TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[fidrrygalka]

FOR THOSE WHO ARE STILL WAITING FROM PAUL, WEISS POST-INTERVIEW:

Not sure if this is considered inappropriate but I just thought it would be nice for all of us if we do a simple 'experiment'... I'll explain.

For context, I know that PW has sent more interview invites that are now being held that extend at least until next week. They have filled all Spring places for sure and a few on the Summer scheme, so these interviews are going to be the ones that make up for the last couple of spots for Summer.

A few of us have sent emails to chase for a timeline for the outcome, based on legitimate personal reasons. As far as I'm aware, they haven't replied to any of us, nor sent out any PFOs post-interview.

Here's what I'm proposing:
- We can all react to this post that indicates whether we selected only Spring, only Summer, or both for our scheme preference. (Wow emoji for Spring, sad emoji for Summer, and angry emoji for both)
- We will wait until we eventually hear back from PW.
- We can then come back to this post and check if any of us have actually been offered a place on the Summer scheme.

Purpose of this 'experiment':
- To see if we are really being ghosted here or if we are basically being placed on something like a waiting list.
- To get a better understanding of how PW is reviewing interviews, e.g. whether they have basically decided to reject those who applied for Spring and are only deciding between those who chose Summer or both Spring and Summer.

I believe this is something we can do in our very limited power to get ourselves a clearer picture of how recruitment works for PW, albeit retrospectively, particularly when clarity is not offered to us.

Still ghosted post-app…. 😂😂😂😂 At this point i would just like to know why, if some PFOs have been given out already

 

[student353]

Still ghosted post-app…. 😂😂😂😂 At this point i would just like to know why, if some PFOs have been given out already

Have some pfos been given out?

 

[Mara]

At the rate PW are going, there should be like a support group for being aired by them…

“Hi my name is…. And I have fallen victim to PW”

 

[fidrrygalka]

Have some pfos been given out?

According to the earlier posts here there were, probably around a month ago if i remember correctly?

 

[student353]

According to the earlier posts here there were, probably around a month ago if i remember correctly?

Ah I thought pfos post interview, no worries

 

[fidrrygalka]

Ah I thought pfos post interview, no worries

Ahh sorry for confusion then!!

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Hi @Jessica Booker @Ram Sabaratnam @Andrei Radu!

Apologies if this is a bit of a silly question 😅 but if a firm asks you to write a bio for a VS (which will be added to a doc for the whole office to see) - how do you recommend structuring this? Thank you!

Hiya @KBanana


Not a silly question at all. In my experience, the structure of your bio will usually depend on how formal the firm expects it to be and whether they've provided specific instructions. For example, during my vacation schemes, some firms included clear prompts in their emails, asking us to mention specific details such as university attended, interesting facts about ourselves, or even our favourite movie or hobby. If the tone is intended to be more casual or friendly, you might want to introduce yourself in the first person, saying something along the lines of: "Hi! I'm Ram, a recent LLB graduate from UCL. I was born and raised in Canada, and in my spare time, I really enjoy pro bono volunteer work at my university's legal clinic, travelling, and visiting museums and galleries."

If the bio is expected to be more formal or professional, I find that writing it in the third person usually is helpful. In that case, I'd say something like: "Ram Sabaratnam is a recent LLB graduate from University College London. In his spare time, he enjoys writing for the Justice Gap and volunteering at his university’s refugee law clinic." It may be worth clarifying with graduate recruitment team directly, just to make sure you write the bio in a way that matches the firm's expectations. You can just confirm with them how formal the tone should be and if there is any particular word count they have in mind.

Hope that helps!

 

[LawJourney101]

How long after an AC do we find out from Hogan Lovells? I understand that people tend to hear back within a couple of days if they are successful. (looks like I haven't been).

 

[VMS]

Assuming we can disclose now.. CRS Spring VS actually can’t believe it 🥳🥳 so exciting can’t wait!!

CRS Spring VS! Does anyone have tips or resources to prepare for a pre-VS written assessment?

Same - see you there!

Same!!! See you all there! Let me know if you want to connect on LinkedIn before

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi! Just wondering what do students normally do if they fail to secure a TC or VS in their Final Year. Do they self-fund the SQE or do most take a gap year and spend the year applying to all firms? What would you suggest for an International Student (considering they need to apply for the Graduate Visa and also universities).
I would like to hear your thoughts on this. A friend of mine is a Final Year and he is wondering what to do next, considering that he is graduating this summer and he is an International Student.

