TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[3000to1shoteverytime]

How many firms to apply to? Is 30 applications enough quite honestly?

If you have time to specifically research firms then as many as you can. With 2 to 3000 applying for each then it can be a numbers game to some extent. Those who only apply to 10 and get offers have been lucky to some extent if not falling completely in the exceptional category.

 

[Audric_T]

DLA PFO post VI

I'm sorry to hear this mate, but keep the spirits high

 

[Bread]

Hiya @Bread

I completely understand the stress around typos – I’ve been guilty of similar mistakes in the past, and I know how much it can make you second-guess things. Having spoken to other trainees at Clifford Chance, I don't think you'll be able to reapply in this cycle, but I would email grad recruitment to be sure. Although I don't think there's much that can be done about the written application, you might also want to see whether they'd be willing to extend the deadline for completing the Watson Glaser test? I know it can feel nerve-wracking, but grad rec teams are generally more understanding than many expect!

Best of luck, and don’t be too hard on yourself. Typos and written mistakes happen to more people than you’d think! If you need anything else, feel free to ask here.

Thank you! I am not too worried about the WG, just annoying that no matter how well I do in the test my application is going to get binned but oh well maybe it's fate 😌

 

[Audric_T]

Sending out positive thoughts to everyone and their applications. Still awaiting to hear if I will get the AC for DLA - praying and fingers crossed, hoping and sending out good energy preparing as though I have gotten the AC. This is the dream firm for me.

 

[Unknowncabbage]

Linklaters open day rejection‼️

 

[dekz28]

Hey @-legal- ,

Thanks for the question!

Initially, I assumed “innovative developments” would mean focusing solely on technology, particularly AI. But as with any law firm application question, it’s essential to unpack the wording carefully. Here, “innovative developments” could encompass everything from the impacts of AI to the evolution of legal services and shifting client needs. Off the top of my head, here are a few innovative developments shaping commercial law at firms like Dentons:


1. AI and Automation: This is a major development that’s reshaping the way lawyers work. While many candidates might mention AI, it’s important not to over-focus on it but to recognize its broader impact. AI tools streamline routine tasks, particularly in contract review, allowing lawyers to focus on higher-value work. Dentons’ recent release of an AI-powered contract review bot is a perfect example of this innovation in action. Tools like ThoughtRiver and Kira are also widely used across firms to quickly sift through volumes of contracts and flag risks, which is an area Dentons has invested in heavily. Such advancements let commercial lawyers dedicate more time to client-facing, strategic work, ultimately contributing to long-term revenue growth. See the [full article on Dentons’ AI bot](https://www.dentons.com/en/about-de...s-launches-ai-powered-contract-automation-bot) for more on this.


2. Sector-Specific Client Expansion: An interesting development is the shift in client focus, especially with private equity houses investing in sectors like retail and healthcare. This has significant implications for commercial lawyers, as it requires them to gain in-depth knowledge of these specific industries, adapting to a range of new challenges and regulatory frameworks. For instance, advising on compliance or intellectual property in the healthcare sector demands specialized expertise that wasn’t as central for commercial lawyers before. As firms like Dentons expand their client base across these sectors, commercial lawyers are expected to develop an increasingly broad set of skills and become well-versed in emerging industries.


3. Alternative Legal Services and Flexible Delivery Models: Another innovative trend in the legal industry is the shift toward alternative legal service providers (ALSPs) and flexible delivery models. Dentons’ own Nextlaw Labs, an innovation hub, exemplifies this shift, as it allows Dentons to explore new service models and leverage technology to provide more efficient, cost-effective solutions. This means that rather than handling high-volume, low-complexity work directly, commercial lawyers at Dentons might collaborate with ALSPs or tech-driven platforms to provide faster, more scalable solutions. This model is gaining traction as clients seek more agile and affordable options, transforming the lawyer’s role from direct service provider to strategic overseer of tech-enabled solutions.


4. Data Analytics and Predictive Insights: The use of data analytics is becoming another critical tool in the commercial lawyer’s toolkit. AI-driven platforms such as Luminance and Kira use machine learning to perform tasks like due diligence, risk assessment, and document review with incredible speed and accuracy. By using these tools, commercial lawyers can draw predictive insights from past data to assess contract risks or likely litigation outcomes, for instance. Dentons could see this technology enhancing decision-making, allowing lawyers to provide clients with data-backed strategies and solutions more quickly and with greater precision than ever before.


So its clear that each of these developments are redefining the role of commercial lawyers at Dentons. It’s no longer just about delivering legal advice; it’s about adapting to a rapidly evolving landscape of client demands, leveraging new technologies, and providing industry-specific insights across diverse sectors.


In terms of structure, adopting a paragraph for each point and hitting the nail on the head, addressing each of the points the question asks, will be a great starting points. Also ensure to reference any sources as the question also wants to dig out your research skills.


Hope you found this useful!

