TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[TC129129]

@Jessica Booker I have a question pls... I have 3 VS coming up in the summer but am in the final round for a direct TC. If i was offered the TC, do/can I still do the Vac Schemes? Or would I have to make the decision if I am accepting before the Vac Schemes? Equally, Can I accept the offer and then withdraw if I was to be offered a TC from a Vac Scheme at a firm I prefer?!

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

Random question to people on this forum - how long does the average application take you? I've been trying to get my time down, but apps seem to consistently take me 15-20 hours to write, which seems like a ridiculous amount of time to spend on them.

 

[Chris Brown]

Random question to people on this forum - how long does the average application take you? I've been trying to get my time down, but apps seem to consistently take me 15-20 hours to write, which seems like a ridiculous amount of time to spend on them.

It varied for each application. For example, it took me a lot longer to complete applications that required a cover letter + long answer questions (White & Case, Travers Smith, etc) or that had several long answer questions (BCLP, SH, HL and Covington). Each of these applications took me at least 30 hours in total. 🥲

On average, it took me around 20 hours for each application (spread over several weeks). I would start multiple applications at the same time that had similar deadlines and work on each of them simultaneously. I think the fastest application I wrote was Macfarlanes (10 hours), as they only had 2 application questions. 😅​

 

[User5678]

@Jessica Booker hi, PHB app has a ques which asked if we require a permit to work in the UK. They do not sponsor international students.

While i do require a permit to work in the UK so i ticked yes in the form, i already have a permit and can complete my training contract without sponsorship from them.

Do you think I should email them as I do not want to get rejected based on this.

Many thanks

 

[trainee4u]

Random question to people on this forum - how long does the average application take you? I've been trying to get my time down, but apps seem to consistently take me 15-20 hours to write, which seems like a ridiculous amount of time to spend on them.

I'd say on average two to three hours, but definitely do spend longer sometimes, and have also done quite a few quicker too!

It really depends on the questions - you've got a lot of copy/paste type questions "challenging situation", where I would just copy-edit and spend only a few minutes on that question.

Other times it's a bit more time-consuming, e.g., "talk about a current commercial issue", and you've got to find something new for their sector. But then you might be able to reuse that commercial issue for another firm in the same sector.

In terms of "why this firm", this requires most research I guess, but I tend to focus on trying to relate my skills to their obvious practice areas off Legal 500 and so on, rather than drilling down too deep. I don't know how strictly effective my approach is: around one in five of my applications get progressed from form stage.

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

It varied for each application. For example, it took me a lot longer to complete applications that required a cover letter + long answer questions (White & Case, Travers Smith, etc) or that had several long answer questions (BCLP, SH, HL and Covington). Each of these applications took me at least 30 hours in total. 🥲

On average, it took me around 20 hours for each application (spread over several weeks). I would start multiple applications at the same time that had similar deadlines and work on each of them simultaneously. I think the fastest application I wrote was Macfarlanes (10 hours), as they only had 2 application questions. 😅​

Hey, you've managed a pretty amazing hit rate with your app strategy, so it seems to be working! It just seems insane to be spending this kind of time applying to jobs - I probably shouldn't be assigning monetary values to these apps, but even applying the national living wage to these, the numbers really add up. It sometimes makes me wonder if this is the best use of my time. Might just be the post-VS-cycle blues.

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

I'd say on average two hours, but definitely do spend longer sometimes.

How?

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

I'd say on average two to three hours, but definitely do spend longer sometimes, and have also done quite a few quicker too!

It really depends on the questions - you've got a lot of copy/paste type questions "challenging situation", where I would just copy-edit and spend only a few minutes on that question.

Other times it's a bit more time-consuming, e.g., "talk about a current commercial issue", and you've got to find something new for their sector. But then you might be able to reuse that commercial issue for another firm in the same sector.

In terms of "why this firm", this requires most research I guess, but I tend to focus on trying to relate my skills to their obvious practice areas off Legal 500 and so on, rather than drilling down too deep. I don't know how strictly effective my approach is: around one in five of my applications get progressed from form stage.

Your approach has been much more effective than mine this cycle...

 

[trainee4u]

How?

In a large part it's volume of applications. E.g., I've got an application for Payne Hicks Beach to do, which I've not started, and which is due today, and I don't know anything about.

They ask for "600 word statement", via allhires. Filling in allhires takes about five minutes via copy-paste and MyLocker, and then I've got a bunch of previous statements that I can mine for a large part of the 600-word statement.

Then I'd go to their website, go to 'People', click on Partners, they've got 46, check what they do, ok "international arbitration", "high net worth", "international immigration", landed estates, etc. Check Legal 500, check Chambers, go through Chambers Student, Legal Cheek, looking for particular comments about the training process, build it into my answer.

