TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Andrei Radu]

Just had my final rejection post-AC. I'm genuinely at a loss on what to do now..

Hey @FutureTraineeMaybe I empathize with how disappointed and frustrated you must be feeling, and the first thing I will say is that these are very normal and natural sentiments to have right now. It is a uniquely painful experience that I have also gone through a number of times in my life - to have gotten so close to such an important goal for you only to feel like you failed at the finish line. I remember in my case I felt simultaneously defeated and resentful, angry both at myself and the world for all my efforts having been in vain. And worse than all, I remember this awful recurring idea that I was just not "good enough" when so many around me were, which is one that can so easily eat away at one's sense of self-worth.

So I know this is a very difficult mental space to be in, one that can't simply be solved by one well-worded encouragement post which reiterates that "all will be fine in the end". That said, I will tell you a bit about what I learnt from my own experience. Firstly, your work has not gone to waste. While they may have not ended up with the result you hoped for at the moment you hoped for it, your efforts have helped you develop in many ways you may not be seeing right now. Having gone through this application cycle, you will have learnt so much that you did not know before: how to research a firm in depth, how to write exceptional applications, how to progress through second stages, how an interview and an AC works. The very fact that you have gotten to the AC stage is already clear proof you have managed to become one of the very best candidates out of a huge pool. That is, believe me, no small feat: I know dozens of extremely talented people at UCL that have failed to get even one AC over several cycles. When you apply again, you will start from a so much stronger a position than you did at the beginning of this cycle. Your success chances will be all that higher; most people I know who end up rejected post-AC in one cycle end up getting a VS the following one.

The second thing I will say is that your experience throughout this application cycle, and particularly in dealing with the aftermath of this rejection, will form your character in invaluable ways. If I had not gone through similar experiences, I would be a significantly less resilient, adaptable, and empathetic person than I am now. While these are attributes that may sound too intangible and abstract to do much to console you now, believe me when I say that developing them is an invaluable benefit which will help you in so many areas of your life. I do not regret my experiences of rejection, and if I had a choice, I would not choose to have avoided going through them. All this is to say, your work has not all been for nothing - you will likely be both a stronger candidates and stronger person because of it. Feeling this disappointment is natural, and you should allow yourself the time to do it. However, remember you have all the proof you need that you are "good enough" and that you have all it takes to succeed. And know that if you keep moving forward, there is nothing that can stop you from getting to it!

 

[bluescarf]

Hey there,

I totally get this feeling. There are so many things one could possibly include in a cover letter given the flexibility of it. It’s far from application questions where you are directed towards a certain type of focus point, and expected to stay within that.

There are three key things worth mentioning;

• Why commercial law.
• Why the firm.
• Why you.

The three, “why’s”, essentially.

Why CL - there are so many professions out there, especially in the corporate world, and your ability to succinctly deal with the first why, helps show your reader you have thought this path through. Now, it’s not enough to just state your experiences, you need to precisely show what you did during that period. Further, you will still need to take it to the next level by showcasing why and how that links to commercial law (or an aspect of it, like a practice area), to create a good answer. At this point, you do not need to worry about whether the experiences you choose, or the practice areas you talk about, are a core area of the firm you are applying to. Just showing your journey and how you discovered this path is enough. Law firms want to see your story. How you genuinely communciate this passion is by showing them this. You could say something like you tried X didn’t like it because of Y and Z. You then maybe tried B and picked out that you liked O and G, which commercial law offers, and decided that this was a great path to go down for I and J reasons. Apologies for bombarding you with alphabets, but essentially this is the structure you should aim for (or some variation of it).

Why the firm - as above, seeing as there are so many firms out there, even this is a rather challenging question to answer. Many firms work on similar types of work, similar kinds of deals, have similar core practices, and so on. If the firm operates within a niche area, typically not done by other firms that are reasonably considered its competitors, this could be a distinguishing factor which could draw you more to the firm you are applying to. Focusing clearly on these niche aspects (though I appreciate this may not always be the case/ easy to find), will help your answer appear less generic, and showcase yourself as a candidate that actually knows what they want, AND has done research into knowing where they can get that.

Why you - this is perhaps the easiest and hardest question of all. It’s easy because you know yourself and experiences well, so this should not be hard to communicate. It’s hard because I see a lot of applicants, sway towards downplaying themsleves, whereas this should really be where you sell yourself well. I once watched a webinar on personal branding when applying for jobs, and this is where you really hone into any standout qualities, achievements, backed up with specific examples, that could elevate your application.

Best of luck.. hope this helps!

