TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[Jessica Booker]

For anyone who has not done well in applications, this cycle don't worry here is why.

Yesterday I attended a networking event and on my way back some guy came up to me on the train and said you are Asil right and I was suspicious at first but then he said he knows me from Linkedin.

We started talking about applications and stuff and he is a future trainee solicitor at Slaughter and May and he said that when he had his Slaughter and May interview they told him that the application numbers this cycle has gone up so high that everyone from every sector is now getting into corporate law. He said don't be hard on yourself as you might have got a TC 2 years ago but this cycle the application demand has gone up so much that it is crazy. Also, he said that the application demand for consulting is a lot worse than corporate law.

I just want to ask a question do you lot think the application demand will still be this high next application or will it increase even more or will the number of applications go down a bit next application cycle.

In times of recessions, application numbers always go up. People just hedge their bets with more job applications. At the same time, the visa process in the UK has changed, meaning it is actually easier to higher international applicants than it ever was before. That has undoubtedly increased application numbers for firms too.

However, from what I hear, it isn't all moving in the same direction. Application numbers are dropping in places because of a mixture of the following reasons:

• Brexit - lower student numbers, lower numbers of EU people living/working in the UK
• Gen Z's career choices - fewer people want to work in large corporate powerhouses than previous generations. Other careers where you can have more of a positive impact socially or grow much quicker than you would do in a large international law firm have grown in popularity
• Impact of Covid - it has really shaken up people's priorities. And for many that means working in a different way or pursuing a different career.
• Less candidates where more are going on to do postgraduate study
• The UK being a less attractive place to live than it once was
• The SQE opening up alternative qualification opportunities

However, I am sure with the cost of living going through the roof and inflation about to explode, people may look to pursue the highest paid jobs where they seek more financial security and that will draw more people to law.

But applications to the legal sector have always been high and I don't think it has actually got much harder to pursue the career now than it would have been in 2007, 2008-9, 2012, 2019 or now.

The legal sector is also pretty buoyant at the moment - firms are hiring more people than they have been for the last two years, with many topping up their 2022 and 2023 hiring numbers while recruiting for 2024. We haven't really seen that since 2011-12. From the latest figures, there are more TCs now than there were in 2018/2019, and that won't include the SQE opportunities also opening up.

So I look at this slightly differently. To me, it is actually an excellent time to try and get into the profession. There are more opportunities than ever before. This feeling it is more competitive just comes from on average people are making more applications (but they can only accept one job at a time).

I don't think the application demand will ever fall (it never has). What is more likely to go up or down is the number of jobs available though. And at the moment, that is only on the way up in the legal sector.

 

[atrumregina1]

Hi guys,

Sorry to bother but it is my first time where I am asked to identify the firm's competitors.
While I can easily identify competitors when it comes to practice areas, I still have doubts when it comes to other aspects.

For example, if the firm follows a specific international and growth strategy how do you find its competitors?If I want to take into account the firm's small intake can I compare against firms with larger intakes?
Plus, should I mention why the points I made are relevant to me?

Help a fellow aspiring solicitor

I would think that the way to identify competitors would be: a) practice areas - find which areas the firm seems to have strength in OR aim to increase its strength in b) MC vs US (this is pretty obvious) c) client base or client target groups (for example who are their clients and which clients are they interested in acquiring - or maybe have acquired and which firm did that client use before d) trainee intakes/training contract seats - this is very secondary but their investment on talent can also mean that a law firm with similar recruitment strategy is a competitor

 

[James Carrabino]

Anyone have any experience with being offered a VS but being unable to do it due to working a full time job? Do the firm still let you have your training contract interview or are you cut completely?

I have heard of firms allowing candidates to move over to the direct TC route in such a scenario, but if the firm recruits solely through vacation scheme then this probably will not be possible.

 

[James Carrabino]

I agree to certain extent but that still passes over the scholarships and prizes question. Plus I have attended skadden open days and met with skadden associates and the diversity is pretty appalling. Part of that is the size but it’s definitely a reflection of the firms hiring practices being tailored to those who had a plan of action earlier on in life/had more recourses. You’re story is super impressive and honestly amazing in my eyes. But I really don’t think asking for scholarships or prizes is a great way of judging character or ability in my opinion. Nor is it a great way to diversify a firms hiring. Just my opinion though

Scholarships regularly provide funding to those who would not have access to many opportunities otherwise! There are many scholarships available for students from a range of different underserved communities and backgrounds and so I would have thought that this question would offer opportunities for these candidates to talk about that where they otherwise may have been unable to.

