TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[Jessica Booker]

It's all been worth it...

White & Case WVS offer!! I am delighted and grateful to everyone on TCLA for their nuggets of wisdom and support!

Congratulations!

 

[grogsimmons]

I got a White & Case offer too! Unfortunately I couldn’t accept it because I accepted another offer during the long wait! Do you know whether it might be worth asking for a deferral to the summer?

 

[James Carrabino]

Does anybody have any advice for group based discussions at an AC? I am conscious of the fact that I may not always be the loudest in the room, and that my opinions may not get heard. Does anyone have any tips for this, and in general how to ensure that I stand out essentially. I have found it quite challenging in the past, partly due to the fact that we are all total strangers! Any advice for undertaking such exercises in a virtual setting as well would be much appreciated.

Being the loudest in the room is definitely not what they are looking for! I know that it can be really disconcerting when everyone in the group seems to be trying to outdo one another with the number of comments they make, but that will not reflect well on them. I'd start by saying that you don't need to worry about 'standing out' because that can risk undermining the teamwork skills which firms are looking for. If you stand out in an interview and other individual assessments, then I think that a thoughtful, personable and collaborative performance in the group exercise will be more than enough to help you succeed at the AC.

Three things I have noticed which don't go down too well include:

1. Trying to talk over everyone else, or stubbornly pushing your own ideas (it sounds as if this is not a problem you have).
2. Not making any of your own points and waiting for others to tell you what you are doing (even if you have a quiet demeanour, you should come up with your own unique points and make sure that when you do get the chance to speak, you are able to talk cogently about the issues that you believe are important to the task at hand).
3. Acting unnaturally as if you are simply 'performing teamwork' for your assessor, e.g. by always asking every other member of the group 'What do you all think?' after every single point you make (You should work collaboratively and give your teammates time to offer their views but ultimately the teamwork should flow organically from the task at hand and it is completely reasonable to volunteer more points about the topics where you feel more comfortable whilst deferring to other members of the group where they seem to know more).

If you are only worried about your quiet demeanour, then I would not stress too much as I have found that in ACs other candidates will tend to be quite gracious in giving each other time to speak, partly so that they do not come across like my first point. I have found that this can work even better in virtual environments because it is clearer when someone tries to unmute themselves to speak and everyone is more understanding when two people accidentally chime in at once due to the awkwardness of the virtual environment. Overall, if you make several well-reasoned points throughout then it does not particularly matter if someone else made more points. It is my belief that group exercises are more of a way to eliminate candidates than to select candidates - i.e. one can break their candidacy in a group exercise through strange behaviour more than they can make it through delivery of a huge number of points.

Just make sure that you act charitably towards all other candidates and listen closely to what they have to say so that you can make an honest decision about whether they have made the best point in the circumstances or whether you can add something. If you are worried about contributing due to a lack of commercial knowledge then I would recommend spending time developing your commercial awareness! I myself found the Finimize daily brief incredibly useful for that (you can enter your e-mail here to sign up): https://www.finimize.com/wp/signup/insider/.

It is also worth me including this advice by @Jacob Miller on how to excel in group negotiation exercises as it has a lot of excellent advice on successful teamwork in general: https://www.thecorporatelawacademy....ssed-negotiations-monday-article-series.3018/.

 

[syw]

Being the loudest in the room is definitely not what they are looking for! I know that it can be really disconcerting when everyone in the group seems to be trying to outdo one another with the number of comments they make, but that will not reflect well on them. I'd start by saying that you don't need to worry about 'standing out' because that can risk undermining the teamwork skills which firms are looking for. If you stand out in an interview and other individual assessments, then I think that a thoughtful, personable and collaborative performance in the group exercise will be more than enough to help you succeed at the AC.

Three things I have noticed which don't go down too well include:

1. Trying to talk over everyone else, or stubbornly pushing your own ideas (it sounds as if this is not a problem you have).
2. Not making any of your own points and waiting for others to tell you what you are doing (even if you have a quiet demeanour, you should come up with your own unique points and make sure that when you do get the chance to speak, you are able to talk cogently about the issues that you believe are important to the task at hand).
3. Acting unnaturally as if you are simply 'performing teamwork' for your assessor, e.g. by always asking every other member of the group 'What do you all think?' after every single point you make (You should work collaboratively and give your teammates time to offer their views but ultimately the teamwork should flow organically from the task at hand and it is completely reasonable to volunteer more points about the topics where you feel more comfortable whilst deferring to other members of the group where they seem to know more).