@Amma Usman

Hey Amma, I came across your post on the Forum about the Dentons VS question, ‘Describe how you think the innovative developments taking place in the legal industry will change the role of a commercial lawyer at Dentons. Please outline your research and reference the sources you used to inform your opinion.’ (250 words)


When I was drafting my skeleton, I thought I could make more than one point. Now, as I write down my answer, I can honestly only discuss one development and give two or three good points on how it changes commercial lawyers' roles at Dentons.


I would be grateful for any opinion you have on this.

 

[ayiiii05]

has anyone heard from paul, weiss regarding the november open day?

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Also bumping this again- if anyone could help it would be really really appreciated

Hiya @AlegalA


Just wanted to build off what @Jessica Booker said. I know the 500 word count limit might seem tight, but I think aiming for around 125 words per question is a good approach. Just try to keep your answers focused on key points, so that each response is impactful and concise.

For the first part of the question, you don’t need to directly compare Mills & Reeve to other firms. Instead, focus on what attracts you specifically to the trainee role at M&R. Here, you’ll want to highlight what makes Mills & Reeve stand out from a trainee’s perspective. For example, you could mention the six-seat training contract, since it would provide exposure to a broader range of practice areas compared to the standard four-seat structure offered by most firms. Or perhaps the chance to work across the firm’s 14 specialist sectors is something that resonates with your interests. Just make sure to be clear on why these unique aspects appeal to you!

As for discussing challenges, it’s absolutely fine to mention a challenge you anticipate in the role, especially if you can relate it to something you’ve handled or experienced before. For instance, some trainees find it challenging to adapt quickly to new seats, and if you’ve had to adjust rapidly to different tasks or environments before, this could make a great example. Similarly, managing multiple deadlines with high-quality work might be another challenge worth addressing, and sharing a previous experience with this can demonstrate your resilience and adaptability.

Best of luck with the application! Feel free to reach out if you have anymore questions

 

[Zaraa.x]

what open day was this for?

Linklaters open day rejection‼️

 

[unknownnn7372]

how many trainees does gibson dunn take

 

[Andrei Radu]

How many firms to apply to? Is 30 applications enough quite honestly?

Hey @Tintin06 this is a somewhat controversial question and the responses you get will vary according to people's different personal experiences. My view here is that there is no set number you should aim for, but simply that you should make as many high-quality applications as you can. If because of your research and writing pace that means only 10 or 15, you should not aim for 30 if that will substantially compromise each application's quality. If however your circumstances allow you to write great applications for more than 30 firms, I do not see why you should limit yourself to that.

I have actually written a longer post discussing in more depth the considerations in favor of the 'numbers game' vs 'few but honed to perfection' application strategies, you can find it quoted bellow:

2) How many law firms should I apply to?​

A first important point to consider is how many applications you will aim to submit by the end of the cycle. The question as to the ideal number of VS/TC applications is a controversial one. Firstly, it is not the kind of question that admits of a simple answer. Instead, it will be highly depended on the situation and career interests of each applicant. Secondly, there is significant substantive disagreement as to what approach is more successful. Some top recruiters and top applicants advise to be 100% focused on producing the highest possible quality of applications and to therefore only choose around 6-8 firms. Others argue that applications are more of a number's game, as the success rate at some top firms in the City is bellow 1%. Thus, they see the application process as a “number’s game” and advise on applying to as many firms as possible - sometimes in excess of 50 or 60.

I have known candidates who have been successful with both approaches, and I think there is some truth to both perspectives. On the one hand, as we well know, the application process is extremely competitive. Hence, there is not much of a point in submitting an application which does not have a high quality of research and high-quality written answers - it will have virtually no chance of being progressed. I have known people who were initially writing applications very quickly and got rejected 20 or 30 times consecutively. Upon changing their strategy to a quality-focused one, they progressed with half of the firms they subsequently applied to.

On the other hand, it is undeniable that luck is also a very significant factor, and that you should therefore aim to maximize your chances by submitting a high number of applications. In my own experience, some of the applications I had spent most time and effort on, and which I thought had some of my best writing, ended up being rejected at first stage. At the same time, some of the applications which I knew had some room for improvement ended up being progressed and eventually secured me TC offers. In my opinion, this could not be accounted by anything other than the role of luck - if anything, the firms that ended up progressing me tended to be the firms which I would have expected to be more selective. As such, I don't think you can ever write to a high enough standard that you eliminate the luck factor. Graduate recruitment teams review dozens and sometimes hundreds of applications per day, they have to reject the vast majority, and there is no perfectly objective metric to assess your application on. Some recruiters might place more emphasis on grades, some on your work experience, some on how convincing your motivations are and the quality of your written answers, some on WG/SJT scores, some on your university and degree, some on your extracurriculars and prizes, and so on. When comparing two strong applications that score well most of these categories, there is an unavoidable element of subjectivity in the recruiter's choice as to what criteria to prioritize. Since you don't know beforehand what a particular recruiter's attitude will be on the day they review your application, there is a strong argument to be made to apply to as many firms as possible. This is the only way to maximize your chances of having your application assessed by a recruiter who happens to place more emphasis on the criteria you score best in. From my personal experience, the very best of candidates (who do very well in all the aforementioned categories) only end up with a VS offer for every 1/3-1/4 of their applications.

