General Discussion Thread 2020-21

[Helena]

I've mostly seen oxbridge, UCL, LSE, Durham, Exeter, Warwick, Bristol students that tend to have it a bit easier with paralegalling with an agency straight out of uni. Especially if they'd done a vacation scheme. I've seen people get it relatively easy when they're from those unis and have like good grades too.

Well I had a first from Exeter and that was not my experience. It’s easy to generalise and I just want to put forward another side to the story. It is competitive.

 

[MarathonNotaSprint]

I've mostly seen oxbridge, UCL, LSE, Durham, Exeter, Warwick, Bristol students that tend to have it a bit easier with paralegalling with an agency straight out of uni. Especially if they'd done a vacation scheme. I've seen people get it relatively easy when they're from those unis and have like good grades too.

I agree however, not always the case as I graduated from a non-Russell group and still managed to secure paralegal positions via agency after university.

 

[Pallatablelawyer]

Well I had a first from Exeter and that was not my experience. It’s easy to generalise and I just want to put forward another side to the story. It is competitive.

I wasn't generalising though. I'm sorry if I case I'm across that way. It's Just what I've seen. Russel group + vac scheme+ good grades is easier sell. This is exactly what I was told by an agency. I'm still signed up with them anyway but I've been unable to take work due to visa conditions.

 

[Jessica Booker]

£30-40k will be a tough ask for most industries. If you think paralegalling is too competitive, than £30-40k entry level job (mostly finance) will be far more competitive.

Exception will be if you have extensive tech skills/a computer science degree, or other niche STEM knowledge.

sorry whoever found this unhelpful - sometimes the truth hurts!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey! Not currently working in this industry but recruitment is quite lucrative and most recruitment firms are not as competitive as the legal industry. I say this from experience as I previously worked in that industry.

In terms of pay within that band rate, I’d target finance recruitment and tech recruitment firms. Hope this helps!

recruitment will not be an industry to go into currently!

 

[c1070]

Does anyone have any interesting job areas outside of law that they are working in in London? Will be looking for a decently paid job (£30k-£40k) soon that isn't paralegalling (too competitive). Thanks for the help in advance

I am not saying this to be unhelpful, but other than law, finance, civil service and some STEM positions there are not a huge amount of options for grad level jobs that pay that much. I have friends in some really interesting jobs in london in research/social policy, international development research, marketing, PR etc. but not many of these pay above 28k and I believe (although am happy to be corrected) that this is pretty standard. The civil service pays well and has some really interesting opportunities but recruitment is super competitive

If its any help, I'm currently doing a 12 month legal internship at an an enormous media organisation and its the most interesting experience I've had. Its paid, enough for me to live completely independently of my parents, pay rent and bills in a Clapham flat, pay for the tube, food etc and still live a relatively fun life going out and stuff. I am on significantly LESS than 30k a year and still live quite comfortably, so if you think you can, maybe lower expectations with salary to open up more interesting opportunities! I think we'd all love to be on 40k straight out of uni haha
(thats presuming you are, and if you have lots of other experience then obviously things are different, but given you said paralegalling is too competitive I am assuming your experience is limited)

 

[Jessica Booker]

Agree with the above - although even roles in the civil service are unlikely to meet the £30k mark unless you are going in with experience or a very specific set of knowledge they need.

But even then those roles are more competitive than law firms to be frank with people! Having seen how recruitment works across various sectors, including the civil service, law is actually one of the least competitive sectors - it just sets very high standards/has high expectations.

Try applying to some finance roles in the investment industry where you can easily get over 1000 applications per vacancy!

 

[J88]

Just out of interest: does anyone know why salaries are so transparent in City law firms compared to other sectors/jobs? There's a lot of articles about NQ salary and salary rises etc. but (in my experience), I rarely see a bank, PR agency, a computer science job or a civil service position etc. disclose the salary in such an explicit way? Those positions normally just state 'competitive/market rate'.

Is it because there are many different positions in those organisations (so it's hard to disclose a base uniform salary), whereas in City law firms, most people apply to be a trainee/lawyer?

 

[W]

Just out of interest: does anyone know why salaries are so transparent in City law firms compared to other sectors/jobs? There's a lot of articles about NQ salary and salary rises etc. but (in my experience), I rarely see a bank, PR agency, a computer science job or a civil service position etc. disclose the salary in such an explicit way? Those positions normally just state 'competitive/market rate'.

Is it because there are many different positions in those organisations (so it's hard to disclose a base uniform salary), whereas in City law firms, most people apply to be a trainee/lawyer?

Good question, it may be to attract a wide range of “talent” and if a candidate knows the salary of a firm from the offset, they may be more inclined to apply there? But I’m not entirely sure tbh

 

[D]

Just out of interest: does anyone know why salaries are so transparent in City law firms compared to other sectors/jobs? There's a lot of articles about NQ salary and salary rises etc. but (in my experience), I rarely see a bank, PR agency, a computer science job or a civil service position etc. disclose the salary in such an explicit way? Those positions normally just state 'competitive/market rate'.

Is it because there are many different positions in those organisations (so it's hard to disclose a base uniform salary), whereas in City law firms, most people apply to be a trainee/lawyer?

In my view, it's just become another PR tactics for firms to look to recruit the "best".

To be fair, it has worked. American Firms are seemingly much more prevalent to the average undergraduate applicant nowadays and I imagine this is mostly thanks to the significantly higher salaries they pay on average.

