TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[lawstudent1111]

I s

I secured 0 and I think its on the rare side to secure on your first cycle. When I compare my applications/understanding of what commercial law is, what the city is and general commercial awareness, it all makes sense to me why I didn't secure any. With time, you gain exposure and general knowledge which will automatically make your applications stronger!

I agree I had a similar experience! and my second cycle is very successful compared to my first

Out of curiosity - did you do anything specifically to make your applications better from one cycle to the next? eg. apply earlier, focus more on commercial awareness etc.? What would you suggest doing?

 

[Adrian_S]

When it comes to getting VS's I think it's very important to remember getting 1 is the biggest challenge out there. The applicants who can secure one in the first place often have the necessary skills to secure another (i.e. strong commercial awareness, the ability to write good applications, strong grades etc). In my opinion, there isn't a huge amount of difference between someone who secured one vac scheme and someone who secured 4, simply because you already can demonstrate the necessary skills to secure multiple vac schemes once you've secured the first one. This is why, in my opinion, I see many people either securing 0 vac schemes (i.e. luck wasn't on their side or they simply may not have been good enough this cycle), 1 vac scheme (and no more because why to bother or it'll overlap with others), or some high number like 4 (because they were skilled enough to get one, and now can just get multiple since they have the skills).

My point is there's no point comparing yourself to someone who received 4 VS offers (and thinking that the person who secured 1 or 0 isn't as great) – there are many factors that can come into play (i.e. he/she made fewer applications, or the VS they secured overlaps with many other VS dates). I recommend focusing on just getting one and keeping your head up!

this is such excellent advice! thank you, friend!

 

[SCN]

Hiya, does anyone have tips for Slaughters TC interview?? I remember reading @George Maxwell also interviewed at the firm, if you have any advice that'd be really appreciated!

 

[Jessica Booker]

4-5 vs offers is common?! I don’t think this is accurate

I think it depends on what you class as common.

There will be enough people who secure 4-5 VS offers a year to say it isn't rare but how common it is will depend on the people you are looking at. For instance, I suspect it is different if you are considering regional firms over opportunities in London. For people aiming for firms with more of a niche, it will be less than those who are just applying to any international law firm.

 

[Deleted member 11671]

Just curious, how many VS do people normally secure in their first application cycle?

There are a lot of variables to be honest - grades, application match to firm, interview performance etc. I had 2 in my first cycle (this year) but I have been accumulating legal experience from the past 1 year.

 

[AvniD]

Honestly, what made the biggest difference for me was - mindset. After failing to convert my first vac scheme into a training contract and then failing to get any vac schemes for two years, I was devastated. I spent two years going through hundreds of applications made by other students trying to identify a formula for how to write successful applications without any avail. In all honesty, I equated my value and self-esteem with a training contract and vac scheme, thus allowing every rejection to bring me down just a little bit more. This was definitely the most toxic thing I have ever done to myself because instead of emphasising my own characteristics and skills and interests in applications, I was now in a mindset where I was constantly comparing myself to other applicants and feeling pretty low about myself. Mind you, this problem was a lot harder to deal with because I am also an international student and in my Asian country there is an incredible amount of pressure to be successful, especially if you study abroad, and failing to convert a degree into a job abroad is usually quite shameful in the society I come from. All of this translated into the quality of applications I was sending out, because they were now looking increasingly replicated and generic and did not nearly cover my interests + skills adequately.

So last year, after I graduated, I genuinely asked myself - is this career still something I want and something I am equipped for, or is it peer-pressure from being in law school and only being considered successful if you have an 'incoming trainee solicitor' tag on linkedin? I have always been deeply interested in law and enjoyed all my exposure to law firms, so I knew this was definitely the career I wanted and then this became the starting point for me to recalibrate my mindset.

Over the last year then, I only made applications to firms that genuinely interested me, even if they were slightly smaller, and avoided making applications just for their prestige or reputation. I focussed on myself and my interests, attending virtual law fairs and speaking to solicitors about the work they did to understand what practice area focus should I maintain. A tip here (and this might be slightly controversial) is that I did not let any peers proof-read my applications - I did this because for me personally, this exercise was a gateway to doubting myself and letting other people dictate what I should convey about myself rather than choosing myself. I also focussed on shedding away some of my writing flourish and chose instead to write in a direct and mature manner - always answering the question and linking the skill/experience back to the firm without giving excessive details. Finally, and this was something I was only able to do after graduating, was making early applications. Most assessment centres I secured this year involved me sending out the application a day or two after the firm's window opened, so I will really really recommend if you can to send out the application super early!

In the end, if I had to summarise and talk about the single most effective tip to getting a tc - it is resilience. As long as you keep dusting yourself off, recalibrating, re-applying and reconsidering your career goals, you will get that TC. Regardless of the external pressure associated with this career, only you determine your self-worth and I promise that if you just keep making those applications - something incredible will come out of it

@s10 this is one of the best posts I've seen on the forum recently. Your self-awareness and willingness to reflect on what was working and wasn't is commendable and will hold you in good stead in any endeavour you choose to embark upon in the future. So so inspiring 👏 👏 👏

 

[AvniD]

Hi! If asked at interview "why law and why not consulting?" What would you recommend saying?

@Crystal86 what are your initial thoughts on this? (there are no wrong answers, try to think about what draws you to law and hone in on it)

 

[Jessica Booker]

@s10 this is one of the best posts I've seen on the forum recently. Your self-awareness and willingness to reflect on what was working and wasn't is commendable and will hold you in good stead in any endeavour you choose to embark upon in the future. So so inspiring 👏 👏 👏

Just want to reiterate this message. Contributions to threads like this really make TCLA the community it is. Thank you @s10 for taking the time to post this and for being so candid too.