Thank you so much for the detailed response, and thank you @Ram Sabaratnam for your earlier response too. Both helpful in stopping me from essentially overthinking this! For reference, it's PMC (DTC). Thanks again, I will be applying these pointers for sure

 

[FutureTraineeMaybe]

Hey @FutureTraineeMaybe I empathize with how disappointed and frustrated you must be feeling, and the first thing I will say is that these are very normal and natural sentiments to have right now. It is a uniquely painful experience that I have also gone through a number of times in my life - to have gotten so close to such an important goal for you only to feel like you failed at the finish line. I remember in my case I felt simultaneously defeated and resentful, angry both at myself and the world for all my efforts having been in vain. And worse than all, I remember this awful recurring idea that I was just not "good enough" when so many around me were, which is one that can so easily eat away at one's sense of self-worth.

So I know this is a very difficult mental space to be in, one that can't simply be solved by one well-worded encouragement post which reiterates that "all will be fine in the end". That said, I will tell you a bit about what I learnt from my own experience. Firstly, your work has not gone to waste. While they may have not ended up with the result you hoped for at the moment you hoped for it, your efforts have helped you develop in many ways you may not be seeing right now. Having gone through this application cycle, you will have learnt so much that you did not know before: how to research a firm in depth, how to write exceptional applications, how to progress through second stages, how an interview and an AC works. The very fact that you have gotten to the AC stage is already clear proof you have managed to become one of the very best candidates out of a huge pool. That is, believe me, no small feat: I know dozens of extremely talented people at UCL that have failed to get even one AC over several cycles. When you apply again, you will start from a so much stronger a position than you did at the beginning of this cycle. Your success chances will be all that higher; most people I know who end up rejected post-AC in one cycle end up getting a VS the following one.

The second thing I will say is that your experience throughout this application cycle, and particularly in dealing with the aftermath of this rejection, will form your character in invaluable ways. If I had not gone through similar experiences, I would be a significantly less resilient, adaptable, and empathetic person than I am now. While these are attributes that may sound too intangible and abstract to do much to console you now, believe me when I say that developing them is an invaluable benefit which will help you in so many areas of your life. I do not regret my experiences of rejection, and if I had a choice, I would not choose to have avoided going through them. All this is to say, your work has not all been for nothing - you will likely be both a stronger candidates and stronger person because of it. Feeling this disappointment is natural, and you should allow yourself the time to do it. However, remember you have all the proof you need that you are "good enough" and that you have all it takes to succeed. And know that if you keep moving forward, there is nothing that can stop you from getting to it!

Thank you so much @Andrei Radu 🥺

 

[Andrei Radu]

Can any1 suggest good questions to ask at an AC in the interview, ive got some in mind relating to the firm itself but are there any good ones which are bit more general or specific to the interviewers I can ask?

Besides the commercial topic questions recommended by another forum member (which I also think tend to work very well, especially when there is a clear link with the partners' practice area) I would also consider asking questions based on the interviewer's personal experiences, such as:

• What has kept you at the firm (if they have started there); or why have you moved here and how does your experience here compare to that at your previous firm (if they lateraled)?
• Why have you chosen this practice area to qualify in, and what do you think is most interesting about the work it involves?
• What is the most interesting deal/case/matter that you have worked on?
• What moment/piece of work stood out to you the most during your time at the firm?
• What qualities differentiate successful from unsuccessful trainees in your view; and in your experience, what qualities are most important for professional success over the long term?
• What is your strategy for business development; and how does the firm encourage/support associates in this regard?

Although you have mentioned you already have some firm-specific questions in mind, I just thought to list a few which I have seen candidates often miss but which seemed to me to be well-received in interviews:

• What is your firm's business strategy over the next few years, and how does the London office fit into it?
• Which firms do you most often find yourself pitching against?
• What are the firm's selling points from a client's perspective?
• What risks and market trends is the firm most worried about?

 

[lou1707]

Universities generally don't care at all about this issue.
Unfortunately it's difficult to work around this; a friend did 20 hours a week until the end of term (weeks after the course actually ended), but in the context of a vacation scheme it's likely that asking to work only 20 hours would be excessively disruptive. You also can't legally get around it by working for free.

this is acc infuriating, I'm going to university to get a job and it's that university that prevents me to get a job

 

[User5678]

Update: they’re rescinding the offer because I’m on a student visa and can’t do more than 20 hours. I’m actually heartbroken. Please if @Jessica Booker or anyone has an idea of what I could do it would be greatly appreciated (I already emailed my uni to know if there’s anyway they could accommodate my term times around the vac scheme)