Where does this leave you? In my opinion, as with many other things in life, the truth often lies, unclaimed, in the middle. The strategy I would advise you to employ, and the one which led to my success, is to aim to submit as many high-quality (but not necessarily absolutely perfect) applications as possible. That is, you should never submit an application just for the sake of a theoretical chance of progressing if you have not spent a sufficient amount of time researching the firm, and then writing and reviewing the application. At the same time, you cannot only be focused on attaining the absolute best – to illustrate this point, imagine you are conducting your firm research. First, you spend several hours exhausting all online resources: not only the big ones like the firm’s website, Chambers Student and the Chambers and Legal 500 rankings, but also all the legal press publications like Law.com and The Lawyer. While this is still a significantly better effort than the vast majority of applicant put in (and in my experience, definitely suffices for success), if you are 100% focused on quality you can go above and beyond that. You can reach out to many of the firm’s lawyers on LinkedIn, complete Forage experiences, contact recruiters, look for the firm’s podcasts or YouTube videos, seek to attend lots of events with the firm, and so on and so forth. Evidently, in this process you can definitely get past a point of diminishing returns – you should not spend 50 hours of work on every application to ensure you get to that absolute 100% level of quality. Assuming for illustrative purposes that writing quality could be quantified, you will have much better chances of securing a TC by sending 20 applications at 95% potential quality rather than sending four applications closer to 100%.

Thus, I think you should focus on starting to write high quality applications, and then try to write as many as you can. You might find that at the beginning it takes you longer to write great answers, but as you go through the application process and you improve your research and drafting skills, your pace might significantly improve. Initially, it took me around 2-3 weeks to have a great application, but by January I could write an application at the same level of quality in around 2 days. You will have to assess your own availability and pace to estimate how many applications you can aim to submit.

Finally, are there any actual concrete recommendations to leave you with? Firstly, in most circumstances, if you want to have at least a decent shot at securing a TC, you should not aim at anything under 10 applications. Secondly, assuming you are in a position to invest a substantial amount of time and effort in this application cycle, I think submitting around 20 high-quality applications should be attainable for most candidates. From personal experience, most people who have secured a TC have submitted at least around this number of applications. Finally, assuming you can make applications your absolute priority, it is possible to end up submitting around 40-50 good applications by the end of the cycle.

 

[g.cl.2020344]

how many trainees does gibson dunn take

I think around 10. I applied for the summer vac scheme and haven’t heard anything yet

 

[Iwanobealawyer]

Has anyone heard for Hogan Lovells post WG for WVS AC?

Hogan Lovells PFO Post-WG earlier today

 

[g.cl.2020344]

Do you think it’s ok to email Dechert again as I haven’t heard back from written exercise 15th oxt! I’ve already emailed them two weeks ago and they said I would hear soon

 

[studentdelaw786]

how many trainees does gibson dunn take

9, per their website

 

[Andrei Radu]

how many trainees does gibson dunn take

For this year the firm announced they expect to take on up to 9 trainees.

 

[Willgetthere]

Do you think it’s ok to email Dechert again as I haven’t heard back from written exercise 15th oxt! I’ve already emailed them two weeks ago and they said I would hear soon

I did my written exercise on the 17th of October and heard back today. So I’d say wait a little longer.

 

[Unknowncabbage]

what open day was this for?

The one on the 28th

 

[g.cl.2020344]

I did my written exercise on the 17th of October and heard back today. So I’d say wait a little longer.

Ok thanks! Was it good news? Idk if not hearing means bad news

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Can anyone kindly provide insights into assessment days that only consist of interviews? Davis Polk and Sullivan & Cromwell are examples of firms that do this. Does this make the process ‘easier’ or is it just as difficult as a typical assessment centre?

Hiya @studentdelaw786, I think @Andrei Radu would likely have more insight here, but I wanted to chime in and say that I think it really depends on the individual! Some people feel more pressure in partner interviews, while others prefer them over assessment days with specific tasks like drafting or negotiation exercises. Personally, I enjoy interviews and the chance to connect with people, so I've often found partner interviews to be engaging. However, I completely appreciate that this format isn’t always ideal for everyone, and isn't always the best way of gauging the full range of skills a candidate could bring to a training contract.

For interview-focused assessment days, I think it’s important to be well-prepared to discuss your background and skills confidently, as well as your knowledge of the firm’s work, especially in its London office. I've also often found that with assessment centres that consist solely of partner interview, it's common to get asked off-the-cuff questions, which can be challenging to prepare for. Again, this doesn’t necessarily make it easier or harder than other formats. It’s all about which style best suits your strengths.

Best of luck if you’re preparing!