TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2023-24

[Apple]

It is a bit ironic as they were one of the first law firms to partner with the 93 percent Club, so not sure on their working class people selection. BUT one of the firms which puts a lot of stress on getting a first at degree level, over other factors- nearly everyone on linked with this trait imo

Comprehensive school and didnt get a first, got to final stage with Slaughters.

 

[Miss Chocolate]

Also, has anyone heard back from Stephenson Harwood? They aren't responding to my emails and I tried getting in touch with someone from the Future Talents team but apparently they have left the team!

@Jessica Booker I couldn't find the contact details for their recruitment team in Dubai office (stalked their website and LinkedIn). Do you suppose the UK team recruits for the office?

 

[CHLTC]

just got rejected from Macfarlanes post AC, yet to recieve feedback from them. I think my negotiations, interview and casestudy went really well. However, the written exercise was torture i dont think i sufficiently answered the question. Keeping my head up, it was my first AC. Hopefully more to come im still awaiting responses from a few firms post application and and post vi. Fingers crossed!

What was the day like? What sort of stuff were you asked ? What did they ask you about for the case study and written exercise ?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Also, has anyone heard back from Stephenson Harwood? They aren't responding to my emails and I tried getting in touch with someone from the Future Talents team but apparently they have left the team!

@Jessica Booker I couldn't find the contact details for their recruitment team in Dubai office (stalked their website and LinkedIn). Do you suppose the UK team recruits for the office?

It’s a possibility - you could contact the London office to see if they could help. Another thing to try is calling their switchboard (general firm number on their website) to see if they can direct you to the best person to speak to.

 

[Miss Chocolate]

It’s a possibility - you could contact the London office to see if they could help. Another thing to try is calling their switchboard (general firm number on their website) to see if they can direct you to the best person to speak to.

Thank you! I did call the switchboard and also the number listed on their website for Future Talents Team but it didn't go through. Sent them a message on Instagram as well. I will try again on Monday!

 

[ljms]

Do any other neurodivergents here struggle with some of the tests these firms require?

I am never going to be able to perform well when given a picture of a face and asked what mood that person is in.

Mayer Brown’s communication styles part of the test, where you were given three paragraphs of text and five responses and asked to link the responses to the paragraph that most matches its communication style, was also a struggle—they were all the bloody same.

I can’t help but feel these tests just set me up for failure. I write strong applications but I’m always rejected after these stupid tests.

Edit: Browne Jacobson agrees - https://www.brownejacobson.com/about/news-media/thinking-outside-the-box

 

[aspiringcatsolicitor]

Anyone heard from:

- Mischon summer (post-app)
- Withers summer (post-online test)
- Ashurst summer (post-online test)

 

[Bread]

People seem to forget that Oxbridge is difficult and very intense — people achieving top marks there are likely to be hard-working, intelligent, or both. As far as work experience is concerned, due to the intensity of the courses there students are heavily discouraged from seeking paid work during term time (it’s a uni policy), so it’s unsurprising that Oxbridge candidates have less on their CV.
This is not to say that other unis aren’t as good and that people haven’t worked hard to get where they are, just that in the eyes of an employer Oxbridge provides some form of guarantee. Also, lots of partners likely went to Oxbridge, and alumni networks are helpful in this world. But all candidates have to go through the same process, and unis are just a small part of it!
Keep going at it and don’t worry too much about Oxbridge applicants, plenty of people from other unis make it through!

 

[ljms]

People seem to forget that Oxbridge is difficult and very intense — people achieving top marks there are likely to be hard-working, intelligent, or both. As far as work experience is concerned, due to the intensity of the courses there students are heavily discouraged from seeking paid work during term time (it’s a uni policy), so it’s unsurprising that Oxbridge candidates have less on their CV.
This is not to say that other unis aren’t as good and that people haven’t worked hard to get where they are, just that in the eyes of an employer Oxbridge provides some form of guarantee. Also, lots of partners likely went to Oxbridge, and alumni networks are helpful in this world. But all candidates have to go through the same process, and unis are just a small part of it!
Keep going at it and don’t worry too much about Oxbridge applicants, plenty of people from other unis make it through!

It’s easy to achieve top marks when you attend private school and are groomed for academic excellence from a young age. Oxbridge students overwhelmingly come from this background.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Do any other neurodivergents here struggle with some of the tests these firms require?