Hi, I am so sorry to hear this! Is this the spring scheme or summer scheme? If you’ll have university spring break or summer holidays even if it’s not the end of the year I think you will be allowed to complete your VS as it will fall out of term time (I am sure of this as I have worked for more than 20 hours in my spring and summer hols and have always been legally allowed by the companies)! I am also an international and get how frustrating this is especially in this job market and with difficult sponsorship criterias

 

[trainee4u]

this is acc infuriating, I'm going to university to get a job and it's that university that prevents me to get a job

it's very poor. Similar issue with graduate visa - once you are on it you can do whatever you like, but to get on to it you have to wait for the university to certify your results, and there's no flexibility with the process or attempt to distinguish between students at reputable unis who are highly employable in skilled jobs but face visa issues, and people at degree mills who might be doing some random course with the primary intention of being able to work in unskilled labour in the UK

 

[Andrei Radu]

Thank you so much for your answer. I've also read that successful TC offer holders often go out of their way to knock on people's doors/ go up to people to speak to them (not during lunch but during working hours) to make themselves known. Is this actually typical and recommended? Or should I just get on with work and focus on socialising during lunch/break or events?

In my experience it can also be the case that some hyper-social vacation schemers end up not converting for this very reason. Firstly, like Jessica pointed out, doing this will likely mean you have less time to invest in your work; and for many firms both the quality and quantity of your work product is a key assessment criterion. Secondly, being extremely socially proactive during work hours might not be as best received as you would think by the people you are interacting with. While they might not say no to meeting with you out of politeness, many of them also have very busy schedules and are constantly stressed by deadlines. As such, prologued meetings with no obvious purposes outside break times might actually annoy them. This is why I would advise you to first speak to your supervisor/trainee buddy before you decide who you want to invite for a coffee chat. They might be able to tell you a lot more about which people or which teams are more and less busy at the moment; and which specific team members enjoy chatting and socializing more.
They might also be able to tell you whether it is better to approach certain people in person or via email/internal messaging systems. At any rate, in my experience socializing beyond the point of your team members generally knowing who you are and seeing you as a nice person does not impact your conversion chances that much.

That said, I will caveat this by saying that it may not apply at specific firms. Different firms have different recruitment strategies and assess vacation schemers on different criteria. Many will care a lot about the work you do, but I know some that place only minimal importance on that. My best advice is to try to speak to graduate recruitment and current/future trainees and get their view on the following questions: what are the most important things the firm is looking for? How would you advise a vacation schemer to invest their time? How should I approach people to get to know them? You should then modify your strategy accordingly.

 

[trainee4u]

Hi, I am so sorry to hear this! Is this the spring scheme or summer scheme? If you’ll have university spring break or summer holidays even if it’s not the end of the year I think you will be allowed to complete your VS as it will fall out of term time (I am sure of this as I have worked for more than 20 hours in my spring and summer hols and have always been legally allowed by the companies)! I am also an international and get how frustrating this is especially in this job market and with difficult sponsorship criterias

it depends on the type of course. For a (one year) masters, there won't be a summer holiday: it's classed as term time when you are (theoretically) doing your dissertation.

 

[lawlol420]

Has anyone who did the Dechert Written test post 12th Feb heard back?

hey, was this for the spring or summer vs?

 

[lawlol420]

Has anyone heard back from Davis Polk post interview? (mine was last week)

hey, was this for spring or summer vs?

 

[Amma Usman]

hi hi has anyone heard from Forsters yet. I've been so nervous all day and I genuinely cant get my mind off it

I’m so sorry to hear you’ve been feeling this way. I know how tough it can be when something is weighing on your mind. Maybe try going for a walk…no headphones, no distractions…just to clear your head a bit. Prioritizing self-care is so important, especially during times like this. Be kind to yourself, you’ve done your best!

 

[Amma Usman]

Addleshaw Goddard VS offer!!

Huge congratulations on your Addleshaw Goddard VS offer! This is such an incredible achievement and a true reflection of all the hard work, dedication, and effort you've put in. You should be so proud of yourself for making it through. Take the time to celebrate properly…you’ve absolutely earned it! Wishing you the best as you embark on this exciting opportunity 🎉

 

[Amma Usman]

Thought Of The Day

The moment you stop trying is the moment you close off possibility. Progress often happens quietly, beneath the surface, like roots growing before they reach the light. You might not see change right away, but that doesn’t mean it’s not happening. True strength isn’t found in ease, but in the courage to keep going, even when the finish line feels distant. Every setback is a stepping stone, and every doubt is a chance to grow. Keep moving forward… because each step brings you closer to becoming the person you’re meant to be.

 

[emma.d]

Anyone heard anything from Willkie?

 

[Chris Brown]

I know it’s only been like 5 days since the deadline, but has anyone heard from Stephenson Harwood yet for their Spring and/or Summer VS?

