TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[sddjjdkqks]

Hey! Winston & Strawn Interview later this week. I was wondering who the firms main competitors are generally and especially with regards to International Arbitration and M&A work for PE funds. I was also wondering if anyone could provide more insight into the firm's position in the market. Thanks a ton for the help!

 

[lawyersum]

Hey @Andrei Radu! What do you think are the differences in structure (if any) when answering why commercial law in a cover letter vs in an application form question with a 250/300 word limit? Would love to know your thoughts! Thanks

 

[brookscharlie]

Hi everyone,

I’m in the very fortunate position of having been offered training contracts at Freshfields, Weil, Slaughters and White & Case. I've narrowed it down to Freshfields and White & Case, but I’m having a really hard time deciding between the two.

I know both firms are outstanding, and I thoroughly enjoyed my time at each, I genuinely feel I’d fit in well at either. I have an interest in arbitration and litigation, though I appreciate that these interests may evolve over time.

In the longer term, I’d love to become a KC and solicitor advocate, with the potential-ambitious as it may be-of possibly joining the judiciary one day. I know it’s not the traditional route but I also know of a few solicitors who’ve taken this path.

With that in mind, I’d really appreciate any insights or advice anyone might have about which offer to accept.

Thanks all!

 

[Chris Brown]

Hi everyone,

I’m in the very fortunate position of having been offered training contracts at Freshfields, Weil, Slaughters and White & Case. I've narrowed it down to Freshfields and White & Case, but I’m having a really hard time deciding between the two.

I know both firms are outstanding, and I thoroughly enjoyed my time at each, I genuinely feel I’d fit in well at either. I have an interest in arbitration and litigation, though I appreciate that these interests may evolve over time.

In the longer term, I’d love to become a KC and solicitor advocate, with the potential-ambitious as it may be-of possibly joining the judiciary one day. I know it’s not the traditional route but I also know of a few solicitors who’ve taken this path.

With that in mind, I’d really appreciate any insights or advice anyone might have about which offer to accept.

Thanks all!

Firstly, huge congrats on securing TC offers from all these firms. That is some GOATed stuff right there my friend! 🐐

In terms of your question, I think Freshfields is the strongest out of these firms for dispute resolution (litigation and arbitration). I think Freshfields is also really strong at M&A, Private Equity, Restructuring, Competition Law and Life Sciences (Band 1 on Chambers & Partners). 🙂

I imagine since Freshfields has a 8-seat TC, you can explore more practice areas. I guess it depends on how varied your interests are. I vaguely remember there is a KC lawyer at Freshfields (Will Thomas KC) who specialises in arbitration and public international law. 😅​

 

[toad92]

Hi everyone,

I’m in the very fortunate position of having been offered training contracts at Freshfields, Weil, Slaughters and White & Case. I've narrowed it down to Freshfields and White & Case, but I’m having a really hard time deciding between the two.

I know both firms are outstanding, and I thoroughly enjoyed my time at each, I genuinely feel I’d fit in well at either. I have an interest in arbitration and litigation, though I appreciate that these interests may evolve over time.

In the longer term, I’d love to become a KC and solicitor advocate, with the potential-ambitious as it may be-of possibly joining the judiciary one day. I know it’s not the traditional route but I also know of a few solicitors who’ve taken this path.

With that in mind, I’d really appreciate any insights or advice anyone might have about which offer to accept.

Thanks all!

Suffering from success wowww congrats

As a fellow enjoyer of disputes i’d choose w&c, not on any intellectual, well thought out consideration of pros + cons, going off pure vibes 🤝

Very similar trainee retention rates, quality of work, international opportunities and (bad) work/life balance with those firms, but at w&c you’d perhaps be doing work that’s a bit more engaging as there are fewer trainees as US firms usually have more of a learn by doing vib

Although might want to consider the fact US firms are on a bit of a mad one right now though with trump in office

 

[3000to1shoteverytime]

Ah yes, Grant Thornton’s final stage assessment centre.

First off, bring your own stapler. At GT, stationery dominance is everything.

Next, when they ask you to do a group exercise, insist on leading a guided meditation instead. Say it’s a “strategic mindfulness audit.” Don’t let anyone speak until they’ve understood you.

In the interview, only answer questions using the format of Love Island confessionals. E.g., “So I walked into the boardroom, yeah, and I was like, this valuation is giving cringe vibes.”

Also, they love initiative – so bring your own snacks and start selling them to other candidates at a 40% markup.

If you don’t receive an offer, it’s only because they weren’t ready for your visionary leadership.

Best of luck!

