TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[Amma Usman]

Hiya @BobThebIlly

First off, well done on those impressive scores for assumptions (88%) and evaluating arguments (100%). Those are fantastic and show you’ve really nailed those sections! Let’s focus on the “drawing conclusions” part and see how you can improve in the short time you have.

The Watson Glaser tests your ability to draw conclusions in two specific sections - the deduction section, as well as the inference section.

Deductions: This section tests your ability to make a deduction. With deductions, you are trying to find what follows absolutely and necessarily from the premises you are given, and just assume that all those premises are true. For example:

• Premise 1: All cats have whiskers
• Premise 2: Ram is a cat (this premise is false, but for the purpose of your deduction just assume it's true)
• Conclusion: Ram has whiskers

Notice that, in the above argument, if you assume the initial premises are true, then the conclusion follows necessarily and absolutely. This reflects the way you should be 'drawing conclusions' in the deduction section.

The inference section, by contrast, tests your ability to draw conclusions in more probabilistic ways. They are not asking you to identify what follows absolutely or necessarily. Rather, they involve asking what conclusions are probable or strongly suggested by the evidence though not certain (i.e. follow strongly). For the purposes of the inference section, there are two styles of reasoning that you should become familiar with:

1. Inductions: Imagine you’re a scientist studying bird migration. Over the course of several years, you observe that geese in a particular region always migrate south during the winter. Based on these repeated observations, you draw the conclusion "Geese in this region migrate south every winter." This is a good conclusion to drawbecause it's based on consistent and repeated evidence. However, it’s not certain (there could be a year when some geese don’t migrate for an unexpected reason, like illness or environmental changes). Induction involves drawing conclusions to make predictions about the future or generalisations about a group based on observed patterns. To understand whether an inference is a strong one, you'll also want to familiarise yourself with the ways people get inductions wrong. These include, but are not limited to:
   • Overgeneralising: This occurs when someone draws a broad conclusion based on too few examples. For instance, seeing two aggressive dogs and concluding that all dogs are aggressive is an overgeneralisation. The sample size is too small to justify the conclusion.
     
     
   • Sampling Bias: Drawing conclusions from an unrepresentative sample can lead to faulty reasoning. For example, surveying only a small group of people from one region and assuming their preferences reflect an entire population’s preferences is misleading.
     
     
   • Ignoring Counterexamples: Inductive reasoning requires considering exceptions, but people sometimes disregard counterexamples that weaken their conclusions. For instance, concluding that "all swans are white" without accounting for black swans ignores evidence that challenges the generalisation. Pay attention to whether the question stem and information you're being offered provides any potential counter evidence.
     
     
   • Confusing causation and correlation: People often assume that because two things happen together, one causes the other. For example, observing that ice cream sales increase in summer alongside shark attacks might lead someone to wrongly conclude that eating ice cream causes shark attacks. In reality, both are linked to a third factor: hot weather.
2. Abductions: This involves selecting the most likely explanation based on the available evidence. For example, if you find fur on your couch and a chewed slipper, you might reasonably conclude that your dog is responsible. While other explanations are logically possible (e.g. such as a neighbour's cat sneaking into your house unnoticed to chew the slipper and shed fur on the couch) - these are far less plausible, especially if you have a dog at home. Abductive reasoning is particularly useful in situations where the evidence is incomplete or ambiguous. It allows us to make practical, reasonable conclusions by focusing on the explanation that best fits the facts. This approach is commonly used in problem-solving, diagnosing issues, and decision-making, as it prioritises what is most likely rather than what is merely possible.

Appreciating these different ways of 'drawing a conclusion' is important because you want to ensure that you're using the appropriate form of reasoning depending on the section you're working on. Mistaking one for another can lead to choosing the wrong answers in that section.

Hope this helps and my apologies in advance for the length of my reply!

The premises really made my day @Ram Sabaratnam hahaha!

 

[Amma Usman]

The Importance of Resilience During The Application Cycle

The law firm application process can feel challenging. It can feel like an uphill battle, full of moments where you question everything. Those feelings are absolutely normal.

You’re going to hear “no” in this process, maybe more than once, maybe more times than you think you can handle. But every single “no” is just redirection, not rejection. It’s not the end of your story; it’s just part of the journey.

Every single step you take, even when it feels small, is progress. Every application, every interview, every feedback session… these are the building blocks of your future. And the beauty of resilience is that it doesn’t just get you through tough times… it transforms you. You become sharper, more determined, and more unstoppable with every challenge you overcome.

So don’t stop now. Keep pushing, keep believing, and keep showing up for yourself. Your opportunity is out there, waiting for you to claim it. And when it comes, all the hard work, the rejections, the frustration…it will all make sense. You’ll look back and realise it wasn’t about the setbacks; it was about the strength you found to rise again and again.

 

[FoxStella]

Has anyone heard from Ashurst after the written AC?

