TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

[Heartofglass]

Hi everyone! I recently did a VS and unfortunately was unsuccessful in converting it to a TC (US firm).

To be better prepared for future schemes (and out of curiosity), I wanted to ask: if you were unsuccessful in converting a VS to TC (and willing to share), what mistakes did you make that caused you to be unsuccessful?

I am asking this because, in hindsight, I realised that I only sought advice for the scheme from individuals from that specific firm that were successful in converting the VS. Thus, I think this approach introduced survivorship bias into the advice I received.

I followed their advice on the scheme, but when I got my feedback, it related to things that the advice did not cover. For instance, during the scheme, I was given a task on short notice and on the busiest day of the scheme for me (I had mandatory presentations to attend, a scheme-related assessment, and my TC interview all on the same day) and I was worried that I would not be able to finish the task by the short deadline. I explained this to my supervisor and asked if I could complete it later in the day but they said that this was not possible (it was a hard deadline) and that they will complete the task themselves. In my feedback, I was told that I should have come in earlier into the office to complete the task since this was a very competitive VS.

My advice would be to not blame yourself too much. I had my VS with an MC firm last year which was advertised to have a conversion rate of 80% (meaning they will take close to 50 out of 60). However, when I did not make the final cut, I stalked every summer VS-er and realised they only take 27, half of what they promised. Perhaps we have to look at the current economy and accept that we are at the bottom of the food chain, and we are among the first people that will get cut off to keep cost low. I just want to say this to let you know that it's not necessarily all your fault that you didn't get a TC. Just wait, spend some time to heal, find new opportunities and may your wish came true.

 

[KBanana]

In my case a couple of years ago, I was told that my written task could be better and that my commercial awareness in the final interview was not good enough. However, I received excellent feedback from my supervisor and he told grad rec that he’d give me the TC.

My particular case was with a MC firm with a high-conversion rate (upwards of 70%). However, I believe that sometimes there is no such thing as mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, not everyone is able to do everything all at once. I literally know of associates complaining about partners not being able to convert a word file into PDF or partners sending emails plagued with grammatical mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes, you learn from your mistakes.

Because the standard of TCs is so high these days and there are thousands of candidates applying, firms just need one reason to reject you post VS. Moreover, with US firms, the conversion rate is around 20-30%.

You did your best and you stayed honest by informing your supervisor about your situation. The firm clearly didn’t appreciate your honesty. Also who even gives strict deadline “real work” tasks to vac schemers lol

Keep in mind the feedback for future vacation schemes and stay positive. Not converting a VS is disappointing but it’s not the end of the world.

Thank you @LehmanBrothersRiskManagementIntern and @Heartofglass, your words do make me feel better about the whole situation.

Did you find this cycle easier with your prior VS experience?

 

[legal18]

Hey! Thanks for emailing! Did they get back to you this week or last? Hoping we get some answers by the end of next week.

They emailed May 9th!

 

[Unknowncabbage]

Hi! Can anybody give me any advice on whether my grades are good enough to apply to VS @ City law firms such as Hogan Lovells, Baker McKenzie and even White & Case.

In my first year I have got 65% overall but I only got a 54% in obligations😬
The modules I took were
-Public 65%
-Property 67%
-Remedies in Contract and Tort 68%
-Criminal law 74%
-Contemporary issues in law 62%
-obligations 54%😬

I got A*AA at A-Level and go to a RG and did manage to secure some first year schemes but I’m worried bcz of the importance of that module. I am also taking Advanced Contract and Tort in my 2nd year.

Any advice would be really helpful.

 

[Petallove1]

Hi! Can anybody give me any advice on whether my grades are good enough to apply to VS @ City law firms such as Hogan Lovells, Baker McKenzie and even White & Case.

