finally have been sent the Mayer Brown tests.
Is anyone else still waiting for HL test for summer?
Is anyone else still waiting for HL test for summer?
TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25
- Thread starter Jessica Booker
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- vacation scheme
I am far from a Watson Glaser professional but I shall share my two pence (partly as practice!)
WARNING - this lengthy response might be entirely wrong; if so, I apologise in advance and would appreciate any corrections.
Statements -
When approaching the statements, I like to start by (1.) doing a venn diagram and/or (2.) taking the contrapositive.
With this statement, you learn two things: (1.) there's a class (aka group) of people called 'members of a diplomatic service'. (2.) all intelligent pupils are part of that class. This is a good statement to do a venn diagram for - big circle is the class - 'members of a diplomatic service'; within this circle, draw a circle to represent members - 'all intelligent pupils'.
With this, I like taking the contrapositive - this is a fancy way of flipping the statement back-to-front, then negating whatever was positive and vice-versa. It's a good thing to do - I definitely encourage having a look into it if you haven't. The contrapositive would be - "All intelligent pupils are not normal pupils". This is your learning number three.
Putting these three 'learnings' together, you can now attack the conclusions pretty quickly because you've got a better understanding.
Proposed Conclusion 1 - No member of a diplomatic service is a normal pupil.
Here, I like to look at learning 1+2 (or just statement 1) - the only thing you know is that intelligent people ARE part of the class of 'members of a diplomatic service'. Now, we do know that per learning 3, intelligent students are not normal. BUT - there is nothing stating that intelligent people are the ONLY people who are part of the diplomatic service; we know nothing about who else might be part of that class. In other words, the class is not specified as being exclusive to intelligent pupils - there may well be be normal people + intelligent pupils. Therefore, the proposed conclusion DOES NOT follow.
Proposed Conclusion 2 - Every intelligent pupil takes an active role in the service.
Immediately, one word should jump out - 'active'. Even if the sentence is true regardless of that adjective, the word is not used in the statements therefore we know nothing about it. Therefore, DOES NOT follow.
Proposed Conclusion 3 - The normal pupil cannot be an active member of a diplomatic service.
See my response to Proposed Conclusion 2
Proposed Conclusion 4 - Some members of a diplomatic service are abnormal pupils.
Look at Statement 1 again. We know that all intelligent pupils are members of a diplomatic service. We also know, from taking the contrapositive of Statement 2, that all intelligent pupils are not normal. Therefore, since all intelligent pupils are abnormal + all intelligent pupils are members of the diplomatic service, we can say that conclusion FOLLOWS.
Fun thing to remember about the Watson Glaser - words like 'some' do not have their everyday meaning. When we normally say 'some', we just mean a portion of a whole. In the Watson Glaser, 'some' can mean everything from 1 to everything. So, even if the only people who comprised the diplomatic service were intelligent pupils, proposed conclusion 4 would still follow, given that 'some' can mean 'all'.
Just did my CMS VI and was calm during preparation but my heart started beating at 200bpm once the video interview started and I WAS NERVOUS AND STUTTERING 😭😭 Im so disappointed but onto the next ig.. hope they don't long out my PFO
Anyone have any tips on the nerves? I feel super confident before but during I lose my composure instantly
Anyone have any tips on the nerves? I feel super confident before but during I lose my composure instantly
- Sep 7, 2024
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Hi @axele
Yes, there’s definitely still time to apply. While Bird & Bird does review applications on a rolling basis, their vacation scheme deadline isn’t until 19th December. Many firms tend to receive the bulk of their applications closer to the deadline, so don't fret yet!
I'd recommend taking some time to think carefully about how you want to approach your application, and if possible, ask a couple of people to review it for you before submitting. Put your best foot forward and you'll be great!
Sorry to hear this. So bizarre I haven't heard back I even followed up earlier this week for an update.
- Sep 7, 2024
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Heya @j3llyfish
I’m sorry to hear about your experience with the video interview, but don’t be too hard on yourself. I'd keep in mind that recruiters aren’t just focussed on your delivery; they’re also paying close attention to the content and structure of your answers. A friend of mine had a similar experience. They struggled with nerves and a stutter during video interviews but still managed to progress to the next stages with several firms. So it's still very possible to get through!
