you would be when reviewing a cover letter/motivation question written answer.
 

Andrei Radu

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What's a good number of firms to apply for a VS to? I currently have 16 but seeing people apply to 70 is worrying me... I'm determined to get a VS this year and willing to put the work in so how many would people suggest?
The question as to the ideal number of applications is a rather controversial one, and I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to it. Some top recruiters and top applicants advise to be 100% focused on producing the highest possible quality of applications and to therefore only choose around 6-8 firms. Others argue that applications are more of a number's game, where luck is a very significant factor, and that you should therefore aim for applying to as many firms as possible - sometimes in excess of 50 or 60.

I have know candidates who have been successful with both approaches, and I think there is some truth to both perspectives. On the one hand, as we well know, the VS application process is extremely competitive, so there is not much of a point in submitting an application which does not have high quality written answers - it will have virtually no chance of being progressed. I have known people who were initially writing applications very quickly, and got rejected 20 or 30 times consecutively, and upon changing their strategy to a quality-focused one, they progressed with half of the firms they subsequently applied to. On the other hand, it seems to me it is undeniable that luck is also a very significant factor, and that you should therefore aim to maximize your chances by submitting a higher number of applications. In my own experience, some of the applications I had spent most time and effort on, and which I thought had some of my best writing, ended up being rejected at first stage. At the same time, some of the applications which I knew had some room for improvement ended up being progressed and eventually secured me TC offers. In my opinion, this could not be accounted by anything other than the role of luck - if anything, the firms that ended up progressing me tended to be the firms which I would have expected to be more selective than the ones which rejected me. As such, I don't think you can ever write to a high enough standard that you eliminate the luck factor. Graduate recruitment teams review dozens and sometimes hundreds of application per day, they have to reject the vast majority, and there is no objective metric to assess your application on. Some recruiters might place more emphasis on grades, some on your work experience, some on how convincing your motivations are and the quality of your written answers, some on WG/SJT scores, some on your university and degree, some on your extracurriculars and prizes, and so on. When comparing two strong applications that score well in all these categories, there is an unavoidable element of subjectivity in the recruiter's choice as to what criteria to prioritize. Since you don't know beforehand what a particular recruiter's attitude will be on the day they review your application, there is a strong argument to be made to apply to as may firms as possible to maximize your chances of having your application assessed by a recruiter who places more emphasis on the criteria you score best in. From my personal experience, the very best of candidates (who do very well in all the aforementioned categories) only end up with a VS offer for every 1/3-1/4 applications.

What is my concrete advice? I think the best strategy is to aim to send as many high quality applications as possible. That is, you should never submit an application just for the sake of a theoretical chance of progressing if you have not spent a sufficient amount of time researching the firm, and then writing and reviewing the application. At the same time, you should not spend 50 hours of work on every application to ensure you get to that absolute 100% level of quality your are capable of. I think sending 20 applications with 95% level of writing quality is better than sending 4 applications at 100%. Thus, I think you should focus on starting to write high quality applications, and then try to write as many as you can. You might find that at the beginning it takes you longer to write great answers, but as you go through the application process and you improve your research and drafting skills, your pace might significantly improve. Initially, it took me around 2-3 weeks to have a great application, but by January I could write an application at the same level of quality in 1-2 days. You will have to assess your own pace to estimate how many applications you can aim to submit. However, I think submitting 20-30 high quality applications should be achievable for most dedicated candidates, and I have also seen some especially driven people ending up with 40-50 good applications in a single cycle.
 

Jessica Booker

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For Work History in applications do I need to go into a really detailed explanation of what I did and aim to fill the word count e.g. 250 words? Or would a few lines do with a brief explanation, and then go into more detail in the cover letter?
I wouldn't provide details of your work experience in a cover letter. Your cover letter should focus more on your motivations and highlight a small number of your key strengths rather than detailing what you have done in the past. You don't have to use all 250 words for your work experience if you feel you have covered your key responsibilities and achievements/impact in the role sufficiently.
 
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MayaM0921

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Jan 17, 2023
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If I understood it correctly that A&O's video questions have unlimited preparation time, can someone please be a lamb and spell out the questions? I'm kinda worried about tech glitches : (
 

saminoriya

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  • Aug 11, 2024
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    If I understood it correctly that A&O's video questions have unlimited preparation time, can someone please be a lamb and spell out the questions? I'm kinda worried about tech glitches : (
    They did say what questions there are on the Insight event, but probably not the exact text. They are: What challenge did you have and how did you overcome it and how did you demonstrate resilience? Why do you want to be a corporate solicitor and what skills will make you the best solicitor?
     

    EquityTraineeGPT

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    Sep 10, 2023
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    I’ve seen a few things recently about an LLM AI model that reviews law firm applications.
    Of course, I haven’t seen the T&Cs, so don’t want to make assumptions. But, I have no idea what the model is trained on + how they use our data/applications.
    I’d say to be cautious.

    It is dodgy as hell, apparently they used the TCLA and CLA databases w/o permission
     
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    SoonToBeTrainee

    Distinguished Member
  • Dec 29, 2023
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    It is dodgy as hell, apparently they used the Tcla and CLA data base
    I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re scraping everyone’s applications. There’s even a LinkedIn post from the guy that shows he can see everyone’s prompts.

    There’s 0 reason to use an AI model for law applications. There will be nothing unique it can add.

    Everyone is better off doing their own unique research and just using ChatGPT for grammar edits etc.
     
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    MayaM0921

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    Jan 17, 2023
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    They did say what questions there are on the Insight event, but probably not the exact text. They are: What challenge did you have and how did you overcome it and how did you demonstrate resilience? Why do you want to be a corporate solicitor and what skills will make you the best solicitor?
    Thank you so much !!! 😇
     

    Jessica Booker

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    Graduate Recruitment
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    Forum Team
    Aug 1, 2019
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    I’ve seen a few things recently about an LLM AI model that reviews law firm applications.
    Of course, I haven’t seen the T&Cs, so don’t want to make assumptions. But, I have no idea what the model is trained on + how they use our data/applications.
    I’d say to be cautious.
    Please can you (or anyone else) let us know if you have been contacted about this via the forums or private messages.
     

    lawyersum

    Star Member
    Jun 28, 2024
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    Guys, what were the questions for Akin Gump last cycle? They haven't opened yet but want to get ahead of it and start drafting.
    Unfortunately I don’t remember the exact questions so hopefully can someone provide more info, but I do remember there being a hefty no of questions (5/6) and one was quite distinct as it asked why you would specifically want to work in the London office.
     

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