TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[navigatinglegal]

Hi @navigatinglegal! I think it is likely that the firm will not be expecting any substantive knowledge for this exercise, but just a general understanding of how businesses work and deal with issues - PR, restructurings, changes in management/policies etc. For a general overview of the topic, take a look at this Investopedia article here and this more detailed IMD article here.

Besides this, I have quoted bellow a post on the forum discussing an AC experience which contained a crisis management task, I hope you find it useful:

thanks so much!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi! Skadden's application asks 'If you could choose a career other than law, what would you choose? (250 words)'

I am unsure how to approach this question, as I don't want the person reading my application to wonder why I didn't choose that career instead. Any advice will be much appreciated - thank you!

My advice for this question is to draw comparisons between the other career and the career at Skadden. What is similar about both careers, whether it be responsbilities, skill set needed, how you work with others etc?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Ram Sabaratnam and @Jessica Booker

I trust you are well.

When answering this kind of question 'Please give details of any interests and extra-curricular activities, including any positions of responsibility or achievements. ', should I mention the skills I acquired? I never know what kind of approach to adopt.
Thank you in advance.

I would prioritise presenting as much varied evidence first, showcasing the outcomes/success from these activities. If you explain what you did and show the success, 9 times out of 10, the skills will be obvious.

For instance, you don’t need to say you have developed your teamworking skills if you evidence working in teams, if you talk about balancing multiple commitments, you don’t need to claim time management skills.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Do we have to attach a CV and cover letter to the Taylor Wessing vac scheme application or just answer the questions in the form? Apologies if this has been asked a thousand times already..

You need to attach a cover letter but the CV is optional. I would only add the CV as well if it contains substantive information that is not already included in the other parts of the application.

 

[helloj]

Can anyone offer guidance on this question from Goodwins application form.
Which other firms are you applying to and why? Max 200 words
Thank you!

 

[Andrei Radu]

Does anyone know much about Simpson Thacher & Bartlett re a Paralegal role? There isn’t much information out there..

Right now, I think they only have a Real Estate Finance paralegal position open - you can see a full list of their available admin/paralegal roles here. I have also linked here the full description of the position, its requirements and its responsibilities. It is quite detailed and through, so you should definitely give it a read before deciding on whether to apply.

 

[a1024]

Describe the personal life experiences that have given you the unique perspective you would bring as a Trainee at Fieldfisher, and how this perspective will support your success. (800 characters)

This is one of the application questions in the fieldfisher training contract application. I was wondering with such less word count, how many experiences should we write about and how much detail should we mention for each?

 

[Andrei Radu]

Can anyone offer guidance on this question from Goodwins application form.
Which other firms are you applying to and why? Max 200 words
Thank you!

Hey @helloj I have actually written a very detailed post on a closely related topic - someone else asked guidance for how to approach the same question, but for the purposes of an interview rather than an application from answer. I have quoted it bellow, as I think almost everything I discussed is equally applicable to the application form question. In the quoted post, you will also find an example of a good and bad answer.

Besides the more analysis in the post, I will quickly reiterate what I think is the most important takeaway advice to write a great answer here:

1. When researching the firm, identify what are Goodwin's two or three major unique selling points (USPs) from your perspective.
2. Have two or three different paragraphs in which you explain why you are attracted to that kind of USP (ie why you are interested in a particular practice area/sector, why a specific training style suits you etc).
3. In each of the two or three paragraphs then list the firms that come closest to Goodwin in terms of scoring well in that relevant criterion and that you have also actually applied to.

Hi @LLB0711 that is a great question, and I actually have not seen any detailed discussion the topic. I think firms are looking for three main things in a candidate when asking the "what other firms have you applied to question":

1. Knowledge of the legal market: the firm wants to see you have properly research the legal market in the City and you know of the different positions and profiles of different firms. Whatever the criteria behind your application strategy (be it practice area or sector strengths, client base, mandates, international offices, size etc), you knowledge of the world of big law will be tested based on your ability to identify the other firms a relevant criterion applies to. This matters to the firm you are interviewing with for two reasons: (a) it evidences a real and constant interest in the world of commercial law, as learning about the different market positions of firms takes time; and (b) it evidences a more genuine interest in their firm, as it shows your application decisions were made from a well-informed perspective.

