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TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25
- Thread starter Jessica Booker
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I've found the best way to break into a new area is always personal connections.
1) Reach out to anyone you can think of who might be in law or know someone in law (maybe from your economist exp.) and ask them to put you in touch. Even on nights out/normal social events (& legal events tbf)- you never know who might be able to help, so mention your aspirations with people you genuinely get on with and see where it goes. Talking to someone who works at the firm (eg on LinkedIn) is rlly helpful bc even if they only give you one piece of advice you can name drop them in interviews which helps the interviewer picture you at the firm.
2) In interviews, don't be afraid to disclose personal things if relevant. My paralegal interview at a top London law firm went rlly well bc I shared a health condition as my 'challenging situation' that I got through, and the interviewer had the same health condition…
You're clearly smart and hard-working so you got this, keep going!
I don't think the QS university rankings are considered relevant in the UK. They are very key for example for applicants from foreign countries seeking scholarships where there is a requirement for "top 100 worldwide" or whatever.
However, I would avoid citing them in the UK. They are deliberately gamed by universities seeking foreign students and do not necessarily use relevant measures.
In addition, while undergraduate university is a strong indication of academic ability, the fact is about half (?) of English corporate lawyers do their legal education at a degree mill (Ulaw, BPP), so the idea that corporate clients are concerned that you learned about Shakespeare (or whatever your undergraduate degree was in) from the best profs at the best uni is a little unlikely. Plus general rankings don't reflect individual subject expertise.
That’s all fair enough of course. Interview preparation time just feels wasted. That, and getting your hopes up. Vac schemes don’t feel helpful now. I want to give up, honestly.
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So for everyone, like me, still waiting for R&G, it seems they send out a lot of rejections and then wait a week before sending out more rejections/AC invites, looking at last year. Thinking maybe our apps are potentially reviewed a second time? So could be a while until hearing back.
Where is the implication I made that you had your university place handed to you? You’ve literally proved my point - universities make contextual offers so all universities are accessible to all.
- Sep 7, 2024
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Hiya @4275purplerainbow
Just wanted to chime in and offer some support. Although I'm sure @Andrei Radu @Amma Usman and @Jessica Booker would also have more to add here. I completely sympathise with your point about the challenges faced by non-law students. Non-law graduates often struggle in the application process because they may have less exposure to legal practice areas and may find it harder to demonstrate a clear understanding of a firm’s work. In recent cycles, I've read posts by many non-law students on TCLA who've mentioned how difficult they find it to articulate why they're interested in commercial law (beyond the general idea that it involves businesses and transactions). That said, it's important to note that the cycle isn't over and it's completely possible for you to secure a TC through a direct training contract application.
In my own case, I came to commercial law from a completely different background. But I think there are several ways you can strengthen your profile before reapplying next year. I found attending insight and open days extremely helpful in allowing me to start gaining a sense of different firms and their specialities, as well as where they sat in the broader market.
I'd also recommend gaining practical experience in a legal setting, though this isn’t strictly necessary. For me, this was largely done by working in legal clinics during my studies and on pro bono projects alongside lawyers from large commercial firms. But you can also start applying for paralegal roles or even business development and compliance roles. I've generally found that many places are open to hiring graduates from diverse backgrounds for these kinds of roles.
One area that I think many, many applicants struggle with is commercial awareness. I'm really pleased that more people are recognising how challenging this can be for applicants. I'd highly recommend reading through ZipLaw, LittleLaw and also reviewing any TCLA threads on commercial awareness. Most law students often find it difficult to really draw out the financial, economic, and political implications of certain stories and trends. Given that your background is in econ, I think it's worthwhile thinking more about the legal aspects of the stories/trends that you're interested in. This could help ensure that your commercial awareness is more targeted to the legal profession and focussed on what lawyers do.
These are just some ideas that I wanted to send across, but I really think you can get that training contract. Keep at it and let us know if you have any questions about firms you can apply to for a direct training contract during this cycle
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I think what he means by 'accessibility' is the financial aspect of attending. For me personally, my dad lost his job around the time I was applying to unis and so, even though I got into one of the top unis in my home country, I decided to attend a lower-ranked one so that I wouldn't have to factor in living costs. So even if people get offers to places like Oxbridge, without a full residential scholarship, it might be difficult for someone of a lower socioeconomic background who's from a different part of the country to take up the place.
I understand and I am sorry to hear that. Maybe this is an area that can be improved in the student finance system and increase the number of scholarships. I would hate for someone to work so hard and have to settle for a lower-ranked / unpreferred university because of financial reasons.
Hi, just my two cents.
Firstly, impressive list of achievements! Definitely achievements that would be attractive to the very best law firms
Secondly, I really do not think you *need* legal experience to get a TC and definitely wouldn't need that to get a VS offer. I have attended so many law firm events where lawyers/grad rec reiterate the fact that they know getting legal experience is difficult. What they look for is a manifest interest in commercial law and sharp intellect (through good grades, which you clearly demonstrate).