In my first year I have got 65% overall but I only got a 54% in obligations😬
The modules I took were
-Public 65%
-Property 67%
-Remedies in Contract and Tort 68%
-Criminal law 74%
-Contemporary issues in law 62%
-obligations 54%😬

I got A*AA at A-Level and go to a RG and did manage to secure some first year schemes but I’m worried bcz of the importance of that module. I am also taking Advanced Contract and Tort in my 2nd year.

Any advice would be really helpful.

Hey! I didn't do an LLB I did a conversion, but I'd imagine if you did well in Advanced Contract and Tort that it will show you are capable in those areas irrespective and that grade is an anomaly. It also does just really depend where you apply! Some firms are more renowned for being very picky about academics (Slaughters) and others base it much more on how you come across in your applications, video interviews, and AC's - so I wouldn't worry! Also, there's absolutely no harm in applying to these places even if you are worried and seeing what happens!

 

[yxngd2x]

Hi! Can anybody give me any advice on whether my grades are good enough to apply to VS @ City law firms such as Hogan Lovells, Baker McKenzie and even White & Case.

In my first year I have got 65% overall but I only got a 54% in obligations😬
The modules I took were
-Public 65%
-Property 67%
-Remedies in Contract and Tort 68%
-Criminal law 74%
-Contemporary issues in law 62%
-obligations 54%😬

I got A*AA at A-Level and go to a RG and did manage to secure some first year schemes but I’m worried bcz of the importance of that module. I am also taking Advanced Contract and Tort in my 2nd year.

Any advice would be really helpful.

In short -- you're more than fine

 

[desperateTCseeker1998]

Hi! Can anybody give me any advice on whether my grades are good enough to apply to VS @ City law firms such as Hogan Lovells, Baker McKenzie and even White & Case.

In my first year I have got 65% overall but I only got a 54% in obligations😬
The modules I took were
-Public 65%
-Property 67%
-Remedies in Contract and Tort 68%
-Criminal law 74%
-Contemporary issues in law 62%
-obligations 54%😬

I got A*AA at A-Level and go to a RG and did manage to secure some first year schemes but I’m worried bcz of the importance of that module. I am also taking Advanced Contract and Tort in my 2nd year.

Any advice would be really helpful.

You should be fine. The only one you might not be able to apply for is Norton Rose because they require a 2:1 in the compulsory Contract and Tort modules and Obligations seems to be these two modules combined?? My uni didn't do 'Obligations' so feel free to correct me if that's not what it is lol. If your compulsory Contract and Tort law modules are structured as 'Remedies in Contract and Tort' and 'Obligations' combined then you might be fine anyway because you would've averaged a 61 across the two - might be worth emailing their grad rec and asking?

 

[Unknowncabbage]

In short -- you're more than fine

So I should be fine to apply to any firms (I’m not applying to MC anyways as they don’t appeal to me) but US firms mainly I don’t need to limit myself.

 

[Unknowncabbage]

You should be fine. The only one you might not be able to apply for is Norton Rose because they require a 2:1 in the compulsory Contract and Tort modules and Obligations seems to be these two modules combined?? My uni didn't do 'Obligations' so feel free to correct me if that's not what it is lol. If your compulsory Contract and Tort law modules are structured as 'Remedies in Contract and Tort' and 'Obligations' combined then you might be fine anyway because you would've averaged a 61 across the two - might be worth emailing their grad rec and asking?

Alright thanks, and yeah Obligations is just the foundation of contract and tort for us. I’m doing advanced contract and tort separate in my 2nd year. I don’t think I’m going to apply to Norton anyways but as long as it doesn’t limit the other US firms I can apply to I’ll be happy.

 

[Petallove1]

I have an AC this week and starting to panic a little bit about the written assessment as I haven’t done one before. I’ve been told this firm specifically is less technical and more common sense based where you should bring in commercial awareness where possible. Does anyone have any good advice for managing their time, structuring your answer, etc? Would really appreciate it

 

[LehmanBrothersRiskManagementIntern]

Thank you @LehmanBrothersRiskManagementIntern and @Heartofglass, your words do make me feel better about the whole situation.