2. Genuineness of the stated motivations: this brings me to the second point, which is that the firm wants to see whether the reasons you stated for why the firm are genuine. By asking you what other firms you applied to (and potentially the follow-up as to why you chose them) the firm can ascertain the extent to which the underlying motivations behind the 'why the firm' reasons you presented to them also apply to the other choices. For instance, if you were interviewing with Kirkland and mentioned a PE interest as a motivation but then you did not apply to any of the other big names in PE (Latham, Weil, Willkie, Ropes & Gray, Clifford Chance), this might be problematic. Essentially, if the fundamental motivations for the firm cannot be tracked into your wider applications strategy, this could raise doubts as to your sincerity when formulating them. As such, I think most of the examples you list for other firms you applies to should be chosen with a view to being as compatible as possible with your stated motivations for why the firm.

That said, of course you can also be attracted to some different aspects in different firms at the same time while still being genuine. My only two points here are that: (a) there should not be a huge discrepancy in what is attractive to you - at least for most of the firm you list - and (b) that if there is a big motivational discrepancy, in that reasons A B C made you apply for the firm you are now interviewing with and completely different X Y Z reasons made you apply for another firm, you should be prepared to explain why from your point of view reasons A B C are more important and trump reasons X Y Z. Long story short, the outcome you want from this section is to have convinced the interviewer that no other firm scores overall better on a more important relevant set of criteria, which is to say that their firm scores best on your most important set of criteria.

3. Sensible career planning: finally, from my experience firms are also truly interested in whether you are a reflective and sensible person in your career pursuits. As such, you want to demonstrate a nuanced understanding of the pros/cons of different firms, you want the criteria you explain were relevant for you to actually be the type of considerations one can base such an important choice, you want to show you understood the competitive landscape of applications, and that you have pursued the goal of obtaining a TC at a top firm in a consistent and well-planned manner. These are all aspects that evidence you just being a thoughtful and careful person, qualities that are immensely important for a trainee solicitor.

An example of a bad answer that candidates sometimes gave here was to say they only applied for the firm they were interviewing with at the moment. This either showed (i) lack of sufficient awareness of how competitive getting a TC is; (ii) overconfidence; (iii) lack of a sufficiently strong desire to obtain a TC; or (iv) dishonesty in answering an interview question to show oneself as enthusiastic about the firm. As you can appreciate, neither of these disjuncts puts the candidate in a good light.

An example of a better answer here was what I discuessed in a successful VS interview with an elite US firm, which was that I was mainly looking for firms who had (i) strong corporate departments; (ii) gave lots of early responsibility; and (iii) had a smaller trainee intake and office size. I then listed a number of firms in this category (which included the firm I was interviewing at) and explained how I prioritized applying for these firms early in the cycle and how firms in these categories made up for around 60-70% of my applications. Then, I told them how the rest of the 30-40% were split between some larger firms with very good corporate practices (MC or top US) and also a number of more mid-market M&A focused firms (like DLA Piper). I explained how this was due to (a) that while I formed my best possibly informed view on the issue, I was not capable on having a very high degree of certitude as to the which training model and work environment that best suited me - and that as such, I would ideally want to experience a VS in both a larger and in a smaller office and decide on a TC subsequent to that; and (b) in that since my priority goal was to just get a TC from a good firm, taking into account the extreme competitiveness of the process, while I knew my value well enough to mostly apply for what I was most interest in, it made sense to hedge my bets and to not only apply for the most elite of elite firms. When I ended expressing these points, the partner I was speaking to was very impressed and said I had a very sensile approach.

Finally, in choosing how you want to approach constructing your answer you should remember that you likely will not be asked to list every single firm you have applied to. As such, you can pick and choose what examples to mention in a way that best fits your narrative.

 

[Andrei Radu]

Describe the personal life experiences that have given you the unique perspective you would bring as a Trainee at Fieldfisher, and how this perspective will support your success. (800 characters)

This is one of the application questions in the fieldfisher training contract application. I was wondering with such less word count, how many experiences should we write about and how much detail should we mention for each?

I do not think there is any particular right or wrong number of experiences to write about. It all depends on (i) the nature of the experiences - how much detail and word count do you need to properly illustrate your points while being sufficiently specific?; and (ii) how do the experiences relate to each other - do they support the same line of reasoning or general narrative, or are they linked to completely independent points?