If you are only worried about your quiet demeanour, then I would not stress too much as I have found that in ACs other candidates will tend to be quite gracious in giving each other time to speak, partly so that they do not come across like my first point. I have found that this can work even better in virtual environments because it is clearer when someone tries to unmute themselves to speak and everyone is more understanding when two people accidentally chime in at once due to the awkwardness of the virtual environment. Overall, if you make several well-reasoned points throughout then it does not particularly matter if someone else made more points. It is my belief that group exercises are more of a way to eliminate candidates than to select candidates - i.e. one can break their candidacy in a group exercise through strange behaviour more than they can make it through delivery of a huge number of points.

Just make sure that you act charitably towards all other candidates and listen closely to what they have to say so that you can make an honest decision about whether they have made the best point in the circumstances or whether you can add something. If you are worried about contributing due to a lack of commercial knowledge then I would recommend spending time developing your commercial awareness! I myself found the Finimize daily brief incredibly useful for that (you can enter your e-mail here to sign up): https://www.finimize.com/wp/signup/insider/.

It is also worth me including this advice by @Jacob Miller on how to excel in group negotiation exercises as it has a lot of excellent advice on successful teamwork in general: https://www.thecorporatelawacademy....ssed-negotiations-monday-article-series.3018/.

This is brilliant. Thank you so much! Definitely made me less worried now!

 

[James Carrabino]

This is brilliant. Thank you so much! Definitely made me less worried now!

I am so glad that you found it helpful! Feel free to reach out on the forums with any other similar queries

 

[Jessica Booker]

I got a White & Case offer too! Unfortunately I couldn’t accept it because I accepted another offer during the long wait! Do you know whether it might be worth asking for a deferral to the summer?

No harm in asking whether you can be moved to another internship or a direct TC application process. The firm may say no, but there is absolutely no harm in asking.

 

[grogsimmons]

No harm in asking whether you can be moved to another internship or a direct TC application process. The firm may say no, but there is absolutely no harm in asking.

Amazing, Thanks! I’ll see what they say!

 

[LongSufferingLawGrad]

I've seen you hanging in there and you've set such a great example for the rest of TCLA by keeping your head up! The world of grad rec is really quite nebulous and it is never a rejection until they tell you it's a rejection Congrats again and good luck with the scheme and with your other apps!

Kind of you to say James, and your words are much appreciated!

 

[LongSufferingLawGrad]

Congratulations!

Thank you very much!

 

[Scandi]

Hey!

Has anyone heard back from Latham after their online test?

The winter vac scheme dates are starting to be quite near.

 

[jamesfp]

You are absolutely welcome @jv1999.

I again completely empathise with this. From memory, I did not get called by W&C until I received my training contract offer. So unless this has changed (or perhaps they want to reach out to you for something specific), they are likely to email you (as they did when I was applying!).

Looking back, personally I think that keeping my phone on loud and worrying about missing 'the call' only notched up my stress levels.

Hypothetically, if you were to miss them, you can always phone them back(!). It will not mean that your offer will get cancelled. From experience, I missed my training contract offer phonecall from HSF when they first tried me!

Hi George.

I got an offer from White & Case to participate in their WVS and I was wondering how was your experience with them and if you have any tips/advice, especially regarding the presentation for the training contract interview, the interview and how to secure the TC? Many thanks.

 

[5678]

DLA piper PFO

what does PFO mean please?

 

[Law2022]

Not a vac scheme or TC (yet)! But I’ve just been offered a job as a part-time Corporate Law paralegal at a big international company! Feeling very blessed, as finding part time work in law whilst studying is very difficult. All the tips on this forum helped me with my interviews so huge thank you to everyone! Feeling like this will really help me when it comes to securing a TC as well ❤️❤️

 

[djqb]

what does PFO mean please?

Please F*** Off

TCLA speak for a rejection from a law firm

 

[ELaw2021]

Does anyone have any advice for what I can do/resources to use to prepare for a vacation scheme? I have a WVS with Allen & Overy so any A&O specific or general advice would be so helpful!

 

[ellwilsen]

I have applied for an open day at a firm which is in almost two weeks but I’ve heard nothing. Is it appropriate to email grad rec to ask when decisions will be finalised (simply because I will need to take time off work if I am selected)?

 

[scruffy1]

Is anyone still waiting to hear back from Sidley post AC?

 

[em311]

Not a vac scheme or TC (yet)! But I’ve just been offered a job as a part-time Corporate Law paralegal at a big international company! Feeling very blessed, as finding part time work in law whilst studying is very difficult. All the tips on this forum helped me with my interviews so huge thank you to everyone! Feeling like this will really help me when it comes to securing a TC as well ❤️❤️

Amazing!! Congratulations!!

 

[J0123]

Anyone heard back from A&O post AC last week?

 

[Law2022]

Amazing!! Congratulations!!

Thank you my love 🤩