TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[futuretrainee!]

I don’t want this to turn into a civil war on the TCLA forum. However, based on what you’ve written, I am under the impression that you acknowledge that without DEI you wouldn’t be where you are now (as a person of colour from a lower socioeconomic background + being neurodiverse), but then simultaneously, you are advocating against DEI practices? The very thing you benefited from, you are now saying it is not fit for purpose? Whilst you might not hold those views yourself, the things you are saying echos the views of people who are anti DEI and anti true meritocracy (which may not even be your intention at all). Please correct me if I have misunderstood because I am very confused right now ngl. 🥲🥲

I agree with your point here: ‘while promoting diversity is valuable, I hope we can agree that merit and capability should remain at the core of any hiring decision’. However, I don’t think anybody here is advocating for the opposite. In contrary, we are highlighting how effectively, we don’t live in a society which promotes meritocracy and hiring purely on the basis of capability and potential. There is, and always has been, bias, prejudice and discrimination against diverse students and candidates for professional job roles. It’s a reality for a lot of us and it’s a shame that there is such widespread misconception about DEI.​

As I have highlighted in my previous comment, I have grievances with the DEI process in the US which works on affirmative action instead of UK's positive action. Unsure where I advocated for anti-meritocracy as my opinion is merit should always supersede in every hiring decision - while diversity checkboxes are important contextualising details, hiring decisions which prioritise diversity, like the US is flawed and implementing a structure similar to the UK seem more appropriate. Since we 'don't live in a society which promotes meritocracy and hiring purely on the basis of capability and potential' DEI is crucial to the extent it is applied in a supplementary manner, like in the UK.

Hope this is clarifying!

 

[elena11]

Hey just had a question - I got a SVS offer that I accepted but have been invited to another SVS AC this week which I attended today. The dates of the two clash, and the firms recruit directly from their schemes. Was there any point going to the AC today? Can I email and ask if I can do a direct TC interview or is that pointless?
@Jessica Booker @Andrei Radu

 

[lawyeringitout]

does anyone know if the second and third round of Milbank ACs were only for summer and only for the Levfin TC?

 

[vschemer]

does anyone know if the second and third round of Milbank ACs were only for summer and only for the Levfin TC?

ik spring and summer were definitely there

 

[Chris Brown]

As I have highlighted in my previous comment, I have grievances with the DEI process in the US which works on affirmative action instead of UK's positive action. Unsure where I advocated for anti-meritocracy as my opinion is merit should always supersede in every hiring decision - while diversity checkboxes are important contextualising details, hiring decisions which prioritise diversity, like the US is flawed and implementing a structure similar to the UK seem more appropriate. Since we 'don't live in a society which promotes meritocracy and hiring purely on the basis of capability and potential' DEI is crucial to the extent it is applied in a supplementary manner, like in the UK.

Hope this is clarifying!

I think we should end this discussion here because it’s clear we are both on opposite sides of the debate. I am someone who firmly believes in the importance of DEI, whether it be for increasing the representation of ethnic minorities, people with disabilities, people from socially mobile, lower socioeconomic backgrounds, or people who identify as LGBTQ, etc. 🙂🙂

I also believe that we are far from being under a system of meritocracy. That is why diversity bodies and initiatives exist (e.g., SEO London, Aspiring Solicitors, GROW Mentoring, etc). I am more than happy to continue this conversation either on another thread or in PM. Best of luck with this application cycle! 🙂🙂​

 

[floral.tcla]

has anyone else not heard from CC SPARK after passing the WG and receiving an email that they'd hear about VIs this week?

 

[floral.tcla]

Jesus, their NQ salary 😂😂

off topic but what kind of name is foot antsy😭

 

[fcac98]

If anyone is doing a Bates Wells assessment centre, would they want to team up to do the prep for it?

 

[heyheyyy]

hi! i was wondering whether anyone heard back from foot anstey aspire programme ?

 

[Tintin06]

Is Arnold & Porter a rejection? Haven’t heard anything since applying there. Also, anything from Winston & Strawn?