Do a double check for grammar and spelling with ChatGPT and then submit.

I've in the past looked at applications on congrapps for law firms that (they say) have made it through to final stages, and I feel like most of them are pretty generic, in the sense that they could follow a similar copy-paste approach in terms of writing about themselves for multiple applications. But it's really hard to say - I don't know if the congrapps are genuinely good or not; IDK, I'm lazy and this approach kinda works for me in the eventually I reach a sufficient zen-like intersection of laziness and deadline-pressure getting me to vomit out sufficient applications to get to sufficient next stages to at some point get a TC.

Unfortunately I've not yet got beyond stage two to get somewhere, so my next master plan of laziness is to write a VI Windows app that spits random VI questions at me from a file, have it record my reply, feed the recorded video into chatgpt to transcribe, ask the AI to insult me sufficiently based on the transcription (and also review it myself), and then try and work on that to do better in interviews.

the most applications I ever did in one day was thirteen (on 31 January):

Curtis (still waiting, assume PFO)
Stevens & Bolton (partner interview - PFO)
DMH Stallard (still waiting)
Gateley (PFOed at stage two: post-VI)
Fox Williams (waiting following third-stage VI)
Ropes (PFOed)
Boodle Hatfield (PFOed)
Shoosmiths (PFOed probably based on SJT?)
Harbottle & Lewis (still waiting, I think PFO?)
Orrick (PFOed)
K&L Gates (PFOed)
Northridge (did the application but didn't realise it was noon cut-off, so didn't actually submit it)
Brown Rudnick (PFOed)

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

In a large part it's volume of applications. E.g., I've got an application for Payne Hicks Beach to do, which I've not started, and which is due today, and I don't know anything about.

They ask for "600 word statement", via allhires. Filling in allhires takes about five minutes via copy-paste and MyLocker, and then I've got a bunch of previous statements that I can mine for a large part of the 600-word statement.

Then I'd go to their website, go to 'People', click on Partners, they've got 46, check what they do, ok "international arbitration", "high net worth", "international immigration", landed estates, etc. Check Legal 500, check Chambers, go through Chambers Student, Legal Cheek, looking for particular comments about the training process, build it into my answer.

Do a double check for grammar and spelling with ChatGPT and then submit.

I've in the past looked at applications on congrapps for law firms that (they say) have made it through to final stages, and I feel like most of them are pretty generic, in the sense that they could follow a similar copy-paste approach in terms of writing about themselves for multiple applications. But it's really hard to say - I don't know if the congrapps are genuinely good or not; IDK, I'm lazy and this approach kinda works for me in the eventually I reach a sufficient zen-like intersection of laziness and deadline-pressure getting me to vomit out sufficient applications to get to sufficient next stages to at some point get a TC.

Unfortunately I've not yet got beyond stage two to get somewhere, so my next master plan of laziness is to write a VI Windows app that spits random VI questions at me from a file, have it record my reply, feed the recorded video into chatgpt to transcribe, ask the AI to insult me sufficiently based on the transcription (and also review it myself), and then try and work on that to do better in interviews.

This is really insightful - thank you for sharing! I imagine the part about searching the website for Partner count and checking for key terms, you could probably build into a prompt for ChatGPT and have even less manual work to do.

I like how you've managed to boil it all down to repeatable/programmable steps. Just rinse and repeat. Probably takes the sting out of rejection too.

 

[Ram Sabaratnam]

Maybe this is greedy of me but do you have a similar insight for BCLP?

Thank you

Haha, cheeky ask @A worried graduate 😄

I tend to save these summaries for firms that don’t get covered as much in TCLA's current directory and firm profiles. Since BCLP is pretty well covered in TCLA’s resources already, I'd recommend having a look through the TCLA firm directory – it’s genuinely one of the best places to start for many of the Magic Circle, US and silver circle firms. If anything in there sparks a question or you want to chat comparisons with other firms, just shout. Happy to help where I can!

 

[trainee4u]

This is really insightful - thank you for sharing! I imagine the part about searching the website for Partner count and checking for key terms, you could probably build into a prompt for ChatGPT and have even less manual work to do.

I like how you've managed to boil it all down to repeatable/programmable steps. Just rinse and repeat. Probably takes the sting out of rejection too.

In terms of ChatGPT, I think yes if you ask a specific 'deepresearch' module then it could probably compile that in about a minute.

I took a look at my Milbank application, which i felt was incredibly generic but made it through:

Why us?
1. explain my international background and how it's relevant to an int'l firm
2. check on Google that they do Sharia finance. Explain my interest. (Reusable point)
3. points from legalcheek/chambers student about their training process, relate to myself: again generic in that other firms will have similar processes
(didn't even mention specific deals or lawyers, so could definitely have gone a lot better)

Your skills to be solicitor
Simple copy paste

Curent affairs topic
I gave some bullet points about AI legal issues including copyright, GDPR, DMA, etc. and related it to investment in AI. This was an answer I repeated to several firms but spending ten minutes perhaps relating it to my understanding of the firm in question.

