TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[lolasparks]

Hi, I'm sorry to hear about the struggles! Unfortunately nothing in the industry is really taken for granted, even if you think you're the best luck will have a different view. However, I may have some pointers that might help. I spoke with a 20+ year partner at a large city firm (international and just outside the SC), who made it clear that certain processes may actually be a disadvantage when on the outset it seemed necessary. For context, I'm finishing my final year of an LLB, getting absolutely nowhere with applications. Please bear in mind that my advice to you is merely a repetition of what I've been told, and I really don't mean to pour salt on the wound.

Firstly, the advice he gave to me is to throw as many applications as you possibly can into different firms, as moving laterally post qualifications is easier than entering the profession at the top. He recommended 20+ annually. Grades don't particularly matter in the context of minimum entry, some firms are snobbier than others but all seem to accept a range of both 2:1 and 1st level candidates. It is often more down to the personality of the candidate than it is their academic achievement. Try to make your application broad. Given your experience doing multiple specific post grads, you run the risk of appearing too tunneled into a section of the legal profession. This can often leave a sour taste in grad recruitment's mouth because you are requried to sit more than just a corporate law / M&A seat.

Secondly, the main question partners will likely wonder that potentially undermines your otherwise strong application is why didn't you self fund the LPC? Either directly or through the LLM LPC, surely if you wanted to be a lawyer, you would've made every step to qualify ASAP. I was initially considering to do a specialist masters in Arbitration and DR, but was heavily discouraged due to the overwhelming stress of the SQE. Unfortunately the sad reality is that post graduate degrees do little to bridge any gap between theory and profession. In the eyes of a firm, you will have to convince them that your multiple post grads are of more benefit than the practical knowledge you would've otherwise have gained by directly going down the path of qualification. As it stands, you are competing against candidates far younger and far more maleable as a result of their relative inexperience. My point is that it can often come across as delaying the inevitable, especially when stacked onto the GDL, as you have spent a considerable amount of time outside of the legal profession persuing other paths.

Thirdly, please don't feel too discouraged. This path is not an easy one, and you will never be able to guarantee your future in the career. But, resilience and genuine passion for the field really distinguish you from other candidates. You have more professional experience and more academic experience than 90% of other candidates and it is something you need to lean on heavily. Finally, I have friends who were paralegals for 7+ years prior to being offered a seat at the table. They saw second year students recieve the prized TC they had failed to secure 7 years running. You DO have what it takes, it's a matter of serving that on a platter that is shinier than everyone elses. Perhaps an adjustment of expectation is required? Perhaps not. Only you can decide what left you have in you to continue working in the field, and any decision you make is an honourable one that has not been without much contemplation.

Hope this helps, best of luck to you.

I really appreciate when people reply so extensively, it is so lovely to see the encouragement and genuine advice!

 

[avocadob]

Osborne Clarke virtual AC!

Congratulations! Anyone else heard from them?

 

[cwhite233]

For the first question, while I do not have a lot of prior knowledge about the firm, I do believe Chambers and Legal 500 rankings are good indicators for a firm's practice area focus and strengths. Based on that, it seems like Winston & Strawn is not simply a litigation boutique, but that it covers a wider array of practices to service a wider client base. Looking at its Legal 500 rankings (as Chambers only ranks its finance department), we see the firm is recognized for:

• Transactional: for finance, particularly bank lending; for corporate, particularly mid market corporate M&A and PE;
• Disputes: general commercial litigation; particularly high rankings also in international arbitration and class action defence for product liability (the highest rankings of all its practices, which I think explains the firm's reputation for disputes)
• Advisory: competition law; also its aviation and sports practices;

For the second question my interpretation would partly depend on what other questions are asked in the application form. Nonetheless, all other things being equal, I would bring the scope down to something along the lines of 'What aspects of work/types of work/work environments motivate me to excel?'. Then, I would name and expand on two or three characteristics that I can link with an experience. Finally I would make a connection to the career of a commercial solicitor and try to explain how my motivations are aligned with it.

Thank you!

 

[M_m]

Has anyone heard back from Osborne Clarke for the London VS?

 

[mfuturetrainee]

how does one prep for an AC that has a written component and an interview effectively when working full time? I literally get home at 6 and I'm trying not to crash @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam would love your thoughts!!

I'm also very behind with commercial awareness and am trying to figure out the best way to utilise being effective in that as well

 

[chewett]

Hey, I don't know the answer to the question, but I have the first-stage interview on Monday with Gibson Dunn! Would you please be able to give me any advice? how was yours, etc..

