TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

[ayiiii05]

Hoping and praying for NRF VI and Travers interview ugh, NRF results were 5 to the right, 3 to the left, rest in the middle 😭

 

[axelbeugre]

@Jessica Booker @axelbeugre

Hi Jessica and Axel! (+ anyone else who’d like to give advice)

Unfortunately a firm I really like has PFO’d me for their vac schemes but I know I can reapply for their TC’s and I’m hopeful about it - What changes do you think I should make to show my continued interest to work at the firm? My rejection was post VI so I think there might be something to do with that given it was my first VI. Thank you!!

A lot of firms suggest to not reapply to the direct training contract route if you have been rejected the same here unless substantive change to your application has been made, as in you have done an interesting work experience.

I personally would not apply because your chances of succeeding with this firm might be a big slim. I was in your same shoes with W&C last year before receiving my training contract offer from another firm I was considering applying after the video interview stage but I got the advice to not apply to the direct training contract route as nothing in my application would have changed apart adding a vacation scheme from a US firm. They tend to reserve the spots for people who cannot attend the scheme or who work full-time, understandably so.

What I would do if I were in your shoes is speaking to people who were successful in the process this year, ask them how they passed the video interview stage and make sure that you implement these tips and suggestions in the next cycle.

Unless you have had other vacation scheme offers that you can put in your application, I personally would not apply again as it is really difficult to succeed with those especially if you got already rejected the same application cycle, since your competition will have the edge of not being in your position if that makes sense.

However, if you feel like you still have a good chance then I would recommend keep learning about the firm through their LinkedIn and social media pages as well as the website, speaking with people at the firm, from future trainees to associates, and rewrite the answers you provided in the applications.

I also shared some tips on passing video interviews which I think you would find useful: https://www.thecorporatelawacademy.com/forum/threads/how-to-prepare-for-a-law-firm-video-interview-a-step-by-step-guide-⭐️.8346/ and https://www.thecorporatelawacademy....ns-discussion-thread-2023-24.8037/post-151491

I also recently wrote a guide with more tips: https://www.thecorporatelawacademy....ns-discussion-thread-2023-24.8037/post-167426

I hope this helps!

 

[axelbeugre]

The 2 Paul Hastings questions seem awfully similar ?? Why do you wish to complete a work placement with us? and What has attracted you to Paul Hastings?

1) I think that the first questions pushes you to mention 2/3 reasons as to why you would practically benefit from the experience at the firm. Here, I would talk about the chance of meeting inspiring partners and associates whose work you admire and like, the chance of experiencing the practical tasks of a trainee at the firm and understanding the culture of the firm for instance.
2) Here, I would list the 2/3 reasons for which I am applying to the firm: is it a particular practice area the firm excels at? Is it the deals and cases the firm works on? Is it the type of clients the firm deals with? Is it the pro bono opportunities which attracted you most? All these considerations could be made in this answer, which have to be very specific to the firm.

 

[lbiro98]

Mayer Brown AC!!

(Spring VS)

Hii, have you received any tips on what the AC is? I have mine and could really use some advice as I am freaking outt ahaha

 

[TC seeker]

Hoping and praying for NRF VI and Travers interview ugh, NRF results were 5 to the right, 3 to the left, rest in the middle 😭

Do you know what the left and right means in their test？it seems like most of mine were in the middle？

 

[LawJourney101]

I assume interviews have already been given out for NRF so no point thinking about it now. I had all of mine in the middle 2/3 to the left and 2 to the right. Didn't get an interview (awaiting rejection email, although idk if they send those).

 

[Broadwater]

On the NRF test, I highly doubt it's material how many of the results were "left" or "right". Rather, it will matter which specific attributes we landed on either side and how that matches the attributes NRF are looking for

 

[-legal-]

Do you mean interview with partners, associates or graduate recruitment right? If so, yes, you are expected to ask questions at the end. If you mean a classic video interview then no.

In terms of questions, it really depends on you and what you want to know about the firm or the interviewers. I personally always asked about their favourite deal or case they worked on, their favourite client, why they decided to pursue a career in law.

Yes, its a video interview with graduate recruitment so would the questions have to be tailored to graduate recruitment or can they be about the firm in general?

 

[studentdelaw786]

I assume interviews have already been given out for NRF so no point thinking about it now. I had all of mine in the middle 2/3 to the left and 2 to the right. Didn't get an interview (awaiting rejection email, although idk if they send those).

how do you know interviews have been given out??

 

[laby201]

I assume interviews have already been given out for NRF so no point thinking about it now. I had all of mine in the middle 2/3 to the left and 2 to the right. Didn't get an interview (awaiting rejection email, although idk if they send those).

I definitely wouldn’t assume that all interviews have been given out. I’ve only seen 2 people on the forum say they’ve received an interview and I know a lot of people applied for NRF.

Very likely another batch will follow.

