TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[EA95]

Received a PFO from Paul,Weiss, as expected tbh, but pretty demoralising that they took this long to hand it to me.

 

[Babablacksheep]

With group exercises, I mainly have experience with case study ones where We need to advise a client or find a solution. For these, it was just keeping up with commercial awareness but also making sure I am confident in the firms practices and capabilities (for example explaining recommending to the client [role played by partner] a specific practice that could help with this issue).

On the day, it was just being friendly, getting into the character (e.g., associate in corporate), including quiet people, and also creating a time plan for the exercise (e.g., if we had 1 hour to discuss and create a presentation breaking down the time into discussions, voting, presentation plan, and practise).

Thank you!

 

[lawyersum]

Hey, I can totally resonate with how you’re feeling! I graduated in 2017 with a degree in psychology and decided to pursue law instead a year later. I constantly applied for VS/TCs year after year for three years to no avail; never even getting past the application/testing stage. You can only imagine how demoralising getting rejection after rejection was. But I guess one thing this taught me was resilience.

The next year (2022/2023 cycle), I approached the cycle differently. I spent the summer really researching, trying to actually understand what I was looking for from a firm. I narrowed down the firms I wanted to apply to 8. From September-November, I made 3 applications, ended up with 2 VS offers and a training contract. You’ve got to bounce back. My mentality at the time was, ‘I’m eventually gonna get a TC, it’s just a matter of when. Just keep at it! It only takes one. You’ve got this💪🏾
Also, utilise all resources at your disposal: aspiring solicitors, STRIVE, rare, TCLA, the commercial law academy etc.

Thank you so much, your journey is honestly amazing - well done to you! Reading this has definitely given me a push

 

[Jessica Booker]

Just over a day, so I am definitely not too worried yet! But just wanted to anticipate any delays and understand how long it is appropriate to wait

I'd generally wait until late Tuesday or early Wednesday before chasing up. If they have said 24 hours, I would wait 72 hours before chasing up unless it was super time urgent and you needed the documents ahead of another deadline.

 

[johnnysins]

Tuesday of the next week I think. Are they keeping you on hold post-WG?

They have kept me on hold as well, not sure if a follow-up email is necessary or if I should just assume a rejection haha

 

[billyonthespeeddial]

They have kept me on hold as well, not sure if a follow-up email is necessary or if I should just assume a rejection haha

If there is no second batch, the last interviews are taking place tomorrow. Sadly I think it might be a rejection

 

[johnnysins]

If there is no second batch, the last interviews are taking place tomorrow. Sadly I think it might be a rejection

Yeap seems like the most sensible option

 

[Hghasvision]

@

You will need to send something in writing to formally withdraw your candidacy. If this is before you have taken any financial support or started the onboarding process for the GDL/SQE, then this will be fairly straight forward. Normally I would recommend speaking to the GR/HR team over the phone before sending something in writing, especially if you have had a lot of interaction with the firm (such as attending a vacation scheme), but a lot of people don't feel comfortable doing this and so they just send an email instead.

I would recommend being clear on why you are reneging. If you don't, the firm is likely to ask why you are reneging anyway, so probably worthwhile disclosing anyway. The firm is likely to ask which firm you will be joining instead if you are reneging for another offer.

Thanks for this @Jessica Booker Can I ask why they ask which firm I am joining - is it to contact them? I wouldn't want to risk losing my other offer

 

[Jessica Booker]

@

Thanks for this Jessica! Can I ask why they ask which firm I am joining - is it to contact them? I wouldn't want to risk losing my other offer

No - they won’t contact the firm. That’s a breach of GDPR.

They want to know who they are losing talent to. It’s a legitimate question to ask. I have asked this question to anyone who has turned down any job I have been recruiting for. Recruiters need to know who they are losing talent to so they can ensure future recruitment is more successful.

 

[AS24]

Has anyone completed a summer vacation scheme AC at Mishcon on the first of April and received a response from the firm?

 

[heyheyyy]

Does anyone have tips on the final training contract interview (post-vacation scheme). I was wondering how you can use your vacation scheme experience to support your answer of Why do you want to work at this firm and why law. Thank you !

 

[a512003]

You will need to send something in writing to formally withdraw your candidacy. If this is before you have taken any financial support or started the onboarding process for the GDL/SQE, then this will be fairly straight forward. Normally I would recommend speaking to the GR/HR team over the phone before sending something in writing, especially if you have had a lot of interaction with the firm (such as attending a vacation scheme), but a lot of people don't feel comfortable doing this and so they just send an email instead.