Did you find this cycle easier with your prior VS experience?

It comes down to many factors. From my point of view, it does not become either "easier" or harder . It depends on the quality of your applications, how you sell yourself, and how you leverage your previous vac scheme. However, having a VS on the CV certainly does help in the sense that you have more knowledge of the profession and a sophisticated commercial awareness. But it does not lead to receiving multiple TC offers (possible but rare, as law firms look for a range of qualities in a candidate).

 

[Aaj03]

I have an upcoming interview with A&O Shearman for a role. However, I completed my application before the merger was announced formally, hence, my motivation was just for an individual firm. The interview guide stated that I would be asked about my motivation for wanting to join the firm, does anyone have any advice or how I can go about this to make sure I can get my interest across properly and I don't know if i could talk about deals that have interested me without making it seem like I am answering a motivation question for an individual firm.
The only thing that is universal across the board are DEI, Innovation, Virtual work experience programme, practice areas (but only pre-merger deals on the website and some that i spoke about in my written application- can I use this?)
Additionally, I am now confused about the type of question I would ask at the end regarding the role...
Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

 

[AS24]

I have an upcoming interview with A&O Shearman for a role. However, I completed my application before the merger was announced formally, hence, my motivation was just for an individual firm. The interview guide stated that I would be asked about my motivation for wanting to join the firm, does anyone have any advice or how I can go about this to make sure I can get my interest across properly and I don't know if i could talk about deals that have interested me without making it seem like I am answering a motivation question for an individual firm.
The only thing that is universal across the board are DEI, Innovation, Virtual work experience programme, practice areas (but only pre-merger deals on the website and some that i spoke about in my written application- can I use this?)
Additionally, I am now confused about the type of question I would ask at the end regarding the role...
Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

Congrats! Can I ask when you heard back from A&O Shearman and when you applied?

 

[Aaj03]

Congrats! Can I ask when you heard back from A&O Shearman and when you applied?

I heard back this Friday and applied on the 27th of April

 

[bangarangbass39]

Anyone heard back from the Government Legal Profession diversity scheme?

 

[mp2000]

Is everyone else still waiting to hear back from SH? Should I be expecting a PFO at this point?

 

[clyde1313]

Is everyone else still waiting to hear back from SH? Should I be expecting a PFO at this point?

I am still waiting as well, not sure what's going on. I remember reading here that it took them very long to assess applications for the spring VS so they might be having the same issue now.

 

[annalisekeating]

Is there any point applying to White and Case's Direct TC? Or other firms if they recruit mostly from the vac schemes...

 

[midnightsky990422]

Hi @Jaysen @Jessica Booker I have just secured my first ever vacation scheme with a national firm!!! I’m a non-law grad with good commercial experience over the last 18 months but no real knowledge of academic law, do you have any tips for me to maximise my chances of converting it to a TC? I believe the firm take 10-ish vac schemers and recruit trainees predominantly from this route, although there is a direct entry. Thanks!!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jaysen @Jessica Booker I have just secured my first ever vacation scheme with a national firm!!! I’m a non-law grad with good commercial experience over the last 18 months but no real knowledge of academic law, do you have any tips for me to maximise my chances of converting it to a TC? I believe the firm take 10-ish vac schemers and recruit trainees predominantly from this route, although there is a direct entry. Thanks!!

There is some great advice in these threads and posts:

Thread 'Converting your vacation scheme into a training contract - top tips in 2021'
https://www.thecorporatelawacademy....to-a-training-contract-top-tips-in-2021.3454/

Convert your vacation scheme into a training contract | The Corporate Law Academy​

We spoke to Rosie Watterson, founder of the blog Apply.Shine.Win, to learn how students can convert their vacation scheme into a training contract offer.

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

Post in thread 'TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24'
https://www.thecorporatelawacademy....ns-discussion-thread-2023-24.8037/post-169320