Hey I saw you were applying to HFW, have you heard back from them yet?

 

[halogenz]

Osborne Clarke virtual AC!

Is this for London?

 

[Laylaaa]

Freshfields AC invite!

Congratulations! Can I please ask if this is for the summer vac scheme or direct TC? If it is for the VS, when did you do the watson glaser?

 

[billyonthespeeddial]

Congratulations! Can I please ask if this is for the summer vac scheme or direct TC? If it is for the VS, when did you do the watson glaser?

Wouldn't be for the direct TC as that one has only just sent out the online test

 

[Chris Brown]

Has anyone heard back from Covington & Burling yet?

 

[lawyersum]

Hi, I'm sorry to hear about the struggles! Unfortunately nothing in the industry is really taken for granted, even if you think you're the best luck will have a different view. However, I may have some pointers that might help. I spoke with a 20+ year partner at a large city firm (international and just outside the SC), who made it clear that certain processes may actually be a disadvantage when on the outset it seemed necessary. For context, I'm finishing my final year of an LLB, getting absolutely nowhere with applications. Please bear in mind that my advice to you is merely a repetition of what I've been told, and I really don't mean to pour salt on the wound.

Firstly, the advice he gave to me is to throw as many applications as you possibly can into different firms, as moving laterally post qualifications is easier than entering the profession at the top. He recommended 20+ annually. Grades don't particularly matter in the context of minimum entry, some firms are snobbier than others but all seem to accept a range of both 2:1 and 1st level candidates. It is often more down to the personality of the candidate than it is their academic achievement. Try to make your application broad. Given your experience doing multiple specific post grads, you run the risk of appearing too tunneled into a section of the legal profession. This can often leave a sour taste in grad recruitment's mouth because you are requried to sit more than just a corporate law / M&A seat.

Secondly, the main question partners will likely wonder that potentially undermines your otherwise strong application is why didn't you self fund the LPC? Either directly or through the LLM LPC, surely if you wanted to be a lawyer, you would've made every step to qualify ASAP. I was initially considering to do a specialist masters in Arbitration and DR, but was heavily discouraged due to the overwhelming stress of the SQE. Unfortunately the sad reality is that post graduate degrees do little to bridge any gap between theory and profession. In the eyes of a firm, you will have to convince them that your multiple post grads are of more benefit than the practical knowledge you would've otherwise have gained by directly going down the path of qualification. As it stands, you are competing against candidates far younger and far more maleable as a result of their relative inexperience. My point is that it can often come across as delaying the inevitable, especially when stacked onto the GDL, as you have spent a considerable amount of time outside of the legal profession persuing other paths.

Thirdly, please don't feel too discouraged. This path is not an easy one, and you will never be able to guarantee your future in the career. But, resilience and genuine passion for the field really distinguish you from other candidates. You have more professional experience and more academic experience than 90% of other candidates and it is something you need to lean on heavily. Finally, I have friends who were paralegals for 7+ years prior to being offered a seat at the table. They saw second year students recieve the prized TC they had failed to secure 7 years running. You DO have what it takes, it's a matter of serving that on a platter that is shinier than everyone elses. Perhaps an adjustment of expectation is required? Perhaps not. Only you can decide what left you have in you to continue working in the field, and any decision you make is an honourable one that has not been without much contemplation.

Hope this helps, best of luck to you.

Love this advice and thanks for sharing. But I can’t help but feel my heart sink on the point about the LPC/SQE. I have completed a law degree but simply cannot afford to self fund the SQE. Putting the burden on my family would also be out of the question. Even a government masters loan would not include the £5000 or so required to book and sit the exams. I’m totally not shooting the messenger here as I thank you for sharing this advice, but I would encourage the partner who you spoke to think about ‘jumping straight into the SQE/LPC’ a bit more from the perspective of an average income household background law graduate. However, my commitment to practising law will always remain the same as someone who has self funded. Peace and love🫶🏼

 

[Olivialee15]

summer?:/

Yep

 

[nathan5996]

Love this advice and thanks for sharing. But I can’t help but feel my heart sink on the point about the LPC/SQE. I have completed a law degree but simply cannot afford to self fund the SQE. Putting the burden on my family would also be out of the question. Even a government masters loan would not include the £5000 or so required to book and sit the exams. I’m totally not shooting the messenger here as I thank you for sharing this advice, but I would encourage the partner who you spoke to think about ‘jumping straight into the SQE/LPC’ a bit more from the perspective of an average income household background law graduate.