One thing that really helps with these interviews is practising your responses to common types of questions, like motivational, competency, and commercial awareness questions, until your answers feel almost instinctive. The more familiar you are with the content, the less you’ll need to focus on recalling your points in the moment, which can help calm your nerves. I’d also recommend avoiding using a detailed script, as I think this almost always makes applicants feel greater pressure to remember every word of their script. Instead, try jotting down key prompts or phrases to help you stay on track without losing the natural flow of your answer. Good luck with your next video interview. You’ve got every reason to feel super confident throughout and not just at the beginning of video interviews!
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honestly was so shocked as it felt like one of my best interviews, i did it on the 29th
Thanks for the positivity (altho I like to assume the worst to lessen the blow lol) and tips! I stay away from scripts anyway so I think my issue is just anxiety, you're completely right that preparation helps w/ that. Going to keep this in mind for the next VI I do.Heya @j3llyfish
I’m sorry to hear about your experience with the video interview, but don’t be too hard on yourself. I'd keep in mind that recruiters aren’t just focusing on your delivery; they’re also paying close attention to the content and structure of your answers. A friend of mine had a similar experience. They struggled with nerves and a stutter during video interviews but still managed to progress to the next stages with several firms. So it's still very possible to get through!
One thing that really helps with these interviews is practising your responses to common types of questions, like motivational, competency, and commercial awareness questions, until your answers feel almost instinctive. The more familiar you are with the content, the less you’ll need to focus on recalling your points in the moment, which can help calm your nerves. I’d also recommend avoiding using a detailed script, as I think this almost always makes applicants feel greater pressure to remember every word of their script. Instead, try jotting down key prompts or phrases to help you stay on track without losing the natural flow of your answer. Good luck with your next video interview. You’ve got every reason to feel super confident throughout and not just at the beginning of video interviews!
It's frustrating to have 1 min to answer a question that is usually 500 words in an application form 😞😔A follow up question - Do you recommend having 3 points for 'why law' for example that are brief or 2 more in-depth ones? I find I really struggle to fit 3 points into an answer without sounding super generic or is a bit more genericness expected for the length of a VI?
anyone know how to withdraw an application on the system firms like Clyde & Co or Mishcon De Reya use?
- Sep 7, 2024
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Completely get how frustrating it can be to condense a strong answer into just 90 seconds! It can be really tough to know, too, whether you've struck the right balance between depth and conciseness. That said, in these cases, I think it's really important to ask yourself whether you can comfortably fit in three points without them feeling rushed or superficial (some people can do this effortlessly - not me though (ha)). It’s absolutely fine to stick with two more in-depth points if that feels more natural, and you can spend about 45 seconds on each, which allows you to provide more substance without feeling pressed for time.
I’d also suggest asking someone to review your answer or record yourself to see how it comes across. The aim is to be concise but still nuanced (on that note, I'd recommend avoiding the typical 'I'm interested in commercial law because I'm interested in business and law'). The other thing I'd say here is that if you end up going with 2 points instead of 3, I'd suggest that you avoid overloading your answer with too much detail. This can effectively dilute your key message and make it harder for the viewer to follow your answer. As long as you’re thoughtful and clear, the interviewer should be able to connect with your reasoning. Good luck!
- Sep 7, 2024
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Heya @billyonthespeeddial 👀
I completely agree with @Jessica Booker on this. When I was in a similar position, I did include a vacation scheme offer in my work experience section, but in hindsight, I found that my applications often worked better when I mentioned it more briefly elsewhere, such as in my answers to specific questions (often 'why commercial law'). I used it as an opportunity to show that I was looking forward to deepening my understanding of legal work in areas I had expressed an interest in. Overall, it's great to include these upcoming experiences to demonstrate your commitment. Good luck with the applications!
Thanks sm! You're a legend, wish I asked before my VI🫥 u live and learn
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