 

[James Carrabino]

Hiya guys, so this isn’t technically an application review request/question, but I’m wondering if TCLA reviews postgraduate/LPC application personal statements?

Or separately, are there any resources that anyone knows of that could help guide me in what to include?
I’m thinking of structuring it somewhat like a cover letter - why law, why the uni, why me. But geared towards an LPC. - Is this about right? Any help would be much appreciated.

On another note, went to a careers talk last night at the university of law (in person omg) and I went in with the idea of - “I’m doing the SQE, what’s the point of doing the LPC” etc , and it was a bit bizarre at how strongly they were suggesting still doing the LPC.
Someone asked “what about firms that are already transitioning out of the LPC, isn’t it redundant?” and the Dean said “even if you have to do SQE 2 in addition to the LPC- in his opinion this was a preferable route to take as so many law firms are confused about the technical aspects of the SQE and are more comfortable with the LPC”.
(I’m paraphrasing, but the gist was - I don’t see why you would go down the route of the experimental SQE, when the LPC remains an option for those of you who started pre 2021).

He did remain objective saying if anyone DID want to do the SQE he would stay later and discuss it, but everyone in the room was only interested in the LPC.

It was very interesting as I thought providers would be taking the opposite stance and be pushing the SQE, but it seemed their personal opinions were very much still stuck on the LPC.

*this is in no way meant to sway anyones opinions re SQE and LPC and I sincerely don’t know enough about what law firms want to comment !!!
just thought it was interesting
And a little bit of gossip lol

I think your structure for your cover letter sounds good! I would not have thought that your cover letter is read too vigorously as part of the LPC entry criteria after all, so I would not stress about it too much. Just write your honest motivations and interests and you should be fine

Re: LPC/SQE I have no idea - it's very interesting to hear they are still pushing the LPC despite most firms transitioning away from that!

 

[James Carrabino]

Hi guys,

Sorry to bother but it is my first time where I am asked to identify the firm's competitors.
While I can easily identify competitors when it comes to practice areas, I still have doubts when it comes to other aspects.

For example, if the firm follows a specific international and growth strategy how do you find its competitors?If I want to take into account the firm's small intake can I compare against firms with larger intakes?
Plus, should I mention why the points I made are relevant to me?

Help a fellow aspiring solicitor

I think practice areas and industry expertise are probably the best metric to use! I am not sure if intake size would be relevant to whether or not firms are competing and global growth strategy would be relevant if the firms are expanding into similar areas to one another, but there is probably a reason for expanding into those areas that comes back to the kind of work (i.e. practice area/industry) they would be doing in such locations.

Ultimately the firm's 'competitors' are other firms which will be competing for the same clients, which tends to come down to practice area and industry strengths. I hope that helps!

 

[James Carrabino]

@Jessica Booker Is it feasible that a firm will consider that a candidate has other vacation schemes in their decision making process. For example, when assessing video interview candidates, if GR sees that a strong candidate has 2 other vac schemes on there LinkedIn profile, could that work against the candidate in the sense that it suggests they would be less likely to sign a TC at the firm (should they be progressed)?

I can't think that a firm would consider other vacation schemes to be a negative thing in any scenario - it validates their choice of candidate!

 

[syw]

Has anyone heard from Shoosmiths?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hiya guys, so this isn’t technically an application review request/question, but I’m wondering if TCLA reviews postgraduate/LPC application personal statements?

Or separately, are there any resources that anyone knows of that could help guide me in what to include?
I’m thinking of structuring it somewhat like a cover letter - why law, why the uni, why me. But geared towards an LPC. - Is this about right? Any help would be much appreciated.

On another note, went to a careers talk last night at the university of law (in person omg) and I went in with the idea of - “I’m doing the SQE, what’s the point of doing the LPC” etc , and it was a bit bizarre at how strongly they were suggesting still doing the LPC.
Someone asked “what about firms that are already transitioning out of the LPC, isn’t it redundant?” and the Dean said “even if you have to do SQE 2 in addition to the LPC- in his opinion this was a preferable route to take as so many law firms are confused about the technical aspects of the SQE and are more comfortable with the LPC”.
(I’m paraphrasing, but the gist was - I don’t see why you would go down the route of the experimental SQE, when the LPC remains an option for those of you who started pre 2021).

He did remain objective saying if anyone DID want to do the SQE he would stay later and discuss it, but everyone in the room was only interested in the LPC.

It was very interesting as I thought providers would be taking the opposite stance and be pushing the SQE, but it seemed their personal opinions were very much still stuck on the LPC.