 

[AvniD]

Hey guys have a partner interview with pwc next week and not too sure what to expect! If anyone has any tips they’d be happy to share please pm me would love to chat

@toriandersen congratulations on securing your interview! Linking some of our forum posts below to help you. Let me know if you find them useful!

• Jacob Miller's Definitive Guide
• Dheepa's tips
• James' tips on building rapport
• Avni's break down of ACs

 

[jellybelly123]

@Jessica Booker

I'm in a situation where I need to cancel a training contract interview which is in two days time. I have emailed and called graduate recruitment, as well as the firm's main phone line but no one has got back to me. I'm slightly worried that they may not receive the info before the interview on Wednesday. Is there anything you recommend that I should do? Thanks!

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker

I'm in a situation where I need to cancel a training contract interview which is in two days time. I have emailed and called graduate recruitment, as well as the firm's main phone line but no one has got back to me. I'm slightly worried that they may not receive the info before the interview on Wednesday. Is there anything you recommend that I should do? Thanks!

Nothing much more you can do unfortunately - if you have emailed and called, I am sure someone will pick up the message. If you haven't heard anything back by Tuesday afternoon, you could try to call again to see if you can speak to someone.

 

[elizabethjo123]

Do all PFOs from Simmons look like this? Can’t tell if they genuinely filled up places or are just being polite 🤣

 

[S87]

Do all PFOs from Simmons look like this? Can’t tell if they genuinely filled up places or are just being polite 🤣

Yep they encouraged me to reapply too and who knows!

 

[ssolicitorz]

Out of curiosity - did you do anything specifically to make your applications better from one cycle to the next? eg. apply earlier, focus more on commercial awareness etc.? What would you suggest doing?

This is an interesting question.

To be honest, last year I pretty much applied to every firm on the deadline. This time I applied to a few way before the deadline but was unsuccessful with all of those. I've actually been more successful with the ones that I submitted on the deadline. So while submitting it earlier is way better in theory, in my situation that wasn't the reason why I've been more successful.

Many people will disagree with me, but in my experience with how ambiguous the application process is, submitting only a few applications significantly lowers your chances (especially if you don't have a very strong 2:1 or a 1:1 undergrad). I believe it is a numbers game unless you're one of the rare people who have cracked the code for what an exemplar application looks like.

My applications have overall gotten stronger, but are they much stronger now? no.

I believe my growth has come not at the initial application stage but at the stages later on. So while I still find it hard to make it past the initial stage, I find it much easier post that initial stage. With experience, I have become much more comfortable with video interviews and in group exercises/interviews I believe I demonstrate a somewhat strong commercial understanding.

SO my point of advice is: submit as many applications as you can that you believe are strong. And whilst doing so, make sure you are constantly building up your commercial knowledge and business accumen. If you can get past one initial application stage, the most ambiguous and mysterious stage, then you can work hard to get a vac scheme/TC. The other stages are where one can truly grow and develop exponentially.

 

[NikkiT]

Completely agree with this. Sometimes people over prepare and get a very strong mindset on what a written exercise should be structured like. They then get into the exercise and apply that thinking despite instructions saying otherwise or the content not really needing that format. There is nothing wrong with preparing but always do so with an open and flexible mindset. You need to adapt your thinking to the situation you are presented with, not with the situation you prepared for.

Hi @Jessica Booker,

How would you recommend preparing for a written exercise at an AC?

Also, do you have any tips on preparing for the group exercise?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Just having to send my CV to someone, and I am spotting errors that were in previous version I sent other people

 

[aspiringlawyer123_]

Does anyone have any thoughts for what questions I could ask interviewers at the end of an interview if I already did a vacation scheme with this firm last summer (where I had all of my questions answered hahah)?

 

[LawfulRust00]

Does anyone have any thoughts for what questions I could ask interviewers at the end of an interview if I already did a vacation scheme with this firm last summer (where I had all of my questions answered hahah)?

Potentially: ‘In your view, what is the main way in which the firm has changed since last year?’

 

[Zubin]

Does anyone have any thoughts for what questions I could ask interviewers at the end of an interview if I already did a vacation scheme with this firm last summer (where I had all of my questions answered hahah)?

If it's an interview with associates/partners, I always enjoy asking about how their practice area/industry is impacted by current affairs. It shows commercial awareness and general interest - particularly if you can introduce the question by outlining how you think that practice/industry may be affected, and engage in a discussion or debate with them.
If GR, perhaps asking about changes to training, new initiatives they're starting, their favourite aspects of the firm, or anything personal really!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Does anyone have any thoughts for what questions I could ask interviewers at the end of an interview if I already did a vacation scheme with this firm last summer (where I had all of my questions answered hahah)?

I always stress to people that they need to look at asking questions as the opposite way as most people approach them. Most people ask questions to try and impress in an interview, but my view is that this is your opportunity to ask the things that help you decide whether this is the right firm for you. Even if you are fairly sure this is the right firm for you, what would you want to ask the firm if you magically had five competitor offers on your desk? How would the questions help you decide that this firm is the one you want to choose over the other four?

Also, time has passed. Things do not stay constant. So you could ask about something the firm started doing/implementing/changing when you were there last summer - for instance, how is that progressing since you left the firm?

You could ask about their opinion on something - just because you have been told certain things, you haven't heard this person's opinion on a particular topic. As a lawyer, it is always good to try and look at things from different perspectives

You could ask about their experience in something - again, just because you were told something by someone else, doesn't necessarily mean it applies to everyone equally.