I assumed they meant Greenberg Traurig as their interviews were recently held

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hey @Andrei Radu! What do you think are the differences in structure (if any) when answering why commercial law in a cover letter vs in an application form question with a 250/300 word limit? Would love to know your thoughts! Thanks

I think the cover letter answer provides you with different word limit constraints but also gives you a lot more flexibility in navigating that. If the word cap is a lot higher (I have seen firms accept two page cover letters or up to 1500 words) this will simply mean you can discuss your interest in commercial law in a lot more depth. Thus, instead of a simple structure involving a statement of two/three reasons and working through two/three examples to illustrate them, you might afford to take a more narrative approach, giving a historical overview of the development of your interest. This could also enable you to draw comparisons with other career paths you considered when making your choice, potentially making your analysis more compelling.

If the word count limit is similar or lower, you will still have a degree of flexibility. For instance, if you have to fit everything into 900 words, this would prima facie come up to around 300 for each of the three major sections (Why commercial law, Why you, Why the firm). However, there is no strict rule that they should be evenly proportioned. If you think your 'Why commercial law' section would benefit a lot more from an extra 50 words than you 'Why me' section, there is no issue going for a 350:250 split.

Finally, an final important point regarding difference in structure for the cover letter answer is its interconnectedness. You may think that since the cover letter answers the same questions as the application form does, there should not be much of a difference. Nonetheless, in my opinion, the format of the cover letter invites you to provide one coherent whole, whereas the application form section-by-section answers are meant to be treated separately. For the cover letter you therefore want to think about how the different sections interact and what are their common points to make sure the entire answer has a proper 'flow'. Thus, it is a lot more important to ensure there are no repetitions or apparent contradictions in your writing.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi everyone,

I’m in the very fortunate position of having been offered training contracts at Freshfields, Weil, Slaughters and White & Case. I've narrowed it down to Freshfields and White & Case, but I’m having a really hard time deciding between the two.

I know both firms are outstanding, and I thoroughly enjoyed my time at each, I genuinely feel I’d fit in well at either. I have an interest in arbitration and litigation, though I appreciate that these interests may evolve over time.

In the longer term, I’d love to become a KC and solicitor advocate, with the potential-ambitious as it may be-of possibly joining the judiciary one day. I know it’s not the traditional route but I also know of a few solicitors who’ve taken this path.

With that in mind, I’d really appreciate any insights or advice anyone might have about which offer to accept.

Thanks all!

If becoming a KC is your main goal Freshfields is probably the better bet. Both firms are really strong in international arbitration but Freshfields generally edges White & Case for other types of contentious work. Furthermore, Freshfields is definitely the more historical brand name in England and probably still has greater prestige associated with it in the eyes of older barristers.

If becoming a KC is more of a 'I would love it if this happened but it is not my no 1 career priority' type of consideration, you should take a broader look when comparing the firms. For instance, at White & Case for instance you will arguably get more early responsibility, international exposure, and better compensation, and those considerations might very reasonably sway you.

 

[lawyersum]

I think the cover letter answer provides you with different word limit constraints but also gives you a lot more flexibility in navigating that. If the word cap is a lot higher (I have seen firms accept two page cover letters or up to 1500 words) this will simply mean you can discuss your interest in commercial law in a lot more depth. Thus, instead of a simple structure involving a statement of two/three reasons and working through two/three examples to illustrate them, you might afford to take a more narrative approach, giving a historical overview of the development of your interest. This could also enable you to draw comparisons with other career paths you considered when making your choice, potentially making your analysis more compelling.

If the word count limit is similar or lower, you will still have a degree of flexibility. For instance, if you have to fit everything into 900 words, this would prima facie come up to around 300 for each of the three major sections (Why commercial law, Why you, Why the firm). However, there is no strict rule that they should be evenly proportioned. If you think your 'Why commercial law' section would benefit a lot more from an extra 50 words than you 'Why me' section, there is no issue going for a 350:250 split.

Finally, an final important point regarding difference in structure for the cover letter answer is its interconnectedness. You may think that since the cover letter answers the same questions as the application form does, there should not be much of a difference. Nonetheless, in my opinion, the format of the cover letter invites you to provide one coherent whole, whereas the application form section-by-section answers are meant to be treated separately. For the cover letter you therefore want to think about how the different sections interact and what are their common points to make sure the entire answer has a proper 'flow'. Thus, it is a lot more important to ensure there are no repetitions or apparent contradictions in your writing.

Great, thanks Andrei - this is very helpful!

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hey! Winston & Strawn Interview later this week. I was wondering who the firms main competitors are generally and especially with regards to International Arbitration and M&A work for PE funds. I was also wondering if anyone could provide more insight into the firm's position in the market. Thanks a ton for the help!