Thank you so much!! @Jessica Booker @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam

As @Jesscia Booker said, there is not a right or wrong answer as this will be highly dependent on one's circumstances; moreover, I definitely do not think the choice is a 'decisive' one, in that there are plenty of people who succeed with both approaches. That said, if I were in this position, the following would be the central factors in my decision-making:

1. How easily can you self-finance? Would parents or family be able (and willing) to cover it, or would you need to take any debt? If the latter, this would be a huge minus. However, even if you can self-fund, if this will make a significant dent into your/your family's savings, this is also a factor to consider.
2. What does your applications history look like? Have you gave it your all (making lots and lots of high quality applications, have through research on each firm, went to firm events, kept up with commercial awareness etc) consistently and still not succeeded? If so, perhaps it is a good idea to do the SQE to boost your candidate profile - since there would not that much you can do independently of such a boost to significantly improve success chances. If however your application cycle efforts have not quite been up to the (quite high) standard I was describing above, perhaps it is worth another shot; particularly as if you do not do the SQE you would have a lot more time to invest to ensure you do everything right and maximize your chances to score well in every assessment criterion.
3. Would there be anything else I can and want to do besides applications if I do not self-fund the SQE, or would this just be a 'gap year'? Of course, another job/do a postgrad would clash with the idea of not doing the SQE to have all the time in the world for applications. However, if you could take on a part-time role or enroll in a course that is not very demanding (at least during the main application cycle months), this could serve the SQE's function to boost your candidate profile.
4. What firms are you targeting? Apparently, different firms care to a different extent whether you have already completed the SQE. While the cost-saving involved would likely be a benefit in the eyes of any firm, the level to which this will increase your chances will vary. Anecdotally, US firms in particular but MC firms as well tend to care less about it; whereas more mid-market firms tend to care more. The reason would be that the former category simply have a significantly stronger financial position, and as such, the savings involved in not having to sponsor your SQE would be more of a drop in a bucket than for the latter.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker @Ram Sabaratnam @Andrei Radu!

Apologies if this is a bit of a silly question 😅 but if a firm asks you to write a bio for a VS (which will be added to a doc for the whole office to see) - how do you recommend structuring this? Thank you!

Has the firm given you an example or any guidance on how to write it? A lot of firms do so that your writing is going to be fairly consistent with other vacation scheme students. If they have given this to you, then always follow their structure and guidance first.

If they haven't provided anything to you, then something like the following length would be appropriate:

Jess studied Economics and Social Studies at the University of Manchester, graduating with a first-class honours in 2004. Since then, she has worked in the Early Careers sector for a range of companies across the legal, professional services, investment and FMCG sectors. Before her career, Jess was a Chef, working in various pubs and also as a Chalet host in the French Alps. She continues to love both cooking and skiing, as well as trying to keep up with her hyperactive dog, Dennis. Jess looks forward to understanding more about the firm's clients during the vacation scheme, as well as learning more about the firm's diversity initiatives.

It might be that they want you to write in the first person though - I have just written in the third person due to habit!

Ultimately try to include:

- Key and relevant facts about your background
- 1 or 2 key achievements (I included my degree classification)
- Something about your interests - what you do outside of work/study
- Something interesting about you - maybe something more unique (why I always throw in the fact I was a chef)
- If you feel comfortable doing so, something slightly light-hearted or that could be a conversation starter (why I reference my dog. Dennis!).
- Adding some kind of reference as to what you hope to gain by attending the scheme

 

[BBsharkk]

I’m not sure what’s happening with them because I sent them an email not too long after they called me with a VS offer. They responded to the email fairly quickly. I hope it isn’t the case that they are airing or ghosting people as that would be really unfair. Which email are you guys using to contact them? Have you also tried to call any of their grad rec numbers? 🥲

I guess one theory could be that they will send out all of the post-interview PFOs to everyone still waiting once they’ve filled both Spring and Summer VS. To my knowledge, Spring VS is full and Summer VS is around 50% full. A fair number of people have PM’d me on this forum who received interviews within the last week, but those were for Summer VS only. 🥲

I hope they get back to everyone that is still waiting post interview soon!​

Yes, that is exactly what I'm guessing - they are just waiting to reject all those who have interviewed before this week and are simply ghosting us.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi @Jessica Booker @Ram Sabaratnam @Andrei Radu!

Apologies if this is a bit of a silly question 😅 but if a firm asks you to write a bio for a VS (which will be added to a doc for the whole office to see) - how do you recommend structuring this? Thank you!