My advice is to just pick the two experiences that you think are most relevant and describe them as best as you can, trying to be both very specific and very concise. After that, depending on what word count you reach, you can decide if any how many other experiences you want to add.

 

[Lastseasonwonder]

I have applied to the following firms so far and only heard back from CMS (PFO):

- A&O Shearman
- Akin
- CC (ME)
- Paul, Weiss
- PM
- Weil
- W&C

Feels SO demotivating to continue writing apps, especially knowing I am not hearing back with progress. Every year, it feels more and more impossible to secure a TC fml.

 

[sammm10101]

'Many thanks for recently completing the online assessment as part of your application to Clyde & Co.

We are delighted to share your personalised feedback report, please follow this link to download your report:'

The use of 'delighted' here is absolutely crazy, emotional rollercoaster of an email opening, C&C trying to give me a heart attack

 

[yasmars]

Describe the personal life experiences that have given you the unique perspective you would bring as a Trainee at Fieldfisher, and how this perspective will support your success. (800 characters)

This is one of the application questions in the fieldfisher training contract application. I was wondering with such less word count, how many experiences should we write about and how much detail should we mention for each?

Because the word count is so short I mentioned one experience and spoke in detail about the skills/unique perspective I gained from it.

 

[_shims_]

Hi @_shims_ I would not be too worried about that. When the firm selected this question, it was exactly because they wanted to see what other careers you would be motivated to pursue. I believe this is for three reasons (i) they want to see if there is any overlap between your fundamental motivations for choosing a career in the legal field and your motivations for pursuing an alternative career path; (ii) they want candidates that have seriously considered other careers as well before deciding to commit to law; and (iii) they are interested in recruiting well-rounded individuals with interests and passions outside of law.

The only potential issue of concern regarding tensions with your decision to pursue becoming a commercial solicitor comes at point (i). To address that, I think you want to have as much commonality between the reasons for your interest in the alternative career path and plausible reasons for interest in the work of commercial lawyers. I have recently written a post discussing this, I have quoted it bellow.



Besides this, I have also thought it may be useful to quote a great post and discussion with @Ram Sabaratnam about this question, which provides you with slightly different perspective:

Hi @_shims_ I would not be too worried about that. When the firm selected this question, it was exactly because they wanted to see what other careers you would be motivated to pursue. I believe this is for three reasons (i) they want to see if there is any overlap between your fundamental motivations for choosing a career in the legal field and your motivations for pursuing an alternative career path; (ii) they want candidates that have seriously considered other careers as well before deciding to commit to law; and (iii) they are interested in recruiting well-rounded individuals with interests and passions outside of law.

The only potential issue of concern regarding tensions with your decision to pursue becoming a commercial solicitor comes at point (i). To address that, I think you want to have as much commonality between the reasons for your interest in the alternative career path and plausible reasons for interest in the work of commercial lawyers. I have recently written a post discussing this, I have quoted it bellow.



Besides this, I have also thought it may be useful to quote a great post and discussion with @Ram Sabaratnam about this question, which provides you with slightly different perspective:

Thank you @Andrei Radu for your detailed response - this is very helpful!

 

[Parsorandini]

When writing about 'why commercial law', my interest in law really was born when I was a child; my mother worked in a commercial law firm as a secretary and, as a single mum, she sometimes had to bring me into the office with her on weekends and I got to speak to the lawyers as a (approximately) 10 year old. Obviously this sounds really cliche and didn't exactly spark a deep commercial law interest in me - is it too cheesy to mention at the start of my answer (I wouldn't focus on it) even if it is 100% true?

 

[LawyerUpPal]

When writing about 'why commercial law', my interest in law really was born when I was a child; my mother worked in a commercial law firm as a secretary and, as a single mum, she sometimes had to bring me into the office with her on weekends and I got to speak to the lawyers as a (approximately) 10 year old. Obviously this sounds really cliche and didn't exactly spark a deep commercial law interest in me - is it too cheesy to mention at the start of my answer (I wouldn't focus on it) even if it is 100% true?