I know they focus more on the lower/mid-market segment in PE, where main US-based competitors would be Goodwin, Jones Day, Akin, and McDermott. Generally, I think Legal 500 will be quite helpful for this kind of more granular comparisons, as they divide up practice areas in more narrow market segments.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi everyone,
I have been invited to a final interview with Harbottle and Lewis for a TC and would appreciate any advice on how to prepare. It is a 1 hour interview with 2 partners.

Hi @Meghna and huge congratulations for getting to the final stage 🥳 ! My best advice for preparation is presented in a step by step manner in the Complete Competency Interview Guide. It describe the approach that secured me an offer 4/4 times I implemented it.

 

[lilypetunia1]

gutted, didnt get anything at all and now looking down the barrel of having nothing planned for next year. What should I do at this point? Start applying for masters? Just do the SQE without a training contract lined up? Would really appreciate some guidance x

 

[bluescarf]

If the firm have offered to reimburse travel costs is it normal to request this before or after the event?

 

[studentdelaw786]

Faegre VS interview invite

Congratulations! Do you know if more invites are expected to be sent out this week?

 

[mg42guy32]

gutted, didnt get anything at all and now looking down the barrel of having nothing planned for next year. What should I do at this point? Start applying for masters? Just do the SQE without a training contract lined up? Would really appreciate some guidance x

I’m likely in the same position (final year non law) but I would try and see if there’s any legal or useful work experience you can do during the summer instead. For example I applied to this project with my university where I work with global universities to find solutions for non profits and I’ll try to use the skills and experiences in my next applications and will also try to do legal volunteering. I’d also start prepping early for the next cycle and know the ins and outs of the firms you want to apply to whether that’s LinkedIn, meeting trainees etc. I’d also if you haven’t keep working on commercial awareness by keeping track of current deals your dream firms are doing.

For now I’m personally going to take it as a gap year and work part time while applying for winter, springs for some and summers and will just prep as much as possible so I can get applications in early and at a high quality since I made it to a couple VIs and penultimate stages but simply didn’t prep enough. If I don’t get one however I will likely look for a paralegal role or begin my pgdl or in your case sqe. If you do however just want to get the sqe out the way definitely do that but I’d bear in mind not all firms will reimburse you (very stingy ik).

But even though I’m not an expert I’d definitely say don’t stress many trainees I’ve met from Cooley to Mishcon to W&C didn’t get the role straight out but had to do more than one or two cycles (someone at W&C did 6!)

I hope I was slightly helpful but if not I apologise haha!

 

[lilypetunia1]

I’m likely in the same position (final year non law) but I would try and see if there’s any legal or useful work experience you can do during the summer instead. For example I applied to this project with my university where I work with global universities to find solutions for non profits and I’ll try to use the skills and experiences in my next applications and will also try to do legal volunteering. I’d also start prepping early for the next cycle and know the ins and outs of the firms you want to apply to whether that’s LinkedIn, meeting trainees etc. I’d also if you haven’t keep working on commercial awareness by keeping track of current deals your dream firms are doing.

For now I’m personally going to take it as a gap year and work part time while applying for winter, springs for some and summers and will just prep as much as possible so I can get applications in early and at a high quality since I made it to a couple VIs and penultimate stages but simply didn’t prep enough. If I don’t get one however I will likely look for a paralegal role or begin my pgdl or in your case sqe. If you do however just want to get the sqe out the way definitely do that but I’d bear in mind not all firms will reimburse you (very stingy ik).

But even though I’m not an expert I’d definitely say don’t stress many trainees I’ve met from Cooley to Mishcon to W&C didn’t get the role straight out but had to do more than one or two cycles (someone at W&C did 6!)

I hope I was slightly helpful but if not I apologise haha!

thank you very much that's really reassuring

 

[Legallywhatever]

Any updates re michelmores for anyone?

 

[mg42guy32]

thank you very much that's really reassuring

Glad I could help

 

[Chris Brown]

If the firm have offered to reimburse travel costs is it normal to request this before or after the event?

I think it’s more common to request after the event than before, simply because something can happen last minute (e.g., train cancellation or illness) that means you can’t travel. I think some firms will give in advance though, if you would struggle financially with buying the train tickets (e.g., HSF, Slaughters, CC). 😅

In my experience, having gone to a few open days, firms sent travel reimbursement forms to attendees after the event. It normally takes up to 4 weeks for the money to appear in your bank account. For some firms, it took around a week. It depends on how many reimbursement forms they have to handle. 🥲​

 

[AveragePoster]

Does anyone know how long after the Winston & Strawn VS AC we can expect to hear back?