TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

[LawJourney101]

I only applied to NRF honestly, as it was the only firm with apps still open (Just decided to do a conversion), but I am surprised that these are the criteria they use to hire trainees. My left ones were related to risk I think.. not sure though as I haven't checked since the test.

I definitely wouldn’t assume that all interviews have been given out. I’ve only seen 2 people on the forum say they’ve received an interview and I know a lot of people applied for NRF.

Very likely another batch will follow.

And I really wouldn’t put too much focus on the test either, we have no idea what’s measured so we’d all just drive ourselves insane if we were comparing it who has X amount to the right/left/middle.

In that case ignore what I have written. Very much new to the process.

 

[ayiiii05]

Do you know what the left and right means in their test？it seems like most of mine were in the middle？

From what it said on the feedback report, left or right means you exhibit a quality differently from other people, I assumed left meant less and right meant more but I could be wrong- but by what other people are saying on the forum we shouldn’t focus too much on this and employers will just check to see if our report matches the qualities they’re looking for!

 

[laby201]

I'm really confuse about how they use the test to conclude the candidates' quality, it seems like the test only has the games.

There is a science behind it, and the firm must believe it's a reliable indicator of the personality traits they're looking for.

I'm not a fan of it but don't think many firms offer it anymore if I'm honest, so easy enough to avoid 😂

 

[hanz123]

What are the best questions to ask at the end of a partner interview?

 

[LehmanBrothersRiskManagementIntern]

There is a science behind it, and the firm must believe it's a reliable indicator of the personality traits they're looking for.

I'm not a fan of it but don't think many firms offer it anymore if I'm honest, so easy enough to avoid 😂

Yeah, and the science behind had a sample size of 100-200 students. I personally think it's ridiculous to use these tests, as some of the people that always failed at the WG or other time-wasting assessments are now associates at top firms where they didn't have to do it.

 

[Jessica Booker]

What are the best questions to ask at the end of a partner interview?

Genuine questions you want the answer to that will help you find out more about the topics you are intrigued to learn more about in regards to the firm or why people work there.

Make sure they are not obvious questions (e.g. things that you can easily find on the website) - often questions that ask for people experiences or opinions on topics that are important to you are good approaches to take.

 

[laby201]

Yeah, and the science behind had a sample size of 100-200 students. I personally think it's ridiculous to use these tests, as some of the people that always failed at the WG or other time-wasting assessments are now associates at top firms where they didn't have to do it.

It's difficult, but I disagree on the WG point as performing highly in it directly correlates to your ability to critically analyse well and how you process information, which are key skills for a lawyer. There's a reason why firms like Freshfields, Clifford Chance, and Hogan Lovells all use it.

I'm not saying you couldn't be an associate at a top firm by getting an average score in the WG, but the rationale behind firms using it is logical at least.

 

[hanz123]

Genuine questions you want the answer to that will help you find out more about the topics you are intrigued to learn more about in regards to the firm or why people work there.

Make sure they are not obvious questions (e.g. things that you can easily find on the website) - often questions that ask for people experiences or opinions on topics that are important to you are good approaches to take.

Thank you Jessica!

 

[LehmanBrothersRiskManagementIntern]

It's difficult, but I disagree on the WG point as performing highly in it directly correlates to your ability to critically analyse well and how you process information, which are key skills for a lawyer. There's a reason why firms like Freshfields, Clifford Chance, and Hogan Lovells all use it.

I'm not saying you couldn't be an associate at a top firm by getting an average score in the WG, but the rationale behind firms using it is logical at least.

As there are plenty of peer-reviewed papers showing the usefulness of the WG, there are also plenty of papers showing that the WG is deeply flawed. I know someone who graduated with a first in PPE and received the academic prize for the highest mark. He always used to score 20-25 out of 40. I don't think this person lacks critical thinking skills, as his degree was PPE. He also got a TC at a well-known firm.

I was also told by grad rec from the firm where I did the vac scheme that they use the WG to filter out the number of app (for example, Linklaters rejecting people with 38/40 and taking people with 25/40).

However, I agree with your point about firms using to measure your critical thinking skills. But that doesn't necessary mean that the WG is fully reliable. There is plenty of evidence which points to its flaws. Also the sample size is too small to infer that it is indeed a reliable tool of recruitment. I simply think that it's used to cut down apps. I have been told this by grad rec, associates, etc. But again, it comes down to your own views on it,

 

[TC seeker]

As there are plenty of peer-reviewed papers showing the usefulness of the WG, there are also plenty of papers showing that the WG is deeply flawed. I know someone who graduated with a first in PPE and received the academic prize for the highest mark. He always used to score 20-25 out of 40. I don't think this person lacks critical thinking skills, as his degree was PPE. He also got a TC at a well-known firm.

I was also told by grad rec from the firm where I did the vac scheme that they use the WG to filter out the number of app (for example, Linklaters rejecting people with 38/40 and taking people with 25/40).