I would recommend being clear on why you are reneging. If you don't, the firm is likely to ask why you are reneging anyway, so probably worthwhile disclosing anyway. The firm is likely to ask which firm you will be joining instead if you are reneging for another offer.

This is super helpful thank you- could I ask how/if the process would change if you had already started onboarding for a course? I imagine you would have to pay back any money the firm has paid to enrol you in the course, but presuming that the course hasn't started yet (e.g. you withdraw in July) is it reasonable to assume this would just be a deposit, not the entire course fees?

 

[Jessica Booker]

This is super helpful thank you- could I ask how/if the process would change if you had already started onboarding for a course? I imagine you would have to pay back any money the firm has paid to enrol you in the course, but presuming that the course hasn't started yet (e.g. you withdraw in July) is it reasonable to assume this would just be a deposit, not the entire course fees?

I don't think you can assume it would just be the deposit - the firm could be liable for the full fees, especially if they cannot back fill your place.

Generally my advice is at the point you are starting onboarding processes you are making a commitment to the firm that is sponsoring you. If you are unsure about joining the firm, it is probably best to consider asking the firm to defer you or to decline the offer you have been given.

 

[badmintonflyinginsect]

scared i might not convert my VS into TC. 6 offers went out on thursday from 15 of us. i dont think they have more.

 

[helenaskelton]

Has anyone heard from Stephenson Harwood post VI?

 

[Starfish31]

Hey guys, sorry if this is the same type of question being mentioned again but I just got a Travers Smith offer and they do two dates - is there any advantage to doing an earlier date or are the chances of getting a TC equal?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey guys, sorry if this is the same type of question being mentioned again but I just got a Travers Smith offer and they do two dates - is there any advantage to doing an earlier date or are the chances of getting a TC equal?

I would go with the dates that works best for you - your chances will not be determined by which scheme you do.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Anyone have advice on how to convert VS to TC, I keep struggling starting to think I might never will?

Hi @Kodak123 I know how difficult it must feel to be rejected after a VS, but you should know that getting to this stage already demonstrates that you have everything it takes to succeed. Conversion is a game of really small margins and luck certainly plays a significant role, as different firms will weigh assessment criteria differently in their decision-making - a candidate that would be offered the TC with no second thoughts at one firm might well be rejected by another. That said, of course you want to be proactive in integrating feedback and doing all you can to maximize your conversion chances for future vacation schemes. I have collated bellow some of my best advice.

Firstly, consider doing the following in the preparation period before the vacation scheme starts:

1. Review you firm research and answers for motivational questions: in many of the conversations you will be having with people at the firm, and in particular with the more senior practitioners, you will likely be asked some questions around your interest in the firm and your general motivations and journey. While they will not be assessed like formal interviews, it is important to impress, or at the very least not to make a bad impression. Also, this will be a good opportunity to see if you can update and add any insights to your answers (ie you might mention a deal or award that the firm recently got) which will distinguish you from others.
2. Brush up on your commercial awareness: while the specific way commercial awareness matters for the purposes of conversion tends to differ on a firm by firm basis, it is almost always an important factor. As such, in the coming weeks before the VS I would pay extra close attention to business news and see if there are any updates I should be aware about on important topics (inflation and monetary figures, economic growth, capital markets and dealmaking activity, etc). At the same time, try to fill any gaps in your general knowledge of how businesses work, the different economic sectors, and the roles and functions of the different actors and instruments in the world of finance and investing. I highly recommend Investopedia to build up your knowledge of business jargon.
3. Research the practice areas you will sit in: once you find out what your seats will be, take some time to understand what it is exactly lawyers in those practices do - why do clients need their services, and how do those services differ from those offered by other practice areas? Furthermore, try to get an understanding as to how delivering those services works in practice: what are the different workstreams and tasks involved on typical client matters, and which of those are trainees/vacation schemers most likely to work on? For this, I highly recommend the Westlaw/Practical Law Introductory Practice Area Guides; they go in a lot more detail than you will be expected to know but are the most comprehensive resource I know of.
4. Reach out and build rapport with people at the firm: It is always a good idea to try to build rapport early with people at the firm. As such, you could consider sending a LinkedIn text/email asking for advice or a chat with a trainee at the firm, particularly if you have met them in the past. I would also target people who are currently doing a seat in the practice area you have been allocated, as they will be able to give you the best advice on preparation. Building rapport with them is also particularly important, as graduate recruitment tends to emphasize the reviews of people in your seat when collating input for a TC offer decision. However, avoid appearing overeager and annoying people with busy schedules. Be very straightforward about your intentions and show your appreciation for the time they decide to give to you.

