TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

Jessica Booker

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You don’t need an undergraduate LLB degree in order to become a solicitor in the UK. If for example you did a non-law degree (or an overseas law degree), you would simply just need to do the PGDL or the fast-track LLB degree for graduates. 🎓

If international students followed the same process as UK domestic students, there wouldn’t be any issues for them securing NQ positions at elite law firms. I think the disconnect is that most of the elite city firms are less familiar with the QWE route and so prefer the standard TC route for NQ’s. 🙂

That doesn’t necessarily mean they would turn away all NQ solicitors who chose to qualify via the QWE route. It would simply be an assessment of whether that QWE is sufficient for the firm and its requirements. Bear in mind that it isn’t just international students that choose to do the SQE/QWE route to qualification. Many UK graduates choose this path and find themselves to be in the exact same position. 🙂

I agree with you that candidates are less likely to get NQ positions at elite firms without having done a TC, but it’s purely because the QWE route is very new. Perhaps the SRA could make it clearer how it works so all elite firms can see there are two equal paths to qualification. 🙂
You don’t need a law degree or the GDL anymore. You just need any degree level education in any subject to be eligible to sit the SQE.

Elite firms know very well how the SQE/QWE system works and are using it in a whole host of ways to train people, including foreign qualified lawyers. The difference is that not all QWE is equal - the benchmark is exceptionally low and law firms are not just going to recognise any QWE. They are only going to be interested in QWE that is of a similar standard to their own training, which will have a much higher benchmark than what the SRA sets.
 

Jessica Booker

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The only way to qualify as a NQ solicitor in England and Wales outside of a TC is to have 2+ years of QWE in the UK and pass both SQE1 and SQE2. By completing the SQE/QWE route, you become ineligible for TC’s and VS because you don’t need to do them. 🙂

By completing the latter, you would be a newly qualified solicitor! Whilst the QWE gained may be through doing paralegal roles, once you become an NQ, you can begin practice as a solicitor at any firm. I don’t think you are limited to paralegal roles only. A paralegal is different to a solicitor. 🙂

To sit the SQE 1&2 exams, you need an undergraduate degree in any subject. Domestic (UK) students will have this. Most International students will have gotten their undergraduate degrees from another country. The SRA allow international students to sit the SQE on the basis that their undergraduate degree has been awarded by a recognised institution and country. 🙂

Having an LLM from the UK and passing the SQE is not enough to secure a role as a lateral hire associate at an elite law firm in the UK. These firms would require you to have done a TC with another firm or UK-based QWE for at least two years (SRA rules). 🙂

I think the disadvantage mainly stems from not meeting all of the SRA’s requirements that are needed in order to become an NQ solicitor in the UK. 🥲
Just to clarify a few points on here:

- your QWE does not have to be in the UK - you can do your QWE in any country, it just needs to be signed off by an English qualified lawyer.

- if you are qualified in another country/jursidiciton you do not need to do two years of QWE. You just need to pass SQE1 and/or SQE2. Many foreign qualified lawyers also get an exemption from either SQE1 or SQE2 as well.

- Some firms are allowing people who have qualified under the SQE to apply for vacation schemes and training contracts, especially if they are foreign qualified lawyers or if their experience is in a very different area of law.

- Passing the SQE alone (even without an LLM) can be enough to secure an NQ role (or PQE role) if you have got comparable experience. You don’t need to have done a TC or have two years of work experience in the UK. You can have worked in any other country and have gained comparable experience in another jurisdiction.

- The SRA does not really have any requirements any more beyond the SQE1 and SQE2 assessments. The issue for firms is that the SRA’s requirements are so basic now in relation to QWE that firms have to put their own standards in place. For the most elite firms that standard is very high, and very few organisations are going to be able to meet that standard.
 
Hiya @future_traineesolicitor


I'm sure @Amma Usman and @Andrei Radu would have more to say here, but when researching a firm’s competitors I normally took the approach below and pulled from several different sources.

  1. Industry rankings: My starting point is usually Chambers UK and Legal 500. They’re great for understanding what practice areas a firm is really known for and seeing how they rank compared to other firms in the same areas. It gives you a solid foundation to identify competitors. Chambers Student profiles are also golden in that they offer a broad overview of the sort work a firm is typically known for, while the rankings offer more granular insight into specific areas a firm excels in.