 

[Kakaboo]

Hello, I did a video interview 5 weeks ago and haven’t heard anything since. Is it worth chasing this with the firm? Or is this frowned upon?

 

[Chris Brown]

off topic but what kind of name is foot antsy😭

I remember coming across firms like ‘Burges Salmon’, ‘Shoosmiths’ and ‘Bird & Bird’ and I had the exact same thoughts lmao. 😂

Some of these firms have very interesting and creative names. I wonder who thought of them. 🤔​

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey just had a question - I got a SVS offer that I accepted but have been invited to another SVS AC this week which I attended today. The dates of the two clash, and the firms recruit directly from their schemes. Was there any point going to the AC today? Can I email and ask if I can do a direct TC interview or is that pointless?
@Jessica Booker @Andrei Radu

You can always renege on the first firm if you get an offer from the second and prefer them.

But you can also see if either firm has alternative vacation scheme dates they can offer or can offer you a direct TC process.

 

[Tintin06]

I remember coming across firms like ‘Burges Salmon’, ‘Shoosmiths’ and ‘Bird & Bird’ and I had the exact same thoughts lmao. 😂

Some of these firms have very interesting and creative names. I wonder who thought of them. 🤔​

Milbank, Tweed, Hadley & McCloy LLP. Now shortened since the 2019 change.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Question for those who prefer US firms to UK/international firms:

One stereotype I have heard of US firms is that their leaner teams/more recent establishment in London means that training is not as structured as at MC/other firms.

Having done a little research, I understand that this is an oversimplification, if not a misconception. I understand that US firms might approach training differently in the sense of having a more hands-on approach, perhaps as a result of leaner teams. Having a hands-on approach is not necessarily a bad thing - in fact, it can be very good! Being put in the deep end can sometimes force you to swim.

On the flip side, I do appreciate that having close support from the early stages is very helpful. To continue the metaphor, there is still a chance you'll need some armbands.

My question is as follows: in general (or even in reference to specific firms), how do the US firms provide learning support to trainees? How does the support compare to other firms? I'm guessing that leaner teams means you have greater opportunity to built personal rapport with senior lawyers, but that still depends on the luck of the draw (e.g., senior lawyers having the time/desire to support you).

For @Amma Usman @Ram Sabaratnam @Andrei Radu and anyone else with insight
Thank you

That's a very good question. In my experience, US firms tend to provide a number of introductory sessions at the beginning of the TC and/or at the beginning of each seat to get you to understand the basic as to what the role of a trainee is and how to go about completing your work. Afterwards, a lot of the training and support is indeed provided on an on the job setting. The US firms that tend to do the best in this regard do the following:

1. Encourage practitioners to provide detailed instructions to trainees prior to allocating a tasks (including filling them in as to how their work fits into the broader picture) and detailed feedback post completion.
2. Encourage supervisors to manage the trainee's workload so that they get broad exposure to the range of tasks, workstreams, and matters that will best form their knowledge and skillset.
3. Have an open door policy and a culture in which trainees feel comfortable reaching out to team members and asking them questions.

Different US firms are able to do the aforementioned to different extents, but of course that an element of luck still persists. Even if you are able to identify the US firms that provide the best training (which can often be difficult as you will have access to limited information besides the firm's own marketing), different teams within the firm will have different cultures and expectations. The best you can do is to find a firm where all the signs point to the fact that people there generally care for how their more junior team members progress.

But turning back to the US vs UK training model debate, the fundamental reason why I preferred the former was that I thought I would likely learn and improve my skills more when I had the pressure of actual work to deliver rather than when just attending sessions and presentations. Having conversed on this topic with many MC/SC trainees as well as US firm trainees, they both seemed to agree that you learn most when you actually do something, as opposed to just thinking about how you will go about doing it. The downside of the US model is that you will likely have to deal with a lot more stressful situations when you have to figure out things on your own early on - which is why many US trained associates told me the most difficult year of their career was the year when they started their TC. The upside is that you are significantly better prepared for when you start as an NQ. Here, a number of US-trained associates described the experience as "a rather seamless transition", saying that the last week of the TC was more or less the same as the first week as an NQ. UK-trained solicitors however tended to describe the first year post qualification as the most difficult one, as it involved a significantly greater jump in stress and responsibility.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi everyone, (@Ram Sabaratnam @Andrei Radu @Amma Usman)

