TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

[brieflybrilliant]

even on last year forum, I feel like I remember there being this huge debate on diversity & inclusion and how much law firms consider it and oxbridge grads and them in the picture, etc yada yada

at the end of the day, this process is difficult as it is, we know how the legal industry is, we are aware of the unfair advantages some people can have regardless of oxbridge or having connections or whatever it may be, we know that the legal industry is trying to move towards diversifying in the bigger picture and its been mentioned before, its never going to be a resolved problem.

its always going to be an ongoing topic that will be addressed time and time again. u have to keep at it in this process and see how you can sell yourself when you get to those final stages. thinking about ur competitors being oxbridge or what they have had that you haven't had and putting them up for debate is pointless because it'll be a cyclical argument we'll be stuck in.

do ur best regardless and even if u think 'yeah but im X,Y,Z and I havent had these opps that other people have had', the brutal truth is, it'll honestly jus be a repetitive and destructive cycle and a way of thinking that no-one can help with, jus think about the experiences you do have and try and maximise that out. we cant change the recruitment process or how candidates are judged so the only thing we can worry about is how we jus sell ourselves at this point

everyone works hard, yes sometimes we might not be as polished compared to others who may have been guided to be but this process isn't easy and u jus need one firm to recognise ur potential and worth (which they 1000% will)

[from a BAME, fellow non oxbridge]

 

[law2022x]

This isnt true unfortunately (I am BAME and went to a state school). Almost all of us struggle in some way at Oxbridge, it is just about how much you show it lol. Achieving top marks at Oxbridge is undoubtedly difficult regardless of your background

I am the same but as we both know the stats show that privately educated students are more likely to achieve firsts in first year than state educated. And given most apply for vac schemes in second year, those are the only grades firms can rely on. Plus it is just more difficult as a state educated student because you might struggle to afford vac accommodation or can’t afford a tutor. Several people I know had a tutor for finals. The stats do become more equal in final year but yeah top marks in first year are affected by your background. Especially law students who sit their exams in second term.

 

[OB1465]

I go to Oxford and have only got through to one AC, with several friends of mine being rejected from every firm after application stage. I think this is largely down to a lack of work experience. At Oxford you are not allowed to work during term time due to the workload and, since we have exams at the start of every term, finding time for legal work experience is difficult. The tutors also prepare their students mostly for academia so you are not encouraged to look into careers at an early stage. Not to mention that balancing applications with uni is insanely difficult eg. doing three essays a week, whilst writing applications/doing tests/ prepping for interviews etc.

So the oxbridge name certainly isn’t a guarantee for getting vac schemes/ TCs though I do agree that the tutorial system/ having things in common with oxbridge educated interviewers definitely helps at AC stage. I also think it’s crucial not to undermine the extent to which Oxbridge takes into account your social background in the application process (though this isn’t perfect by any means). There are many state-educated, BAME, and generally under-represented students at Oxbridge who got in of their own merit so I think it’s unfair to lump all oxbridge students together when being at oxbridge is not always down to privilege!

I completely understand the frustration but just because a firm has a high oxbridge intake that doesn’t mean they are all Eton-educated white men, whilst in some ways going to oxbridge puts you at a disadvantage due to the difficulties of getting experience. I’m in my final year and only know of three people with jobs lined up - many have been unable to get jobs/ want a few years off to recover!

 

[Jessica Booker]

** PLEASE READ**

I realise I haven’t helped this but we have completely derailed this thread.

If anyone wants to keep this debate up about diversity or Oxbridge, please start a new thread in the general discussions section of the forum, so people who only want vacation scheme updates can keep an eye out for them.

 

[SaLM]

Do you know whether all offices are giving responses or just the london one atm?

I'm not sure as I only applied to London - if the other offices have ACs still to run then I assume it was just London.
If you go to their application hub your status should have been updated to either withdrawn/rejected or offer made

 

[Bread]

I really don't think the argument that people who go to Oxbridge work harder than others because Oxbridge is difficult and intense is a fair one. People are plenty hard working and intelligent wherever they go. It's not justifiable to say (or imply) that Oxbridge people are more intelligent than anyone who doesn't go there.

I did not say or imply that, I don’t even go there 😂
I was trying to rationalise why there appears to be a prevalence of Oxbridge students at ACs, but as it turns out it doesn’t make a big difference. I just think it’s counterproductive to pin rejection on a class of people having an “edge,” whether it be Oxbridge students or as someone said earlier minorities?!?? That’s got to be the worst take I’ve seen on this forum. Anyway, wishing you the best of luck for your applications

 

[Zi48]

Do any other neurodivergents here struggle with some of the tests these firms require?

I am never going to be able to perform well when given a picture of a face and asked what mood that person is in.

Mayer Brown’s communication styles part of the test, where you were given three paragraphs of text and five responses and asked to link the responses to the paragraph that most matches its communication style, was also a struggle—they were all the bloody same.

I can’t help but feel these tests just set me up for failure. I write strong applications but I’m always rejected after these stupid tests.

Edit: Browne Jacobson agrees - https://www.brownejacobson.com/about/news-media/thinking-outside-the-box

For Mayer Brown’s test they offer extra time if you request adjustments, I believe they can also consider it retrospectively if you didn’t request the adjustments before the test.