Does anyone know from a previous cycle when they usually get back to people post application with test invites?​

 

[Amma Usman]

Can any1 suggest good questions to ask at an AC in the interview, ive got some in mind relating to the firm itself but are there any good ones which are bit more general or specific to the interviewers I can ask?

Hi there,

I don‘t have much to add to @Andrei Radu ’s great response on this. One thing I personally enjoyed doing was building up through a question at the end, a topic my interviewer and I had discussed. This enabled me to get insights from them and I thoroughly enjoyed doing this as it enabled me to go outside the scope of what I already knew. The way I saw it, even if I didn’t get the offer, I would have walked away from that experience with more knowledge than I had coming in - and that was really important to me. Another thing is you could ask them how a topic discussed, one heavily on the news, (or just anything you’re curious about, really), could impact their work. Again, it helps you learn more about the work and showcases some element of being able to welcome fresh perspectives, which is a key skill for a trainee!

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi, I just wanted some advice with regards to reapplying to a firm.

I interviewed at a firm last year and was unsuccessful. I want to reapply, and was wondering what I should do differently at application stage since I was successful previously and the questions more or less remain the same :/

I did ask what the reapplication policy is like and recruitment said its fine.
Thanks

I think you are fine to keep most of the general themes and substantive motivations the same: firstly, because they were judged good enough to have your application progressed in the past; secondly, because the firm will have no expectations for your fundamental motivations and candidate profile to have drastically changed in the space of one year. However, you also do not want to seem like you are unmotivated to work on improving yourself and your application. As such, I would aim to include any new experiences or achievements that you can. Similarly, I would try to add new insights you have learnt about the firm: for instance, has it worked on any new major deals/cases, or received important market recognition? Adding these points could strengthen your analysis and make your motivations look more persuasive. Finally, review your writing critically to see if there are any potential improvements regarding style: can you express yourself in a a more concise way? can any points be better phrased? should any sentences be shortened? etc.

 

[VVV]

Should I assume PFO if I have not heard from White & Case post AC more than 2 weeks ago? Has anyone emailed to ask?

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hello, does anyone have any advice for the assessment centre group interview task on how to prepare? I am terrified of someone asking me to talk more

Hi @Kakaboo as some other forum members have said, I think more often the problem with group exercises is that you will not be able to contribute as much as you would like, as everyone will be constantly fighting over airtime. The only context in which you would be asked to say more is if you are particularly quiet and one of the other attendees wants to show team spirit - one of the pieces of advice regarding group exercises I have very often come across is to show collaboration/leadership skills by seeking to include the person who is speaking up the least. I never personally implemented this as it seemed to me to come with a significant risk of both putting the person on the spot and in signaling them out as 'inactive', which can do more harm than good.

That said, I have seen other people do this is a very direct manner, stopping the exercise just to say to someone "Is there something you would want to say here?". I imagine this can be a quite anxiety-inducing experience and I think you are right in aiming to avoid that. To do that, the best strategy is simply to seek to be among the more active people in the room (which independently of this I would also argue is the right strategy to maximize your chances of scoring well). To achieve this despite the fight over airtime (and just for generally elevating your performance), consider doing the following:

• Offer to keep the time: this shows a proactive attitude while not being very demanding as to your mental focus. It also enables you to (i) avoid taking the responsibility of any required writing, which is more demanding; and (ii) naturally intervene at certain points in the discussion to mention time considerations, which is also an opportunity for you to add substantive points.
• Try to introduce structure and organization: although many candidates will want to immediately start the analysis, instead of simply throwing yourself into discussing substantive points, try to introduce a framework: what points will you discuss, in what order, how much time will you spend on each, and what relevant assessment criteria should you keep in mind when analyzing the points? This will ensure a more comprehensive overview and a more clear output.
• Focus on finding more niche/less-obvious analysis points: as you are given a brief for the group exercise task, you will normally have a bit of preparation time during which you can think what points to bring up. You will find some points that are really intuitive which you will know the others likely also thought of. Instead of focusing on those and fighting with everyone to get to express those obvious points, I would use that time (and the extra thinking time in the initial discussion phase when everyone is fighting to say the obvious points) to find relevant ideas that others may have missed. The, as the discussion is winding down on that subpart of the task, I would mention these more niche points. This will avoid making you seem competitive and also showcase ability for more nuanced analysis.
• Focus on synthesis and weighing: another similar strategy for impressive contribution which may not require too much fighting over airtime is to once again seek to contribute as the discussion on the substantive points is winding down. What you can do here is intervene to summarize what everyone has contributed, weigh their points, and then make an informed argument as to what the decision should be.