As for what to do during the vacation scheme itself, I advise the following:

• Be confident: while it sounds very cliche, I think this is a key factor impacting conversion chances. Having gotten to this stage out of a huge pool of applicants, you should be certain of the fact that you are an exceptional candidate and have everything you need to succeed. However, I have seen many people simply get too intimidated by the context of a prestigious commercial law firm, which disabled them from showing their skills, knowledge, and personality. Aim not to do that: be active, ask many questions, and communicate your thoughts and views, even if you are not 100% sure they are completely accurate.
• Be proactive and do your tasks well: an important trait firms look for in candidates is enthusiasm and initiative, so you definitely try to show that. One of the best ways of doing it is not waiting to be given work, but proactively going around and asking for it. When receiving a piece of work, I advise you to ask for detailed instruction, useful resources, supporting or guiding materials (such as similar work products completed by others in the past), and details as to deadlines and the expected time this should take to complete. At the end, it is always good to ask for feedback and then to try to act upon it on further tasks.
• Find out what are the most important assessment criteria for conversion (particularly by speaking with grad rec or current trainees): Different firms have different policies - for instance, in my case conversion at Slaughter and May was 100% determined by the final TC interview and written task, at Willkie it was mostly determined by the quality of your work and your integration in the firm's culture, at Milbank it was a combination of the final assessment and the impression you left on people on your team. To maximize conversion chances, you should modify your approach to match the factors emphasized by each firm.
• Take notes and be reflective: as you go through the vacation scheme, at the end of each day, write down a short summary of what you did: who did you meet and what did you learn from them, what tasks did you work on, what sessions did you attend etc. Firstly, this will help you in better answering some of the common questions you get when interacting with people at the firm ('How are you finding the experience?' etc. Secondly, as you approach the final interview, this will help you with being reflecting about the experience and showing that you have taken all the opportunities the firm offered.
• Meet as many people as possible, particularly in your department, but do not overdo it. Of course, it is great to integrate yourself as much as you can and to make as many people as possible notice you. However, you should not be spending every second of the day inviting people for coffee chats. Firstly, there are many other things you should be doing, like getting involved in different workstreams, attending sessions, and deepening your relationship with people you have already met, such as your supervisor. Secondly, as you will know, lawyers are often very stressed and have very little free time on their hands. Most will accept coffee chat requests, but they will appreciate if you do not waste their time by asking to meet only with a view of getting them to potentially put in a good word for you. Thus, I would advise you to always have a genuine reason for meeting someone. That does not need to necessarily be work-related - you can simply ask for a coffee chat because you want to introduce yourself and get to know people in the firm - but you should be upfront about it. Furthermore, try to get an idea from your supervisor as to who is more and less busy at the moment and avoid targeting the former.
• Mirror the attitude of those around you, and know when to be more relaxed: a crucial element of succeeding in many vacation schemes is to be able to build rapport with a few important people - particularly your supervisor, one or two lawyers you will get to work more with, and the recruitment partners. Try to read the attitude and expectations of those people and do not always attempt to impress them. In my experience, the people who ended up not converting tended to be the slightly overbearing ones who wanted to be constantly seen. Sometimes, such as at an event over drinks or at a lunch, people will want to simply relax a bit and forget about work. Other times, they may be too busy and stressed to want to engage with you about something serious. They could and also many times do want to take a slightly more lighthearted approach when talking about their work, so try not to seem like you are taking yourself too seriously. From what I have seen, people more often fail in adapting to these circumstances rather that when adapting to more formal dynamics.

 

[Fitzroy]

I’m currently assuming a PFO, but has anyone actually been rejected from Mischon post Summer Vac scheme VI yet?

They suggested they’d respond by the end of March, now it’s the end of April and I’ve heard nothing 🤔

 

[Flu1dity]

I’m currently assuming a PFO, but has anyone actually been rejected from Mischon post Summer Vac scheme VI yet?

They suggested they’d respond by the end of March, now it’s the end of April and I’ve heard nothing 🤔

The AC's were all end of March/start of April so I'm afraid you're assuming correctly