I am never going to be able to perform well when given a picture of a face and asked what mood that person is in.

Mayer Brown’s communication styles part of the test, where you were given three paragraphs of text and five responses and asked to link the responses to the paragraph that most matches its communication style, was also a struggle—they were all the bloody same.

I can’t help but feel these tests just set me up for failure. I write strong applications but I’m always rejected after these stupid tests.

Edit: Browne Jacobson agrees - https://www.brownejacobson.com/about/news-media/thinking-outside-the-box

You should request a reasonable adjustment. If this is relevant to your circumstances, I would expect that someone with forms of autism would be exempt from “recognise the emotion” type assessments.

It is slightly different with the verbal comprehension assessment, but it’s likely you would get additional time to consider this.

 

[lawyergirl]

People seem to forget that Oxbridge is difficult and very intense — people achieving top marks there are likely to be hard-working, intelligent, or both. As far as work experience is concerned, due to the intensity of the courses there students are heavily discouraged from seeking paid work during term time (it’s a uni policy), so it’s unsurprising that Oxbridge candidates have less on their CV.
This is not to say that other unis aren’t as good and that people haven’t worked hard to get where they are, just that in the eyes of an employer Oxbridge provides some form of guarantee. Also, lots of partners likely went to Oxbridge, and alumni networks are helpful in this world. But all candidates have to go through the same process, and unis are just a small part of it!
Keep going at it and don’t worry too much about Oxbridge applicants, plenty of people from other unis make it through!

I really don't think the argument that people who go to Oxbridge work harder than others because Oxbridge is difficult and intense is a fair one. People are plenty hard working and intelligent wherever they go. It's not justifiable to say (or imply) that Oxbridge people are more intelligent than anyone who doesn't go there.

 

[Jessica Booker]

It’s easy to achieve top marks when you attend private school and are groomed for academic excellence from a young age. Oxbridge students overwhelmingly come from this background.

Not overwhelmingly, but it is a disproportionate amount.

Only about 28-30% of UK Oxbridge students have been privately educated, but this is over four times the national average.

 

[yxngd2x]

While I agree with your point about the moral and cultural imperative for greater diversity, the facts are different from my point of view.

For me personally, diversity is not just about white, black, Asian etc.

Why does a white eton educated Oxbridge graduate have more chances of getting a tc in comparison to a white working class non Oxbridge graduate?

Why does a black eton educated Oxbridge graduate have more chances of getting a tc in comparison to a black working class non Oxbridge graduate?

Yes, I agree about the institutional dominance. But I think saying that BAME, working class, and disabled candidates are at large at ACs it’s a stretch. Maybe that’s your experience, but mine has been different.

I have nothing against Oxbridge, but I despise elitism. A candidate should be evaluated taking every factor into account. From my point of view, a non Oxbridge working class person (whether ethnic minority or not) working part time during university and not being spoon fed cause of rich parents has more potential.

Moreover, how does a 19 years olds candidate from Oxbridge with nothing on his CV show a passion for a career in law? Firms are always crying about “passion for commercial law”, then how someone with no tangible passion for law in the CV showed up at the AC at a particular us law firm?

I feel like it’s already been said here and I agree that class is important to look at but the amount of money you have still doesn’t change the colour of your skin at the end of the day — people can’t tell your background just by looking at you so being eton educated and going to Oxbridge doesn’t stop you from being racially discriminated in the same way a non-Oxbridge eton-educated person would if that makes sense

 

[Jessica Booker]

People seem to forget that Oxbridge is difficult and very intense — people achieving top marks there are likely to be hard-working, intelligent, or both. As far as work experience is concerned, due to the intensity of the courses there students are heavily discouraged from seeking paid work during term time (it’s a uni policy), so it’s unsurprising that Oxbridge candidates have less on their CV.
This is not to say that other unis aren’t as good and that people haven’t worked hard to get where they are, just that in the eyes of an employer Oxbridge provides some form of guarantee. Also, lots of partners likely went to Oxbridge, and alumni networks are helpful in this world. But all candidates have to go through the same process, and unis are just a small part of it!
Keep going at it and don’t worry too much about Oxbridge applicants, plenty of people from other unis make it through!