To demonstrate an interest in commercial law, what I did was to attend a bunch of insight events. I think I attended about 20 events the past two years. Look to apply for competitive insight days as well. I also completed forage internships. This was enough to get me a TC interview invite at Slaughter and May. I had not done a VS before this interview. Of course, it is important to be able to speak about what you learned from these and how they reinforced your interest in commercial law.
Secondly, I think you should be able to show transferable skills. i.e.:how are the things you have already accomplished relevant to law/ how would they make you a good lawyer? In doing this, you would show that you actually know the role of a lawyer and have thought deeply about it- making it clear that this new career trajectory isn't just a whim which can easily change.
There are lots of interconnections between law and economics and so I do think it would be quite easy to come up with a compelling 'why law?' response which shows clear reasoning.
I hope this is useful. Goodluck!
(I also came from a quasi-economics background and have now gotten MC offers this cycle, so just know this is very doable!).
One of their current trainees went to the University of Manchester so I definitely think they consider RG’s especially as they are a sponsor of MULS
Amazing … congratulations!Hi, just my two cents.
Firstly, impressive list of achievements! Definitely achievements that would be attractive to the very best law firms
Secondly, I really do not think you *need* legal experience to get a TC and definitely wouldn't need that to get a VS offer. I have attended so many law firm events where lawyers/grad rec reiterate the fact that they know getting legal experience is difficult. What they look for is a manifest interest in commercial law and sharp intellect (through good grades, which you clearly demonstrate).
To demonstrate an interest in commercial law, what I did was to attend a bunch of insight events. I think I attended about 20 events the past two years. Look to apply for competitive insight days as well. I also completed forage internships. This was enough to get me a TC interview invite at Slaughter and May. I had not done a VS before this interview. Of course, it is important to be able to speak about what you learned from these and how they reinforced your interest in commercial law.
Secondly, I think you should be able to show transferable skills. i.e.:how are the things you have already accomplished relevant to law/ how would they make you a good lawyer? In doing this, you would show that you actually know the role of a lawyer and have thought deeply about it- making it clear that this new career trajectory isn't just a whim which can easily change.
There are lots of interconnections between law and economics and so I do think it would be quite easy to come up with a compelling 'why law?' response which shows clear reasoning.
I hope this is useful. Goodluck!
(I also came from a quasi-economics background and have now gotten MC offers this cycle, so just know this is very doable!).
Thank you for sharing this
I'm so sorry, it's such a shame that all of those have come at once. I hope you have a much better weekend and have the time to take a break from apps!
Jessica Booker
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There are hundreds of thousands of domestic students who do this each year.
50% of first degree students attend a university in their home region. Not all will do this for financial reasons, some will also do it on purpose to remain close to home - for instance you see a much higher proportion of domestic ethnic minority students attend a local university than you do white counterparts, especially certain female ethnic minorities who typically will have higher family demands to stay local.
So for many it’s just not easy to up and move to a well respected university elsewhere in the country.
It’s great if you live in London or other major U.K. cities where you may have options to go to a local university that is highly respected, but if you live in places like Hull, Falmouth, Bangor, Grimsby, travelling hundreds of miles to your nearest “highly ranked” uni is just not an option for many.
Universities aren’t accessible to all though. My point was that some people have the potential to succeed at elite RG universities and have the academic grades to meet their entry requirements, but due to financial circumstances, they are unable to access these institutions due to the higher costs of living. As a result, they end up going to their local university (often a non-RG). I was fortunate in that I had a RG uni closer to my hometown (one of my offers), so I went there and loved my time there as well. It’s still considered a mid-tier RG, but I don’t think anybody would consider it on the same level as say Oxford, Cambridge or LSE.
For a law firm to only accept applications from these certain elite universities knowing that talent isn’t limited to just Oxbridge or LSE, for example, is unfair in my opinion. I have seen people with A*AA at A-level and they went to their local university. A firm like Ropes & Gray seems to have the policy that if someone isn’t a student or graduate of an elite RG, it’s an automatic rejection. I don’t think that’s the fairest policy to have. I think what needs to be seen is universities offering more needs-based scholarships. That way, the best students are gaining entry into these elite institutions (regardless of their background). This isn’t reality right now. Whilst contextual offers help remove some of the barriers to entry, there is so much more that needs to be done in my opinion.
For a law firm to only accept applications from these certain elite universities knowing that talent isn’t limited to just Oxbridge or LSE, for example, is unfair in my opinion. I have seen people with A*AA at A-level and they went to their local university. A firm like Ropes & Gray seems to have the policy that if someone isn’t a student or graduate of an elite RG, it’s an automatic rejection. I don’t think that’s the fairest policy to have. I think what needs to be seen is universities offering more needs-based scholarships. That way, the best students are gaining entry into these elite institutions (regardless of their background). This isn’t reality right now. Whilst contextual offers help remove some of the barriers to entry, there is so much more that needs to be done in my opinion.
Can anyone tell me if I should begin to look at direct TCs or go for the Vac Schemes that are left?
I have no paralegal experience if that is of relevance.
I have no paralegal experience if that is of relevance.
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