Could anyone help me with some info - for case study interviews, do I need to prepare a powerpoint presentation or a report of sorts? I’ve just been told it’s a case study interview but I’m not sure how to prepare for it or what to expect after I’ve read the info they’ve given me? Any advice would be appreciated!!

Thank you very much

Case study interviews tend to differ significantly from firm to firm. Some require power points, while some do not but will give you an option to have one. Some will require the preparation of a report/brief on a number of reading materials, whereas others will not and will just start directly with a discussion. Finally, some will require producing a written material, whereas others will be assessed only in the interview itself.

To understand how to best prepare, I would advise you to try to get more information about the assessment format. Consider emailing the firm about it or potentially reaching out to some trainees. Furthermore, I would have a look on TCLA's Interview Database to see if there is any information from candidates who did the interview in previous years.

 

[Tintin06]

That's a very good question. In my experience, US firms tend to provide a number of introductory sessions at the beginning of the TC and/or at the beginning of each seat to get you to understand the basic as to what the role of a trainee is and how to go about completing your work. Afterwards, a lot of the training and support is indeed provided on an on the job setting. The US firms that tend to do the best in this regard do the following:

1. Encourage practitioners to provide detailed instructions to trainees prior to allocating a tasks (including filling them in as to how their work fits into the broader picture) and detailed feedback post completion.
2. Encourage supervisors to manage the trainee's workload so that they get broad exposure to the range of tasks, workstreams, and matters that will best form their knowledge and skillset.
3. Have an open door policy and a culture in which trainees feel comfortable reaching out to team members and asking them questions.

Different US firms are able to do the aforementioned to different extents, but of course that an element of luck still persists. Even if you are able to identify the US firms that provide the best training (which can often be difficult as you will have access to limited information besides the firm's own marketing), different teams within the firm will have different cultures and expectations. The best you can do is to find a firm where all the signs point to the fact that people there generally care for how their more junior team members progress.

But turning back to the US vs UK training model debate, the fundamental reason why I preferred the former was that I thought I would likely learn and improve my skills more when I had the pressure of actual work to deliver rather than when just attending sessions and presentations. Having conversed on this topic with many MC/SC trainees as well as US firm trainees, they both seemed to agree that you learn most when you actually do something, as opposed to just thinking about how you will go about doing it. The downside of the US model is that you will likely have to deal with a lot more stressful situations when you have to figure out things on your own early on - which is why many US trained associates told me the most difficult year of their career was the year when they started their TC. The upside is that you are significantly better prepared for when you start as an NQ. Here, a number of US-trained associates described the experience as "a rather seamless transition", saying that the last week of the TC was more or less the same as the first week as an NQ. UK-trained solicitors however tended to describe the first year post qualification as the most difficult one, as it involved a significantly greater jump in stress and responsibility.

Best US firms here for training? Applying to many US law firms. Is the intake a good guide? Less than 10 a bad sign? Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Paul Jules Steullet]

What a great time to be alive! Trump has definitely hit the ground running and ruffled a few feathers. It’ll be interesting to see what happens in the Middle East and Ukraine under his leadership.

 

[Rhohia]

WBD test core 6,4,6,9.

I swear every amberjack assessment I have different scores for each pillar lol I don’t know how to improve! Anybody get consistent scores?

 

[Chris Brown]

WBD test core 6,4,6,9.

I swear every amberjack assessment I have different scores for each pillar lol I don’t know how to improve! Anybody get consistent scores?

I did one for Paul, Weiss recently and I think I got 7566, which is maybe fairly consistent? It’s the only Amberjack I’ve done so far. I might try squeeze a Stephenson Harwood application in before the 28th and I think they use the same test. 🥲​