TCLA Direct Training Contract Applications Discussion Thread 2024-5

[Ram Sabaratnam]

i literally havent heard anything from Mishcon since i applied in mid-November - should i assume PFO?

Hiya @LawLawLawLawLaw

I wouldn't assume that just yet. In previous application cycles, Mishcon has sometimes only progressed candidates several months after applying. This is often just a result of the sheer volume of applications they receive. In my own case, during one cycle, I applied in November and wasn’t progressed until May! I definitely think there's still hope. Try not to worry too much just yet. In the meantime, if you have the energy, it might be worth sending out a few more vacation scheme or direct training contract applications to other firms. It’s always good to keep your options open while waiting to hear back. Hope you get some good news soon!

 

[👩🎓]

Hi everyone, does anyone have any advice regarding Foot Anstey's test and VI?

 

[vschemer]

Hi all, currently facing a dilemma and would really appreciate any insight.

Between Cleary Gottlieb, Weil, Davis Polk, and Sullivan & Cromwell where would it be best to accept a training contract. Thinking in terms of quality of work, ability to lateral in the future if need be, and calibre of training.

Thank you in advance!

 

[desperateTCseeker1998]

*Cough cough* HSF. 👀😂​

This one has always really bothered me. Who did they pay to get ranked so highly on that ‘social mobility employers index’ thing when they only hire through 2 week long vacation schemes that are inaccessible for a lot of ‘socially mobile’ candidates?

 

[Broadwater]

Tell me about it! Appreciate I’m going to sound like an arse here but here goes… honestly I have 10 years corporate banking experience closing deals for multinational corporates all over the world. I guarantee there is very little for me to gain from your poxy 2 week vacation scheme.

I know that sounds entitled but it feels like such an unnecessary hoop to jump through and isn’t suitable for every situation.

Not to mention using 2 weeks annual leave for the privilege!

It’s not about you. It’s about them wanting to assess you before they drop ~£100k on training you

 

[desperateTCseeker1998]

For King & Spalding, are people providing first year grades? For some reason 'Please list below the breakdown of all confirmed (final) module grades to date:' reads to me like we only need to list the modules which count towards our final grade

 

[yk1906]

Do the firms actually contact the referees? So many firms ask for two, not even one, and I am quite worried to make my already busy professors even busier...

 

[Jessica Booker]

For King & Spalding, are people providing first year grades? For some reason 'Please list below the breakdown of all confirmed (final) module grades to date:' reads to me like we only need to list the modules which count towards our final grade

I think they mean you don’t have to include grades for modules that are not fully complete (eg if you have completed earlier assessed essays but not summer exams), but I read this that you would need to include and fully completed first year modules whether they count towards your degree or not.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Do the firms actually contact the referees? So many firms ask for two, not even one, and I am quite worried to make my already busy professors even busier...

yes - I wouldn’t worry about this too much though, both firms and universities manage it in their own way. Many professors delegate the references to admin in their faculty office for instance.

 

[desperateTCseeker1998]

I think they mean you don’t have to include grades for modules that are not fully complete (eg if you have completed earlier assessed essays but not summer exams), but I read this that you would need to include and fully completed first year modules whether they count towards your degree or not.

Thanks Jessica!

Also where are people finding info for the K&S application? they have barely anything about the TC on their website, no chambers student profile etc so basically only the Legal Cheek page is directly about the TC and that's not very detailed.

 

[SamiyaJ]

Wishing everyone a positive and prosperous week ahead! ✨

 

[3000to1shoteverytime]

Just adding to the PEP calculations debate. It doesn't always show profitability accurately as some partnerships have equity partners on a lockstep basis. Also some firms earmark a portion of profits for both the non equity partner bonus "pots" and indeed other fee earners and non-fee earner "pots" , i.e., they distribute a percentage of it to their staff rather than keeping all profit for distribution amongst full equity partners.

 

[gazdgazd11]

If anyone has done the DWF AC and has any advice, please message me

Is your AC for direct tc or vac scheme?

 

[shays]

anyone heard back from HL following WG? for DTC

 

[spamelinazoid]

It’s not about you. It’s about them wanting to assess you before they drop ~£100k on training you

Plenty of other industries offer jobs with intense and expensive training without having do to 2-3 week internships for them.

And plenty of the people doing these vac schemes have a terrible attitude and teamworking skills which only come to light once they get the TC and actually start working - at least thats been my experience working in a law firm for 3 years (and directly meeting a few such).

That is to say, a vac scheme does not guarantee the quality of the candidate. Which is why making it a 2-3 week (10-15 calendar days) mandatory step in the application process is ridiculous and alienating for a very large part of the candidate pool, among which some are likely very good candidates for the role, or even better than some vac schemers in the long run.

ETA: In my firm a very healthy chunk of the TC holders are from the Direct route. The most obvious difference between them and the vac schemers is that they tend to be older with more work experience (and better workload management and communication). Not exactly negatives.

 

[yk1906]

Withers SJT: tried to choose answers showing that I like explaining things to people to make info more accessible (and I genuinely do...), and got the Explainer strength as my weakness.... But they show your lowest score compared to other strengths, so maybe it's not that bad. Would like to hear other people's experience with the test

 

[Broadwater]

Plenty of other industries offer jobs with intense and expensive training without having do to 2-3 week internships for them.

And plenty of the people doing these vac schemes have a terrible attitude and teamworking skills which only come to light once they get the TC and actually start working - at least thats been my experience working in a law firm for 3 years (and directly meeting a few such).

That is to say, a vac scheme does not guarantee the quality of the candidate. Which is why making it a 2-3 week mandatory step in the application process is ridiculous and alienating for a very large part of the candidate pool, among which some are likely very good candidates for the role, or even better than some vac schemers in the long run.

A vac scheme obviously doesn’t guarantee quality but it gives the firm many more data points from which to judge a candidate than just an assessment centre.

Besides, if the firm is missing out on talent, then that’s their problem isn’t it? There are lots of great law firms out there that run direct TC processes that career changers/graduates can apply for if attending a vac scheme is difficult

iirc investment banks recruit from ~10 week summer internships that they only offer to undergrads which makes law seem very open-minded in comparison!

 

[thelawjournal]

Hi, does anyone who has done the Mayer Brown SJT know whether there is a video interview element?

 

[spamelinazoid]

A vac scheme obviously doesn’t guarantee quality but it gives the firm many more data points from which to judge a candidate than just an assessment centre.

Besides, if the firm is missing out on talent, then that’s their problem isn’t it? There are lots of great law firms out there that run direct TC processes that career changers/graduates can apply for if attending a vac scheme is difficult

iirc investment banks recruit from ~10 week summer internships that they only offer to undergrads which makes law seem very open-minded in comparison!

imo such firms do not care that much about losing out on talent, as long as x amount of candidates tick x amount of boxes from this limited candidate pool.

It’s a problem for older applicants because it limits the amount of firms they have access to apply to, and it especially is a problem for international students/grads who have visa restrictions. Not all firms sponsor visas, and some of the ones that do only recruit from vac schemes, which students and grads may not be able to do due to visa restrictions.

ETA: not always the case re investment banks and internships, but most also offer greater remuneration than law and intense training with accompanying certification for what is essentially a one year crash course.

 

[norothrow324]

Hi, does anyone who has done the Mayer Brown SJT know whether there is a video interview element?

It does. Did you get an invite?