Oxbridge doesn’t provide any guarantees.

Oxbridge applicants were typically the highest rejected groups in terms of numbers, whilst also being the highest number of trainees I hired at a MC firm.

 

[AnonKn635]

It’s easy to achieve top marks when you attend private school and are groomed for academic excellence from a young age. Oxbridge students overwhelmingly come from this background.

This isnt true unfortunately (I am BAME and went to a state school). Almost all of us struggle in some way at Oxbridge, it is just about how much you show it lol. Achieving top marks at Oxbridge is undoubtedly difficult regardless of your background

 

[nya]

It’s easy to achieve top marks when you attend private school and are groomed for academic excellence from a young age. Oxbridge students overwhelmingly come from this background.

I think there’s a perception that most Oxbridge students are somehow sleepwalking into academic success. I can only speak from my experience as a Cambridge undergrad, but I will say that this perception hardly translates to reality: 8 week terms; no reading week and very small classes means term time at Cambridge can be very intense. I know people who went to high-flying private schools, but still struggle to keep up here, so I don’t think it’s necessarily “easy” regardless of one’s background. It’s definitely worse for state school students like myself, but the bottom line is that a lot of people here work hard, including those from extremely privileged backgrounds (and there are some people here ofc who don’t but even those people have seen their fair share of hard work at A-level/GCSE stage, for example).

I still don’t think that this means Oxbridge grads should have a leg up in the recruitment process tho as getting into Oxbridge in and of itself is a highly competitive process, so people shouldn’t be disadvantaged off the basis of not attending.

 

[law2022x]

Not overwhelmingly, but it is a disproportionate amount.

Only about 28-30% of UK Oxbridge students have been privately educated, but this is over four times the national average.

It was 40% for Oxford in 2018 and 38% in 2019 so many current graduates or trainees were privately educated. And the state school statistics famously do not separate grammar schools and comprehensives. But having gone to Oxford, I know first hand there were not many comprehensive school students.

 

[yxngd2x]

I think there’s a perception that most Oxbridge students are somehow sleepwalking into academic success. I can only speak from my experience as a Cambridge undergrad, but I will say that this perception hardly translates to reality: 8 week terms; no reading week and very small classes means term times at Cambridge can be very intense. I know people who went to high-flying private schools, but still struggle to keep up here, so I don’t think it’s necessarily “easy” regardless of one’s background. It’s definitely worse for state school students like myself, but the bottom line is that a lot of people here work hard, including those from extremely privileged backgrounds (and there are some people here ofc who don’t but even those people have seen their fair share of hard work at A-level/GCSE stage, for example).

I still don’t do think that this means Oxbridge grads should have a leg up in the recruitment process tho as getting into Oxbridge in and of itself is a highly competitive process, so people shouldn’t be disadvantaged off the basis of not attending.

Bro idk if I’m waffling or not because I’m not even at Oxbridge🤣but I would even guess because you tend to be more spoonfed at private schools they might even struggle more than the state school students or is it just a mix?

 

[Jessica Booker]

I really don't think the argument that people who go to Oxbridge work harder than others because Oxbridge is difficult and intense is a fair one. People are plenty hard working and intelligent wherever they go. It's not justifiable to say (or imply) that Oxbridge people are more intelligent than anyone who doesn't go there.

This is the problem with this debate - we start to create binary definitions of things being “easy vs difficult” when actually how we define something as being easy or difficult is never discussed.

For instance, the intellectual level could possibly be higher and some will argue this makes it more difficult. However, Oxbridge students undoubedtly have the best support system in the U.K. education system thanks smaller class sizes, the college system, and typically seminars which can often be effectively near enough 1-2-1 level of education.

They are also learning from the world’s leading academics and often with much better infrastructure like access to books journals, and also alumni.

Does this make it easier for them to study to this level when compared to someone whose university is on the verge of bankruptcy and relies on interim staff teaching seminars and lectures to over 450 students? I suspect so anyway!

 

[Jessica Booker]

It was 40% for Oxford in 2018 and 38% in 2019 so many current graduates or trainees were privately educated. And the state school statistics famously do not separate grammar schools and comprehensives. But having gone to Oxford, I know first hand there were not many comprehensive school students.

The stats I was using was 28% Cambridge in 2023 and just over 30% for Oxford the same year.