 

[J88]

Thanks for the replies - but I don’t think these answers explain why some sectors don’t publish salaries as often as city law firms (e.g IB and consultancy salaries are quite hard to find for individual firms)

Do these IB/consultancy places not want to attract the 'best talent’ too? Or do they already have the 'best talent’ applying to them, because everyone knows they pay a lot? Surely a large number of people are also aware that city law firms pay a lot compared to the national median?

my question is more to do with city law firms vs other sectors (rather than why city law firms do it at all, if that makes sense)

 

[M&ALawyer]

COVID-19, University Grades, Law firm applications

A lot of universities have now introduced a 'no detriment policy' for final years, that is our final year mark will be obtained through assessing performance in first and second years OR marks achieved in the third year before COVID-19. In light of this, some will achieve a high first class through only passing their exams in the third year.

Do you think law firms will still pay close attention to final year modules affected by the coronavirus when applying in the next cycle?

In my situation; I have had good grades until COVID-19 - which has caused a lot of disruption in terms of exam preparation/studying. My university has mitigated these circumstances by ensuring my grade classification is my high predicted grade, but I don't know if law firms will still look down at any potential poor modules achieved in the coming months.

Thanks!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Just out of interest: does anyone know why salaries are so transparent in City law firms compared to other sectors/jobs? There's a lot of articles about NQ salary and salary rises etc. but (in my experience), I rarely see a bank, PR agency, a computer science job or a civil service position etc. disclose the salary in such an explicit way? Those positions normally just state 'competitive/market rate'.

Is it because there are many different positions in those organisations (so it's hard to disclose a base uniform salary), whereas in City law firms, most people apply to be a trainee/lawyer?

Civil service have clear pay bands - you can find them online and you will always see the band advertised on the job advert/description

Law firms are mostly privately owned companies which makes pay disclosure easier. It comes from the PQE system - firms rely on this a lot less than they used to, but it was a system to keep things fairer, with bonus systems used to incentivise good performance.

 

[Jessica Booker]

COVID-19, University Grades, Law firm applications

A lot of universities have now introduced a 'no detriment policy' for final years, that is our final year mark will be obtained through assessing performance in first and second years OR marks achieved in the third year before COVID-19. In light of this, some will achieve a high first class through only passing their exams in the third year.

Do you think law firms will still pay close attention to final year modules affected by the coronavirus when applying in the next cycle?

In my situation; I have had good grades until COVID-19 - which has caused a lot of disruption in terms of exam preparation/studying. My university has mitigated these circumstances by ensuring my grade classification is my high predicted grade, but I don't know if law firms will still look down at poor grades in these circumstances.

Thanks!

there is a lot more to an application than grades.

there is the largest set of extenuating circumstances going - pretty much every applicant who studied this year will be affected. Many people who have graduated will have gaps on their CV where gaining employment will be more difficult.

Firms will take what they can into consideration. I wouldn’t worry about this.

 

[Jason S]

COVID-19, University Grades, Law firm applications

A lot of universities have now introduced a 'no detriment policy' for final years, that is our final year mark will be obtained through assessing performance in first and second years OR marks achieved in the third year before COVID-19. In light of this, some will achieve a high first class through only passing their exams in the third year.

Do you think law firms will still pay close attention to final year modules affected by the coronavirus when applying in the next cycle?

In my situation; I have had good grades until COVID-19 - which has caused a lot of disruption in terms of exam preparation/studying. My university has mitigated these circumstances by ensuring my grade classification is my high predicted grade, but I don't know if law firms will still look down at any potential poor modules achieved in the coming months.

Thanks!

Gutted I graduated last year, as someone who sucks at exams this policy would have been great for me. I guess it is different for aspiring solicitors though because of the need to perform well in each module. Still, for other graduates this exam period will be an absolute doss

 

[acceleratedlaw]

Hey has anyone done the trowers interview or written assessment yet? Any general advice ?

 

[STWO]

I am not saying this to be unhelpful, but other than law, finance, civil service and some STEM positions there are not a huge amount of options for grad level jobs that pay that much. I have friends in some really interesting jobs in london in research/social policy, international development research, marketing, PR etc. but not many of these pay above 28k and I believe (although am happy to be corrected) that this is pretty standard. The civil service pays well and has some really interesting opportunities but recruitment is super competitive

If its any help, I'm currently doing a 12 month legal internship at an an enormous media organisation and its the most interesting experience I've had. Its paid, enough for me to live completely independently of my parents, pay rent and bills in a Clapham flat, pay for the tube, food etc and still live a relatively fun life going out and stuff. I am on significantly LESS than 30k a year and still live quite comfortably, so if you think you can, maybe lower expectations with salary to open up more interesting opportunities! I think we'd all love to be on 40k straight out of uni haha
(thats presuming you are, and if you have lots of other experience then obviously things are different, but given you said paralegalling is too competitive I am assuming your experience is limited)

Thank you for your response to my post and anyone else that did too. I graduated in 2016 and have been a paralegal ever since outside of London so i have the experience but i wanted to have a backup plan in case i couldn't secure another paralegal role in the city! I asked between that pay range because i do know of people who went on to do compliance jobs and easily make this amount, so i know it is definitely possible. I just wanted to know about other industry areas where people have been successful. Thanks again

 

[Ifmhouse4]

Hey has anyone done the trowers interview or written assessment yet? Any general advice ?

Hi there! had the interview this morning the Partner was really nice, she just asked things like the usual Why this law firm, why law etc. As well as this, a few questions like 'what is your biggest achievement' hope that helps!

 

[Olivia99]

Hi there! had the interview this morning the Partner was really nice, she just asked things like the usual Why this law firm, why law etc. As well as this, a few questions like 'what is your biggest achievement' hope that helps!

Thanks for the advice, hope it went well! I was just wondering whether there were any commercial questions?

 

[kslwnd]

Hi everyone! Does anyone know whether it is more advantageous (re securing a TC) to choose earlier scheme dates for a vacation scheme? I have a summer one coming up and have been given the choice to do either July or August start.