Trust me, I am in exactly the same position. I completely understand the lack of consideration given to perspectives outside his own experience, bear in mind he qualified some time ago and with a TC straight from university. I don't think it's fair to assume everyone is able to self-fund, but if you can, it appears to be the way to go. My advice previously was based on the idea that this candidate had already undergone the very expensive process of GDL and multiple post graduate degrees on top of his undergrad.

As for everyone who isn't necessarily as fortunate. Please go and have a look at the LLM SQE process. As far as I know, not only does it qualify for a postgraduate loan, but it goes up to nearly 13 grand that is inclusive of the booking fee for the exams. On top of that you are able to do it outside of London, allowing for a lower cost of living if you were to house share in Leeds like some people I know. This combined with the potential scholarship options from BPP might allow you to bridge the gap.

 

[Chris Brown]

Love this advice and thanks for sharing. But I can’t help but feel my heart sink on the point about the LPC/SQE. I have completed a law degree but simply cannot afford to self fund the SQE. Putting the burden on my family would also be out of the question. Even a government masters loan would not include the £5000 or so required to book and sit the exams. I’m totally not shooting the messenger here as I thank you for sharing this advice, but I would encourage the partner who you spoke to think about ‘jumping straight into the SQE/LPC’ a bit more from the perspective of an average income household background law graduate. However, my commitment to practising law will always remain the same as someone who has self funded. Peace and love🫶🏼

My understanding of the original post was if a person is in the position of being able to do postgrad studies e.g., LLM’s in specialist areas of law, why haven’t they chose to do the LPC/SQE instead to qualify much sooner. By doing masters in specific areas of commercial law, it is possible that a candidate would be perceived to be less open to other practice areas (which may or may not be true). 🙂🙂

If someone can’t afford self-funding postgrad studies, it would make sense if they choose to not do a masters, LPC or SQE because of financial circumstances. For a partner to question this person’s commitment to a legal career would be unfair. I think there is now a stronger understanding of social mobility and how talent comes from all backgrounds. So I imagine partners would not expect people from socially mobile backgrounds to self fund postgrad courses without the security of a TC.

Getting a TC is also a lot more competitive now than it used to be. I remember at an open day a partner said that when they got their TC it involved a meeting with partners. Now there are WGTs and SJTs, VI’s, AC’s and all the other kinds of assessments. This makes it a lot harder to secure TC’s. I guess that’s why the SRA chose to introduce the SQE/QWE route, to increase the access into the legal profession.

I wouldn’t worry too much because people’s individual circumstances are different. 🙂🙂

I come from a socially mobile background myself. 🥲

 

[FutureTraineeMaybe]

Osborne Clarke virtual AC!

Congratulations!!!! Can i ask when you applied/which office it was for?

 

[PFOenthusiast]

Is this for London?

This is for the Bristol office

 

[PFOenthusiast]

Congratulations!!!! Can i ask when you applied/which office it was for?

Thank you! I applied on the day of the deadline, for the Bristol office

 

[andrecsaa]

For the first question, while I do not have a lot of prior knowledge about the firm, I do believe Chambers and Legal 500 rankings are good indicators for a firm's practice area focus and strengths. Based on that, it seems like Winston & Strawn is not simply a litigation boutique, but that it covers a wider array of practices to service a wider client base. Looking at its Legal 500 rankings (as Chambers only ranks its finance department), we see the firm is recognized for:

• Transactional: for finance, particularly bank lending; for corporate, particularly mid market corporate M&A and PE;
• Disputes: general commercial litigation; particularly high rankings also in international arbitration and class action defence for product liability (the highest rankings of all its practices, which I think explains the firm's reputation for disputes)
• Advisory: competition law; also its aviation and sports practices;

For the second question my interpretation would partly depend on what other questions are asked in the application form. Nonetheless, all other things being equal, I would bring the scope down to something along the lines of 'What aspects of work/types of work/work environments motivate me to excel?'. Then, I would name and expand on two or three characteristics that I can link with an experience. Finally I would make a connection to the career of a commercial solicitor and try to explain how my motivations are aligned with it.

Can I mention that one or more partners are consistently ranked, even if the firm's department is not ranked?

I am researching a firm for the direct TC, and they have two partners ranked in practices I am interested in, but the departments are not ranked.

 

[icebear]

What office are you applying for!

Reading

 

[RandomFlyer]

Congratulations! Can I please ask if this is for the summer vac scheme or direct TC? If it is for the VS, when did you do the watson glaser?

It was for the Summer Vac.

I submitted my application in early January and did the Watson Glaser on the 24th of January. My deadline for the WG was for 9:30am today.