  2. Legal publications: The Lawyer (a favourite of mine, and their podcast is FREE) and The Global Legal Post were pretty useful. They frequently covered major lateral hires, practice area expansion (or contraction lol), or geographic expansion and painted a more holistic picture of firms for me than was typical of Chambers UK or Legal 500. The Lawyer's podcast was also great, because they often discussed certain firms and their strategies, as well as important market shifts that allowed those firms to really stand out compared to their competitors. I also generally found their discussions quite accessible in terms of the level of detail. Worth noting, though, that some of these publications do require subscriptions and have articles behind paywalls.

  3. Any awards: Looking at recent awards a firm has won can also reveal their strengths. If a firm regularly wins in a specific practice area or outperforms similarly ranked competitors, it’s a good indicator of their reputation in that specific area. The Lawyer Hot 100 was also fantastic in highlighting standout deals and lawyers at various firms.
Hope this helps, and good luck with your research!

To add to @Ram Sabaratnam's excellent answer, I think you should conceive of 'competitors' and 'the market' in two distinct ways. Firstly, you have the broad sense of the terms, where we look at firms as a whole and compare them. Looking at a firm holistically will entail considering revenue and profitability, headcount, international offices and strategy, practice area/sector expertise, client base, history, growth model, patterns in type of deals/cases/matters the firm works on, various market recognition and so. Fortunately enough, over time an informal classification system of firms based on shared attributes has emerged - the legal press places firms in categories such as: the Magic Circle, the Silver Circle, more recently the 'Global Elite', the US firms, the large international firms, the regional firms, the high street firms etc. Then, to differentiate a given firm from other members in the category and to pinpoint its market position further, you can use the resources Ram mentioned for more in depth research.

To give an example, you can further break down the category of US firms between those that have large, medium or small-sized London offices. You can then break down between those that focus on providing a full service offering and those that target a specific selection of practice areas/sectors. If you then still need to break it down further, you should look at client base and volume and type of mandates advised on. You should be able to find statistics on deal/case values and volumes on publications like The Lawyer and Bloomberg Law, whereas for 'deal types' you should just take a look at the firm's listed expertise and see if you notice any patterns. Legal 500 is also quite useful here as it breaks down practice areas/sector expertise rankings with a more targeted/narrow scope and also lists related mandates/clients.

The second interpretation of the terms is a narrowed one, focusing on competitors and each firms' position within the marketplace of a specific practice area/sector. When identifying a firm's competitors in a given practice area/sector, you can once again make a further distinction between (i) competitors as in the selection of best firms in the area - the ones that are toughest to pitch against (which can be reliably identified by looking at the Chambers band 1 firms) and the one; and (ii) competitors as the firms your firm actually competes most for work with - the ones it is actually coming across most often when pitching for the same work. To identify a firm's position in the given practice area marketplace you once again want to look at (ii). What you want to see is if there are any common characteristics of most of the work done by your firm in the given practice area and the work done by the firms it is most often pitching against and see if you can in any way classify it as a type. To this end, you should also research any available statistics relating to the practice area's revenue, profitability, headcount, and mandate-specific statistics.

To give an example, say we are analyzing Davis Polk's corporate team. You can start with the Band 4 Chambers M&A ranking which in the context of its high profitability and small headcount can be seen as an indicator of great expertise. Going beyond this and looking at Davis Polk's London corporate M&A work you can identify a couple of features, such as a higher deal value/lower deal volume strategy, a focus on Transatlantic mandates, and a prevalence of matters form institutional clients. This already distinguishes the practice from that of most rivals. Analyzing the other Chambers-ranked firms, the only ones that arguably still fit the same description are Sullivan & Cromwell and Cleary Gottlieb. To further differentiate Davis Polk's M&A team from theirs you should look into their respective list of past mandates and market recognition and once again find new characteristics. In Davis Polk's case I would say those include the breath of types of deals they advise on (as they have comparable expertise in public M&A, private M&A, and PE) and particular expertise in TMT and financial services.
Thank you both so much for the detailed response! Really appreciate it:)
 

Jessica Booker

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Hi, just wondering how much leeway firms give for a few spelling/grammar mistakes or factual inaccuracies in written exercises ?
Most written assessments will have some errors still. I don’t think I have ever seen a perfect response.

But it’s difficult to know how much leeway would be given. It’s really going to depend on what the errors were as some will be more serious than others.
 
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chrisbrown

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Ropes has no work experience section wtf???? Surely in that case we need to relate the 3 characteristics question back to ourselves? Strangest application ever
This is what is confusing me as well tbh. 🥲🥲

I saw some people discuss on the forum that we need to use personal examples. I also saw people saying we don’t need to do that and just focus on the question.

It would make sense for it to be the first one considering there isn’t a work experience section. 🥲🥲
 

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