I would definitely disclose your neurodiversity to firms to see what adjustments they may have

 

[3000to1shoteverytime]

If you hypothetically had two vac scheme offers on clashing dates so could only accept one - how would go about deciding which one to choose in this situation?
One of the firms I have been fortunate enough to receive an offer from is well-regarded and has a reputation for converting the majority of its vac schemers to TC offers. The other firm, however, is arguably more prestigious (better paid) and aligns more closely with my long term career interests, but has a much lower conversion rate to TCs.
Essentially trying to weigh-up the choice between picking the firm I like more (riskier but may offer better career prospects if it works out) vs the firm with more certainty of getting a TC.

I guess it comes down to how much do you back yourself. Ask the other of they will consider you direct for TC instead.

 

[Seven]

If you hypothetically had two vac scheme offers on clashing dates so could only accept one - how would go about deciding which one to choose in this situation?
One of the firms I have been fortunate enough to receive an offer from is well-regarded and has a reputation for converting the majority of its vac schemers to TC offers. The other firm, however, is arguably more prestigious (better paid) and aligns more closely with my long term career interests, but has a much lower conversion rate to TCs.
Essentially trying to weigh-up the choice between picking the firm I like more (riskier but may offer better career prospects if it works out) vs the firm with more certainty of getting a TC.

I would honestly go with the firm that has more certainty of getting a TC to minimise your chances of having to go through yet another application cycle. You could always laterally move once you become a qualified associate. The salary for most trainees at well-regarded firms are usually the same (c. 50k-55k). It's only at the associate stage which you'll see the big difference.

 

[Kodak123]

This isnt true unfortunately (I am BAME and went to a state school). Almost all of us struggle in some way at Oxbridge, it is just about how much you show it lol. Achieving top marks at Oxbridge is undoubtedly difficult regardless of your background

Facts, it’s like they don’t get

 

[bangarangbass39]

Hey, where did you find your portal? I can’t find mine for some reason. Also do you know if they r sending out calls and emails about results? I also did the AC with you🥲

If you go to the website where you application is stored. The log in for careers at Fieldfisher. It will show the application you submitted and its status. I don't want to say that's what their verdict is. It just shocked me that an update like that had been made without me knowing. I only noticed this because I wanted to go through a response I submitted for a similar question that came up in another application. Take my information very lightly as you won't know what they think until they say.

 

[Jessica Booker]

If you hypothetically had two vac scheme offers on clashing dates so could only accept one - how would go about deciding which one to choose in this situation?
One of the firms I have been fortunate enough to receive an offer from is well-regarded and has a reputation for converting the majority of its vac schemers to TC offers. The other firm, however, is arguably more prestigious (better paid) and aligns more closely with my long term career interests, but has a much lower conversion rate to TCs.
Essentially trying to weigh-up the choice between picking the firm I like more (riskier but may offer better career prospects if it works out) vs the firm with more certainty of getting a TC.

I’d choose the firm you can see yourself most likely wanting to work for.

Obviously you could look at how likely you are to convert, but ultimately turning down a firm is one of the quickest way to shut a door to being hired by that firm in the near future.

 

[mfuturetrainee]

@Jessica Booker this might be a really silly q but suppose you failed at an AC stage with a firm, if you applied at the firm again in the consecutive cycle, does it look unfavourable on you if they're considering whether to invite you to an ac stage again or not, would they consider the fact you failed last time?

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker this might be a really silly q but suppose you failed at an AC stage with a firm, if you applied at the firm again in the consecutive cycle, does it look unfavourable on you if they're considering whether to invite you to an ac stage again or not, would they consider the fact you failed last time?

Thr firm will likely want to see some form of development in your application to consider warrant bringing you through to next stage again. There can be a thinking as to why the outcome would be any different to the first time if there is nothing that evidences some form of opportunity to develop the skills/motivations/capabilities that needed to be stronger in the first set of assessments. But if you can demonstrate this, I don’t think you are at a disadvantage - in some instances, it may be an advantage as they may have seen a lot of positives in you the first time and are just hoping you develop in key areas (and that you reapply).

 

[lawgurl90]

Hi! Has anyone done the Macfarlanes AC? I would appreciate any insight!

 

[SemperParatus]

Anything from arnold & porter?

 

[Petallove1]

I think there are many ways you can approach this and no one way is the right way.

The first thing is to set how you have decided the criteria to differentiate them by. That could be a whole host of things:

Practice areas
Sector focus
Strategy (and then broken down into a whole range of sub categories within strategy)
Client relationships
Technology
Alternative Services
Values
How the train/develop people
Reward or recognition structures or processes

You then need to explain why you feel this category is important, but then also provide any evidence rationale as to why they are doing what they are is different to the norm of other law firms.

@Jessica Booker Do you think it's best to lead with one of these, explain its importance, and give a specific example of how it differentiates itself in that area from another competitor?

 

[Kodak123]

Thr firm will likely want to see some form of development in your application to consider warrant bringing you through to next stage again. There can be a thinking as to why the outcome would be any different to the first time if there is nothing that evidences some form of opportunity to develop the skills/motivations/capabilities that needed to be stronger in the first set of assessments. But if you can demonstrate this, I don’t think you are at a disadvantage - in some instances, it may be an advantage as they may have seen a lot of positives in you the first time and are just hoping you develop in key areas (and that you reapply).

What if you just had poor performance on the day?

 

[Jessica Booker]

What if you just had poor performance on the day?

A poor performance still means there are development points though, even if that someone needs to be more confident or consistent in their performance.

 

[phoebenyyau]

Hi anyone still waiting to hear from Ashurst post test and White & Case post app? Not sure if I should take it as a sign of rejection or keep waiting.