*this is in no way meant to sway anyones opinions re SQE and LPC and I sincerely don’t know enough about what law firms want to comment !!!
just thought it was interesting
And a little bit of gossip lol

I’d be slightly cautious of this comments from UoL reps. They have a particular agenda, and one of those is protecting their revenue streams.

They do that if they still push the LPC because it is a regulated market with fewer competitors. The SQE is unregulated and will allow many more provider into the market, which in turn well dent their revenue streams.

I feel this is very disingenuous comments from them, as it’s basically suggesting you should do the LPC and an SQE2 prep course. The only reason you would need to do this is if you have done the LPC already and the firm you want to do your TC with is making you qualify via the SQE. There is no other logic to do both, unless you want to pay someone like the UoL for two courses.

 

[epwz98]

I have a question of slightly different nature - I recently received an offer for a place on a vac scheme. Grad rec said they would send me the documents the next day, but they have not.

Does anyone have any advice on this? Would it be better to wait a little longer, or send them an email? @Jessica Booker would you have any insights into this as well?

 

[corinium]

Has anyone heard from Shoosmiths?

Not yet (London office). Hopefully soon though, from searching on the forum it was the end of March last year that they got back to applicants.

 

[sami.rehman]

To all the vac schemers who aren't based in London, how are you guys sorting out accommodation for the period of your schemes? AirBnB? Uni private hall accommodation? Subletting? What is the most financially viable option?

 

[rightletsdothis]

Scholarships regularly provide funding to those who would not have access to many opportunities otherwise! There are many scholarships available for students from a range of different underserved communities and backgrounds and so I would have thought that this question would offer opportunities for these candidates to talk about that where they otherwise may have been unable to.

I agree, that is very true. My counter however would be that only a tiny minority of students from any background receive scholarships. So if you want to provide opportunities for those from disadvantaged communities to apply, I think you’re better off going through groups such as RARE, Bright Network or Aspiring Solicitors, who offer much more opportunities and spots than scholarships often do. Also, I can speak from experience that being disadvantaged often means your late to the game. If you don’t have a figure in your life telling you to apply for a scholarship or get those grades, or you don’t have the time if you’ve been balancing commitments alongside your studies, then you won’t. I was 23 by the time I realised I wanted to go into law. Well passed the age of applying to university scholarships sadly. But groups like RARE and BN have been amazing for me, and the firms engaging with those groups are the only ones who have given me a chance…

 

[M777]

To all the vac schemers who aren't based in London, how are you guys sorting out accommodation for the period of your schemes? AirBnB? Uni private hall accommodation? Subletting? What is the most financially viable option?

I went for airbnb for my upcoming summer scheme. I'd advise booking early, ie as soon as you get the offer - I managed to bag an airbnb near london bridge for cheap. I got lucky because I received my summer VS offer in January, meaning airbnbs were there for the taking.

However you should be able to find viable airbnbs nearly anywhere in London, even if you need to commute to your firm from an outer district.

Have also heard of people taking uni accommodation for schemes.

 

[rightletsdothis]

To all the vac schemers who aren't based in London, how are you guys sorting out accommodation for the period of your schemes? AirBnB? Uni private hall accommodation? Subletting? What is the most financially viable option?

I’d also check if the firm offers to pay for your accommodation! I know quite a few firms down here in London pay for both travel and if you live far away enough, hotels or apartments etc !

 

[Jessica Booker]

I have a question of slightly different nature - I recently received an offer for a place on a vac scheme. Grad rec said they would send me the documents the next day, but they have not.

Does anyone have any advice on this? Would it be better to wait a little longer, or send them an email? @Jessica Booker would you have any insights into this as well?

I’d wait until a week has passed and then email them asking when you will receive the offer documents.

All it takes is for someone to be off sick and a typically 1 day turnaround turns into a longer period of time.

 

[Jessica Booker]

To all the vac schemers who aren't based in London, how are you guys sorting out accommodation for the period of your schemes? AirBnB? Uni private hall accommodation? Subletting? What is the most financially viable option?

This previous post will give you some info:

TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

I just finished an AC with one firm yesterday for a summer vac scheme but the dates coincide with TWO of my other summer vac schemes. Although I really liked the firm from yesterday (over the other one) and I felt it went quite well, I believe that the experience I'll gain over the other two...

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

 

[epwz98]

I’d wait until a week has passed and then email them asking when you will receive the offer documents.

All it takes is for someone to be off sick and a typically 1 day turnaround turns into a longer period of time.

Great, very helpful, thank you so much!

 

[Palmerme1]

Winckworth Sherwood first round interview!

 

[Cantab_95]

Winckworth Sherwood interview invite!
If anyone has any advice or experience please let me know

I have an interview today so will let you know!