And I really wouldn’t put too much focus on the test either, we have no idea what’s measured so we’d all just drive ourselves insane if we were comparing it who has X amount to the right/left/middle.

 

[LawJourney101]

On the NRF test, I highly doubt it's material how many of the results were "left" or "right". Rather, it will matter which specific attributes we landed on either side and how that matches the attributes NRF are looking for

I only applied to NRF honestly, as it was the only firm with apps still open (Just decided to do a conversion), but I am surprised that these are the criteria they use to hire trainees. My left ones were related to risk I think.. not sure though as I haven't checked since the test.

 

[LawJourney101]

I only applied to NRF honestly, as it was the only firm with apps still open (Just decided to do a conversion), but I am surprised that these are the criteria they use to hire trainees. My left ones were related to risk I think.. not sure though as I haven't checked since the test.

I definitely wouldn’t assume that all interviews have been given out. I’ve only seen 2 people on the forum say they’ve received an interview and I know a lot of people applied for NRF.

Very likely another batch will follow.

And I really wouldn’t put too much focus on the test either, we have no idea what’s measured so we’d all just drive ourselves insane if we were comparing it who has X amount to the right/left/middle.

In that case ignore what I have written. Very much new to the process.

 

[ayiiii05]

Do you know what the left and right means in their test？it seems like most of mine were in the middle？

From what it said on the feedback report, left or right means you exhibit a quality differently from other people, I assumed left meant less and right meant more but I could be wrong- but by what other people are saying on the forum we shouldn’t focus too much on this and employers will just check to see if our report matches the qualities they’re looking for!

 

[laby201]

I'm really confuse about how they use the test to conclude the candidates' quality, it seems like the test only has the games.

There is a science behind it, and the firm must believe it's a reliable indicator of the personality traits they're looking for.

I'm not a fan of it but don't think many firms offer it anymore if I'm honest, so easy enough to avoid 😂

 

[hanz123]

What are the best questions to ask at the end of a partner interview?

 

[LehmanBrothersRiskManagementIntern]

There is a science behind it, and the firm must believe it's a reliable indicator of the personality traits they're looking for.

I'm not a fan of it but don't think many firms offer it anymore if I'm honest, so easy enough to avoid 😂

Yeah, and the science behind had a sample size of 100-200 students. I personally think it's ridiculous to use these tests, as some of the people that always failed at the WG or other time-wasting assessments are now associates at top firms where they didn't have to do it.

 

[Jessica Booker]

What are the best questions to ask at the end of a partner interview?

Genuine questions you want the answer to that will help you find out more about the topics you are intrigued to learn more about in regards to the firm or why people work there.

Make sure they are not obvious questions (e.g. things that you can easily find on the website) - often questions that ask for people experiences or opinions on topics that are important to you are good approaches to take.

 

[laby201]

Yeah, and the science behind had a sample size of 100-200 students. I personally think it's ridiculous to use these tests, as some of the people that always failed at the WG or other time-wasting assessments are now associates at top firms where they didn't have to do it.

It's difficult, but I disagree on the WG point as performing highly in it directly correlates to your ability to critically analyse well and how you process information, which are key skills for a lawyer. There's a reason why firms like Freshfields, Clifford Chance, and Hogan Lovells all use it.

I'm not saying you couldn't be an associate at a top firm by getting an average score in the WG, but the rationale behind firms using it is logical at least.

 

[hanz123]

Genuine questions you want the answer to that will help you find out more about the topics you are intrigued to learn more about in regards to the firm or why people work there.

Make sure they are not obvious questions (e.g. things that you can easily find on the website) - often questions that ask for people experiences or opinions on topics that are important to you are good approaches to take.

Thank you Jessica!

 

[LehmanBrothersRiskManagementIntern]

It's difficult, but I disagree on the WG point as performing highly in it directly correlates to your ability to critically analyse well and how you process information, which are key skills for a lawyer. There's a reason why firms like Freshfields, Clifford Chance, and Hogan Lovells all use it.

I'm not saying you couldn't be an associate at a top firm by getting an average score in the WG, but the rationale behind firms using it is logical at least.

As there are plenty of peer-reviewed papers showing the usefulness of the WG, there are also plenty of papers showing that the WG is deeply flawed. I know someone who graduated with a first in PPE and received the academic prize for the highest mark. He always used to score 20-25 out of 40. I don't think this person lacks critical thinking skills, as his degree was PPE. He also got a TC at a well-known firm.

I was also told by grad rec from the firm where I did the vac scheme that they use the WG to filter out the number of app (for example, Linklaters rejecting people with 38/40 and taking people with 25/40).

However, I agree with your point about firms using to measure your critical thinking skills. But that doesn't necessary mean that the WG is fully reliable. There is plenty of evidence which points to its flaws. Also the sample size is too small to infer that it is indeed a reliable tool of recruitment. I simply think that it's used to cut down apps. I have been told this by grad rec, associates, etc. But again, it comes down to your own views on it,