However, I agree with your point about firms using to measure your critical thinking skills. But that doesn't necessary mean that the WG is fully reliable. There is plenty of evidence which points to its flaws. Also the sample size is too small to infer that it is indeed a reliable tool of recruitment. I simply think that it's used to cut down apps. I have been told this by grad rec, associates, etc. But again, it comes down to your own views on it,

Do you know the reason they rejecting people with 38 and taking who with 25?

 

[yasmars]

It's difficult, but I disagree on the WG point as performing highly in it directly correlates to your ability to critically analyse well and how you process information, which are key skills for a lawyer. There's a reason why firms like Freshfields, Clifford Chance, and Hogan Lovells all use it.

I'm not saying you couldn't be an associate at a top firm by getting an average score in the WG, but the rationale behind firms using it is logical at least.

Hmm I get your point, but I think doing well in my law degree directly correlates to my ability to critically analyse well and process information etc, not a test that purposefully tries to trip people up. Firms use these tests to filter the 1000s of applications they get.

 

[LehmanBrothersRiskManagementIntern]

Do you know the reason they rejecting people with 38 and taking who with 25?

Yes, the people with 25/40 did very well in the CAPP assessment.

 

[laby201]

As there are plenty of peer-reviewed papers showing the usefulness of the WG, there are also plenty of papers showing that the WG is deeply flawed. I know someone who graduated with a first in PPE and received the academic prize for the highest mark. He always used to score 20-25 out of 40. I don't think this person lacks critical thinking skills, as his degree was PPE. He also got a TC at a well-known firm.

I was also told by grad rec from the firm where I did the vac scheme that they use the WG to filter out the number of app (for example, Linklaters rejecting people with 38/40 and taking people with 25/40).

However, I agree with your point about firms using to measure your critical thinking skills. But that doesn't necessary mean that the WG is fully reliable. There is plenty of evidence which points to its flaws. Also the sample size is too small to infer that it is indeed a reliable tool of recruitment. I simply think that it's used to cut down apps. I have been told this by grad rec, associates, etc. But again, it comes down to your own views on it,

I 100% agree that you could still perform averagely on the WG and still go on to thrive at an elite firm, and I also agree that in many ways it likely is just an effective way of cutting down applicants. When you get 4,000 applicants like some of the MC firms do, a test like the WG is a straightforward and mostly useful way of doing that.

My main point is though I still understand the point of it: it evaluates your ability to critically analyse, interpret information, and review arguments, which will all be useful as a lawyer. However, I’m less convinced of the benefits of Arctic Shores as I don’t think your ability to remember a sequence, pop balloons, or how long you want to last on that unlocking exercise before you throw your laptop across the room do reflect any abilities to perform well on a VS/TC.

 

[elektrajenkov]

Thank you! I haven't heard anything yet I was in the middle dot for the majority, with about 50/50 to the left/right.

When did you submit your application if you don't mind me asking? I know it's non-rolling but I love the firm and scrambling!

Definitely would not worry, I feel like I read somewhere they weren't expected to get back to people until March so I'm guessing they do batches. Also, given it's an interview with someone from grad recruitment, I'm guessing it depends on who is reading your application/doing the interview because mine was from a specific person rather than the general email. I submitted my application late on the deadline (I remember stressing trying to get it in on time while on holiday 8 hours behind with my friend waiting to leave for a hike )

 

[Jessica Booker]

Do you know the reason they rejecting people with 38 and taking who with 25?

They will be looking at other assessment scores or information from the application form in conjunction with the WG assessment

 

[laby201]

Hmm I get your point, but I think doing well in my law degree directly correlates to my ability to critically analyse well and process information etc, not a test that purposefully tries to trip people up. Firms use these tests to filter the 1000s of applications they get.

Oh yeah I’m not disputing at all that its primary goal is to filter applicants, but I can at least understand the rationale behind the test. Less so on Arctic Shores or any games based assessments; I just think they’re stupid 😂😂

 

[Soprano]

I applied W&C in November. Heard nothing back. Should I assume a rejection?

 

[axelbeugre]

Yes, its a video interview with graduate recruitment so would the questions have to be tailored to graduate recruitment or can they be about the firm in general?

If it is with graduate recruitment, I personally asked about the firm, the training contract structure, international opportunities, how can I be involved in pro bono at the firm, flexibility in choosing pro bono matters, skills of a successful trainee. These are some of the questions I would ask.

 

[GWJlaw]

@axelbeugre @Jessica Booker

Hiya,

I was wondering if you think there are any advantages of completing a 2 week summer scheme over a 1 week spring scheme. A firm has given me the option of both and I feel like having the extra week may allow for extra coffee chats or time to build rapport. Do you know if factors like this will be considered when assessing candidates for TCs? I want to give myself the best chance

To that point, do you have any tips with how to succeed on a vacation scheme?

Thanks so much for all the help!

 

[desperateTCseeker1998]

What is the pay generally like with flexlegal in london? And how long are the projects from people's experience?