I do not have much to add to what @Jessica Booker said here, just thought to give you an example of a bio I wrote which the firm said was good:

Andrei is a second-year law student at University College London. He has developed an interest in commercial law through his studies, having been awarded the Simon Wallace Memorial Prize for the highest Year 1 grade in Contract Law. He went on to complete a one-month legal internship at DLA Piper, an experience which confirmed his desire to become a solicitor.

Besides law, Andrei has a passion for philosophy. In 2022, he represented Romania in the International Philosophy Olympiad was awarded an honorary mention. In his free time, he also enjoys watching football – his favourite team is FC Barcelona.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Would it seem weird to schedule """coffee chats""" (as people call them) and then drink water/another non-coffee beverage?

I completely second @Jessica Booker on this although I wish I knew it back in the day - speaking from personal experience, you do not want to end up having drank your 5th coffee of the day at 4pm 🥲

 

[User5678]

Congratulations to everyone who got an offer from CRS! celebrate your huge achievement today!!

 

[Andrei Radu]

What websites could one use to thoroughly research a firm and what questions should I be asking myself when researching @Amma Usman

Just to add to the great post by @Amma Usman perhaps it would be useful for you to see some of the other resources I used and my process management method. The the starting point would be to "split" the law firm up between a number of different categories, which I would then represent as subheadings in a Firm Research document on Word. Among the categories I used I included: Firm Basics, Financial Results, Business Strategy and Outlook, Main Practice Areas, Deals/Cases, Client Base, Awards & Recognition, Training Programme Details, Lateral Hires and Other News, Culture, DEI, and Pro Bono. This helped me immensely not just in better organizing the information I found, but in knowing what to look for.

In terms of the steps I took and the resources I used, I followed the approach bellow:

1. First, get the 'Firm Basics' right: what is its size, what countries does it have offices in, what work is it known for, what does its history look like and in particular what does its history in London look like etc.
2. Then, using a combination of searches using key terms on Google, the firm's own website and their LinkedIn account, try to fill as much information under those headings as you can.
3. Thirdly, use Chambers Student Guide, Chambers UK 2025 and Chambers Global; but also Legal 500 and for US firms Vault 2025 to get (i) a good firm overview; and (ii) a deeper analysis of practice area/sector expertise.
4. Fourthly, use the wider legal press to find out more insights on all of the previous points, but in particular for practice area expertise and business performance compared to competitors. Here I advise you to simply type the name of the firm in the search bar of the following publications: The Lawyer, Law.com, Bloomberg Law, The Global Legal Post, Business Law, and sometimes even Legal Cheeck. Some require a subscription but you may be able to access without paying using your university account.
5. Fifth, if the time allows for it look if there are any further resources you can use, such as podcasts and youtube channels - some done by the firm itself, and some run by the legal press (see The Lawyer's, Bloomberg Law, and Law, Disrupted).

In have also quoted bellow a post that I think you may find very useful; it explains in depth what questions to ask yourself to really individuate a firm and distinguish yourself from other top candidates with the depth of your understanding.

Hey @AS24! Just to add to @Ram Sabaratnam's great response, I've copied bellow an answer I gave to a similar question asked by another user. For context, he asked more broadly about how he can individuate a firm's practice areas beyond just ascertaining whether they are reputable or not (using Legal 500/Chambers rankings). Essentially, their worry was that if you do not find anything more specific, you will not be able to discuss practice areas as a convincing 'Why this firm' reason, as many competitors would have similarly strong reputations for it. While this is a slightly more general analysis of how to use practice areas as a 'Why the firm' reason, I think you will find everything applies in the context of trying to formulate a specific corporate M&A-based motivation.

• I think that it is still fine to discuss a practice area as a reason for why the firm, as long as (i) while the strength/reputation/other relevant features of the practice area may not differentiate the firm from every single competitor, it still differentiates it from most of them; and (ii) if taken in conjunction with your other 'Why the firm' reasons, there would be no other firm this equally applies to. In practice it may be hard to find multiple truly unique USPs for every firm, but what you may find more easily is a set of characteristics only present at few other firm. which, when taken together, make your firm unique.
  