 

[tcla02]

Clyde & Co PFO

summer?:/

 

[mariistm]

PFO from Kennedys and Burges Salmon

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

PFO from Kennedys and Burges Salmon

Ditto - RE: Burges Salmon

 

[elsx]

That’s strange! Did you not receive any comms after? Just wondering if it’s a blip or someone is going through VIs again

I have not heard back so maybe they are still looking at our apps. That email scared me though! I thought it was a pro at first 😅

 

[mfuturetrainee]

has anybody done an ac for rpc? or has anybody heard back

 

[g.cl.2020344]

has anybody done an ac for rpc? or has anybody heard back

I haven't heard back-post initial app hbu?

 

[member7830]

what are some good questions to ask at the end of an interview?

 

[fitzer401]

what are some good questions to ask at the end of an interview?

Hi,

I think one of the best and most widely applicable question to all firms is: Are there any skills which you feel are essential for a solicitor to have today that weren't essential when you began your training?

 

[futuretrainee!]

Anyone still waiting for Addleshaw Goddard post-application/test for London? I completed them on the 23rd of December.

I applied in August LOL but had my application transferred for the VS. I emailed them yesterday and they confirmed that applications are still being considered as ACs run Jan through March. Fingers crossed for you!

 

[avocadob]

I applied in August LOL but had my application transferred for the VS. I emailed them yesterday and they confirmed that applications are still being considered as ACs run Jan through March. Fingers crossed for you!

That's interesting because a recent post here a few hours ago said the last one is 24 Feb!

 

[DesperateForVac]

Has anyone been shortlisted or know anyone who was shortlisted by HSF? If so what was the outcome

 

[YS391]

I applied in August LOL but had my application transferred for the VS. I emailed them yesterday and they confirmed that applications are still being considered as ACs run Jan through March. Fingers crossed for you!

Thanks so much!

 

[Gr33n]

has anybody done an ac for rpc? or has anybody heard back

I’m still waiting post WG which I completed 2 weeks ago. How long did it take u to receive the AC?

 

[Andrei Radu]

what are some good questions to ask at the end of an interview?

Hi @member7830 I have discussed this topic in more depth in a recent post, I will quote it bellow. But just to list a few questions that I think in general are ok to ask:

• What is your firm's business strategy over the next few years?
• What is the strategy for the London office?
• Which firms do you most often find yourself pitching against?
• What are the firm's selling points from a client's perspective?
• What qualities are most important for making a trainee succeed at the job in your experience?

I would say what is best to ask depends on (i) what your interests are; (ii) who is interviewing you; and (iii) what has previously been discussed in the interview:

1. Firstly, you want to ask something that you actually care about. Whoever is interviewing you likely has significant experience with the process and will therefore be able to see whether you are being genuine or just asking a question for the sake of it. Thus, when you think of a potential question, first ask yourself why do you think the answer might matter to you. In fact, I think it would be good if in the interview you mention the reason why you care about the question before you actually ask it - this will directly show the interview that you have put thought into it. An example of questions that you may choose to ask could be questions relating to your 'Why the firm' motivations. For instance, if a a strong reputation in one practice area, you may ask: how has the firm managed to build such a strong practice? what are plans for the future of the practice? are there any relevant challenges and opportunities in that practice's market, and how is the firm planning to respond to that? how can the firm's practice be differentiated from competitors with similar reputations? etc.
2. Secondly, you want to tailor your question to the audience as much as possible. Some questions may be more appropriate for an associate, some for a junior partner, and some for a senior partner. For instance, questions relating to junior culture and training experience are great for associates, questions around progression and the different tasks and responsibilities at different seniority levels in the firm would be great for a junior partner, while questions about the firm's strategy, client base, and market reputation when compared to competitors would be great for the more senior partners. Moreover, you may not want to ask a disputes partner about the firm's strategy to increase market share in PE, and you may want to avoid asking a transactional partner about details of the firm's newest competition litigation mandate. If possible, tailoring your questions around your interviewer's expertise is optimal.
3. Thirdly, you want for your questions to feel natural - you don't want to seem like you came in with a pre-prepared list which you were going to ask regardless of how the interview went. Of course, it is good to show that you have done your research and came prepared. However, you also want to make this section of the interview feel as conversational as possible, as for once you are playing the role of the person doing the asking. The more you can link your questions with what has been touched upon in the interview, the better. Some questions could just be follow-ups to the interviewer's answers to your pre-prepared questions. Some could be just about asking the interviewer to elaborate on some points they touched upon beforehand. However, take care to not be repetitive. Thus, only ask a question if you think it is likely there is a lot more that the interviewer could have to add to the previous discussion.

 

[billyonthespeeddial]

Thanks to Hogan Lovells being so quick back in November, I now get anxious if I hear nothing only a few hours after the AC lol

 

[YS391]

That's interesting because a recent post here a few hours ago said the last one is 24 Feb!

It’s possible that the person who mentioned they only saw bookings up until February 24 is because AG wasn't making the ACs available for dates further out.

 

[James Wakefield]

It’s possible that the person who mentioned they only saw bookings up until February 24 is because AG wasn't making the ACs available for dates further out.

They have a large intake and have the same application form for Spring/Summer so I would be surprised if there’s just 3 AC dates for London, even if there are multiple time slots on each.