OTOH I do have non-legal work experience, but the work experience definitely isn't sufficient to get you through - you do need to write relevant, literate answers - I did some even lazier, more terrible answers last year, and it was hopeless - nothing can outweigh a 150-word answer to a 300-word question or whatever

I wouldn't necessarily counsel people to follow my approach in terms of not giving ultra-researched answers, because it might not work for you, depending on what the rest of your application form looks like, but I can say that the more applications you do, the more you will acquire reusable answers to the behavioural type questions, so it definitely makes the process easier.

 

[A worried graduate]

Haha, cheeky ask @A worried graduate 😄

I tend to save these summaries for firms that don’t get covered as much in TCLA's current directory and firm profiles. Since BCLP is pretty well covered in TCLA’s resources already, I'd recommend having a look through the TCLA firm directory – it’s genuinely one of the best places to start for many of the Magic Circle, US and silver circle firms. If anything in there sparks a question or you want to chat comparisons with other firms, just shout. Happy to help where I can!

Love this

Thank you

 

[Paul Jules Steullet]

We have only ONE written exercise for Skadden TC assessment!!!

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker I have a question pls... I have 3 VS coming up in the summer but am in the final round for a direct TC. If i was offered the TC, do/can I still do the Vac Schemes? Or would I have to make the decision if I am accepting before the Vac Schemes? Equally, Can I accept the offer and then withdraw if I was to be offered a TC from a Vac Scheme at a firm I prefer?!

Unfortunately there is no set process for this. Some firms may restrict you from doing vacation schemes if you have accepted a TC, but this may not just be your TC firm, it can also be your VS firms that also have this term. It is worthwhile checking any written offers (both TC and VS) for such terms.

If you are offered a TC, you may only have a few weeks to accept the offer. Some firms may extend the offer until later on in the summer - again this varies massively between firms so its worthwhile reading the TC offer carefully to weigh this into your decision making. You may be able to negotiate an extension of the offer period for any firm where you would have to accept before your VS and which may restrict you from completing your vacation schemes. I have also heard of people being able to negotiate removing clauses from offers that would otherwise restrict them from doing a VS.

If there are no terms, then there is nothing stopping you from proceeding with the vacation schemes. I would recommend reneging any vacation scheme offers where you are certain you wouldn't accept a TC with the firm over the firm you have a TC offer from now. There is little value in completing a vacation scheme if you have no intention of potentially converting to a TC with them and it would be best to focus your effort and energy into the schemes you do potentially prefer.

 

[A worried graduate]

Hill Dickinson second holding email

Almost two heart attacks now

 

[a3736y]

@Jessica Booker or anyone else who has an idea:

I have a summer three-week VS coming in June and am wondering what work experiences I can do in the meantime. I have completed all of my academic studies (just passed all of my SQE exams), so I am essentially free from now until then. I have been making direct TC apps every now and again. I have a four-week QWE from late April to early May. I have no clue how to best make use of my time. Would potential employers view my non-working months in a bad light? I am unsure about paralegal roles due to my unavailability during my VS. Does anyone know what I could do in the meantime (so I would also not be bored to death)?

 

[User5678]

I’ve gotten a holding email from Hill Dickinson that they’ll get back to us by 7 April!!

Seems like they’re gonna send me the PFO by then considering they’ve sent out AC invites😭

 

[Chris Brown]

Hey, you've managed a pretty amazing hit rate with your app strategy, so it seems to be working! It just seems insane to be spending this kind of time applying to jobs - I probably shouldn't be assigning monetary values to these apps, but even applying the national living wage to these, the numbers really add up. It sometimes makes me wonder if this is the best use of my time. Might just be the post-VS-cycle blues.

It’s definitely time consuming but I think it has worked out well for me. I have sent 16 VS applications this cycle and 5 got past the application stage (BCLP, Paul, Weiss, SH, White & Case and Willkie). I am still waiting to hear back from PH. 🥲

I think based on the 15 I know the outcome for, 1 in 3 got past the application stage. Of these, I got 3 VS offers. I think that’s a 1 in 5 rate (application to VS offer). If PH works out, that would be a 1 in 4 rate! 😅

I guess some people are able to send a lot more applications out, spending fewer hours on each. I spent a lot more time on doing firm research than writing. It’s hard balancing sending applications with working full time! 🥲​

 

[aleece]

Anybody still waiting to hear back from Mishcon post-VI for Summer VS?