  However, I will add that although general reputation/market recognition is an important feature in assessing a firm's practice area, it does not necessarily tell the full story. Other aspects you may consider include: what is the size of the practice area within the firm, and how important of a revenue generator is it? how many practitioners and partners does it have, and does it punch above its weight in terms of impact when compared to the sizes of similarly ranked firms? what is the history of the practice area within the firm - has it seen a lot of recent growth, or has it always been a core part of the firm's practice? and what are the firm's plans in the future for it? does the firm have a very strong reputation only in the UK, or also in other important jurisdictions and globally? are there any specific features of the practice's client base as compared to that of its rivals'? are there any particular sectors that the practice has particular expertise in? how is the practice areas subdivided between different teams? are there any specific high-end mandates that the firm has recently won - and what might you infer from that regarding the market position of the firm's practice area as compared to that of its rivals'? are there any more specific awards and recognitions for the relevant practice area, besides the usual Chambers/Legal 500 rankings? when taken together with other strong practice areas of the firm, are there significant cross-selling opportunities? When you start researching all of these questions, you will find that although initially two practices might have looked very similar because they had the same Chambers band ranking, they have many features that can differentiate them. Once you identify those, you can consider why those more specific features could be of benefit you/be of interest. This way, you can eventually end up with a truly unique practice-area based USP.
  
  
• To give you a more concrete example - when I was applying to Davis Polk, I saw they had a band 5 Chambers UK corporate M&A ranking. Initially, I thought it would be difficult to write a persuasive USP based on that, as there were other firms with higher corporate M&A Chambers UK rankings. However, upon further research, I found out that (i) Davis Polk had s significantly smaller corporate M&A practice than any of the other ranked firms - with less than 1/3 of the total number of practitioners than similarly ranked firms; (ii) Davis Polk was ranked as the most efficient corporate practice in the UK, with the highest Revenue Per Lawyer (RPL) and Revenue Per Partner (RPP) of any firm; (iii) Davis Polk globally had the highest average corporate deal value of any firm - suggesting a low volume/high value model; (iv) Davis Polk had won various corporate/PE deal of the year or team of the year awards. When taking all these factors together, it was easy to think of an USP in terms of Davis Polk a small but extremely high quality practice, which I could then connect to my motivations to be a become a great corporate lawyer and to work in small teams.

 

[A worried graduate]

Just to add to the great post by @Amma Usman perhaps it would be useful for you to see some of the other resources I used and my process management method. The the starting point would be to "split" the law firm up between a number of different categories, which I would then represent as subheadings in a Firm Research document on Word. Among the categories I used I included: Firm Basics, Financial Results, Business Strategy and Outlook, Main Practice Areas, Deals/Cases, Client Base, Awards & Recognition, Training Programme Details, Lateral Hires and Other News, Culture, DEI, and Pro Bono. This helped me immensely not just in better organizing the information I found, but in knowing what to look for.

In terms of the steps I took and the resources I used, I followed the approach bellow:

1. First, get the 'Firm Basics' right: what is its size, what countries does it have offices in, what work is it known for, what does its history look like and in particular what does its history in London look like etc.
2. Then, using a combination of searches using key terms on Google, the firm's own website and their LinkedIn account, try to fill as much information under those headings as you can.
3. Thirdly, use Chambers Student Guide, Chambers UK 2025 and Chambers Global; but also Legal 500 and for US firms Vault 2025 to get (i) a good firm overview; and (ii) a deeper analysis of practice area/sector expertise.
4. Fourthly, use the wider legal press to find out more insights on all of the previous points, but in particular for practice area expertise and business performance compared to competitors. Here I advise you to simply type the name of the firm in the search bar of the following publications: The Lawyer, Law.com, Bloomberg Law, The Global Legal Post, Business Law, and sometimes even Legal Cheeck. Some require a subscription but you may be able to access without paying using your university account.
5. Fifth, if the time allows for it look if there are any further resources you can use, such as podcasts and youtube channels - some done by the firm itself, and some run by the legal press (see The Lawyer's, Bloomberg Law, and Law, Disrupted).

In have also quoted bellow a post that I think you may find very useful; it explains in depth what questions to ask yourself to really individuate a firm and distinguish yourself from other top candidates with the depth of your understanding.

Do you have guidance for dealing with paywalls in these instances?

 

[splishsplash1234]

has anyone else also heard nothing from Debevoise? should I assume the worst? Is there feedback?

 

[Someoneinlaw]

Did anyone apply to Linklater’s link up event? If so, have you heard back?

 

[trainee4u]

Do you have guidance for dealing with paywalls in these instances?

It's not clear how legal it is to bypass paywalls.

You can read about a popular tool that does this here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bypass_Paywalls_Clean