I wouldn't use this for this question in an application. The point of this question is to test whether you know what commercial law is and, more importantly, what a commercial lawyer does. This is, as you mention, a great opener for 'why law', but tangential for why commercial law which is more unique- a hybrid of business and law. I would dig deeper in your work/education experience. If you've done a vacation scheme, worked in any business plus your studies (if law) for eg. I have in the past, when asked at interview 'why law' given a wider answer. That is, I would say what attracted me to law generally especially if it is profound (like your example above) and then qualify my affinity for commercial law specifically.

 

[Jessica Booker]

When writing about 'why commercial law', my interest in law really was born when I was a child; my mother worked in a commercial law firm as a secretary and, as a single mum, she sometimes had to bring me into the office with her on weekends and I got to speak to the lawyers as a (approximately) 10 year old. Obviously this sounds really cliche and didn't exactly spark a deep commercial law interest in me - is it too cheesy to mention at the start of my answer (I wouldn't focus on it) even if it is 100% true?

If you do include this, it can just be a very brief reference to your initial interest stemming from your mum's work. I don't think it needs to be any more than that though, as you have to focus on why you are motivated to do the job now rather than why you would have been motivated back then.

 

[Parsorandini]

I wouldn't use this for this question in an application. The point of this question is to test whether you know what commercial law is and, more importantly, what a commercial lawyer does. This is, as you mention, a great opener for 'why law', but tangential for why commercial law which is more unique- a hybrid of business and law. I would dig deeper in your work/education experience. If you've done a vacation scheme, worked in any business plus your studies (if law) for eg. I have in the past, when asked at interview 'why law' given a wider answer. That is, I would say what attracted me to law generally especially if it is profound (like your example above) and then qualify my affinity for commercial law specifically.

That makes a lot of sense, thanks! Do you think it could work as an opener in a cover letter that the firm states should include 'why law' or should only be used as the answer for an interview question?

If you do include this, it can just be a very brief reference to your initial interest stemming from your mum's work. I don't think it needs to be any more than that though, as you have to focus on why you are motivated to do the job now rather than why you would have been motivated back then.

Thanks Jessica, that's exactly what I thought too. I would only ever use it as a neat beginning to my journey of becoming committed to the career.

 

[Jessica Booker]

That makes a lot of sense, thanks! Do you think it could work as an opener in a cover letter that the firm states should include 'why law' or should only be used as the answer for an interview question?

Thanks Jessica, that's exactly what I thought too. I would only ever use it as a neat beginning to my journey of becoming committed to the career.

It can work as an intro (I have seen it work) but I have also seen it not work very well at the same time. Sometimes it can come across as you are just following your parent into the profession rather than truly wanting the career - that will really depend on how you talk about your motivations for the career though.

 

[LawyerUpPal]

That makes a lot of sense, thanks! Do you think it could work as an opener in a cover letter that the firm states should include 'why law' or should only be used as the answer for an interview question?

Thanks Jessica, that's exactly what I thought too. I would only ever use it as a neat beginning to my journey of becoming committed to the career.

I would say use your intuition. The word count on most of these application questions/CLs is intentionally very low, so you have to immediately get to the point and only write relevant things. Always ask yourself, 'Does this convey to Grad Rec why, among other things, I'm sure I want to be a commercial lawyer and make me stand out from the hundreds of other applicants?'. I haven't personally applied to a single firm that asks that question, especially on the application; it's usually some variation of why commercial law, why you want to be a commercial lawyer, why you wish to work in the city, etc. I'm sure some firms might use why law on their app, in which case you can mention your very personal connection in the opening.

In a CL, if asked why law, you can, as Jessica said, mention it briefly (maybe in two sentences) and then move on to why commercial law. The only firm that asked that open question at interview was Stephenson Harwood. I took the risk and said something personal about my interest in law, generally, before adding why commercial law specifically. I could tell from her reactions that the interviewer loved it. Moreover, I got the VS, and in the feedback, I scored 19/20 points in that part of the interview.

 

[TCLAW]

Does anyone have an idea whether the following firms allow you to apply twice in 1 cycle I.e both Vac and TC

Gibson Dunn, Mayer Brown, Paul Hastings

I have looked everywhere however cannot find any information about this.

Other than Gibson Dunn stating in its FAQs “to secure a training signing contract you should first apply for our vacation scheme” - ‘first’ suggesting applying to a Tc subsequently is allowed, but this is not conclusive

Thanks