TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[TCApp2021]

Just received an offer from Baker McKenzie for their Summer VS!

They said I performed the best they've seen this cycle and received the highest marks for the group exercise, partner case study, and associate interview out of every AC they've conducted this year!!!!!!!!!!!! When finishing the AC, I thought I wouldn't get it because I didn't finish the document checking exercise within the allocated time. I guess this goes to show that even if you mess up in one part, you can still smash the others!

Having been rejected from each of my 45+ applications over the past three cycles, securing three schemes at top city law firms this cycle really validated Rocky's "it ain't about how hard you can hit" quote for me. Honestly over the moon and can't thank everyone on this forum who helped me enough. Here to chat if anyone needs any application, interview, or AC tips!

Much love, TCLA, hope to update you with a TC offer at some point soon!

Well done! Surely they’d consider offering you the TC now (if they have a direct TC places).. if you didn’t want to do the VS?

 

[futuretraineesolicitor]

Hello, everyone. For Ashurst's "Please tell us about a recent news article that interests you and how this relates to Ashurst? (300 words max) *",
1: how many words should I dedicate to the story and why I found it interesting and how many to how it relates to Ashurst?

2: How should I personalise the answer and make it specific to Ashurst? My answer is on a PE deal. At best I can say that Ashurst can pitch its strong PE practice to get more of these deals in future.

3: Or is that ^ not asked and the question is just looking for how it relates to Ashurst (and they are going to have no issues if it is equally relevant to other firms - basically if we remove Ashurst and put another firm's name, are they gonna be okay with it since they've only asked for how it relates to Ashurst?)

Thanks a ton.

 

[CF12345]

anyone else waiting 3 weeks+ post ac for hsf... just about lost all hope at this point/driving myself mad trying to figure out which order they are sending rejections ahaha

have you contacted them?

 

[avaelle42]

have you contacted them?

yup last week and they said they'd try get back in 2 weeks but still anxiety inducing hahaha

 

[CF12345]

yup last week and they said they'd try get back in 2 weeks but still anxiety inducing hahaha

gosh ive only been waiting a week and thought that was bad!!! hopefully we will find out soon )

 

[AvniD]

Just received an offer from Baker McKenzie for their Summer VS!

They said I performed the best they've seen this cycle and received the highest marks for the group exercise, partner case study, and associate interview out of every AC they've conducted this year!!!!!!!!!!!! When finishing the AC, I thought I wouldn't get it because I didn't finish the document checking exercise within the allocated time. I guess this goes to show that even if you mess up in one part, you can still smash the others!

Having been rejected from each of my 45+ applications over the past three cycles, securing three schemes at top city law firms this cycle really validated Rocky's "it ain't about how hard you can hit" quote for me. Honestly over the moon and can't thank everyone on this forum who helped me enough. Here to chat if anyone needs any application, interview, or AC tips!

Much love, TCLA, hope to update you with a TC offer at some point soon!

@Zubin so happy for you! This is such stellar feedback and I hope you take some time to celebrate it.

Completely agree with what you said about messing up one part of the AC and still smashing others- the whole point of an AC is to show the firm your ability to make mistakes, recover from them and still approach challenges enthusiastically and it seems like you did that and much more from the feedback you've received.

So very well done and all the very best for your VS- let us know how it goes!

 

[SCN]

I just got an email from Dentons because all spaces have been filled for vac schemes but they've offered an AC for direct TC... Anyone else had this experience before?

 

[Jessica Booker]

I would disagree that it is elitist - I think its about how you position yourself. I am the guy who could barely find time outside of school or uni because they had to work all week but I answer the hobbies questions by being very honest and saying I am limited to time because of the fact I worked 30+ hours a week alongside a full time LLB so I don't partake in sports or societies. However I would show how my part time job aligned to my interest in tech as I worked for a tech company and how it was quite a social job as I was in sales and working in London meant I spent my days talking to people of all different backgrounds and hearing some fantastic stories, I say how I would use the time commuting to read the news and listen to podcasts as I like to know what's going on in the world. IMO when law firms ask for your hobbies they aren't so bothered by what they are they are more thing to find out what motivates you.

Would really echo this point.

@DTS - my view for the awards/prizes/scholarships questions is that they don't have to be academic. They could be something like the Aspiring Solicitors Commercial Awareness competition, or a photography/art prize, even an "employee of the month" award. They basically are looking for you to have excelled or performed to a high standard in something, but it really doesn't depend what that is. I'd encourage everyone to look at it as broadly as possible at this question.

For me, that would include having the highest seasonal sale record for a travel company despite being the youngest person there and the person who had been there for the least amount of time. I would also include getting the highest A-level grade in my school of 250+ students for General Studies despite never attending a class (because I was working part-time). I could also include my TCLA team award for February 2022.

 

[Zubin]

Well done! Surely they’d consider offering you the TC now (if they have a direct TC places).. if you didn’t want to do the VS?

Thank you! Is this a thing? I was initially hoping to go back home to HK this summer because travel restrictions are lifting, and I haven't seen my family in nearly three years... Do you think BM would do that for me given the results?

@Jessica Booker , perhaps you could weigh in on this?

 

[Zubin]

@Zubin so happy for you! This is such stellar feedback and I hope you take some time to celebrate it.

Completely agree with what you said about messing up one part of the AC and still smashing others- the whole point of an AC is to show the firm your ability to make mistakes, recover from them and still approach challenges enthusiastically and it seems like you did that and much more from the feedback you've received.

So very well done and all the very best for your VS- let us know how it goes!

Thank you so much! Really happy and the celebratory pints have indeed already began...

Completely agree re: bouncing back from mistakes. I had a mental conversation with myself right after not finishing the doc-checking exercise, which was the first task. Hurt my confidence at first, but I realised: "come on dude, you've only got one shot at this... all in or nothing!"

Thanks again for your good wishes and will definitely update the forum on my experience at BM.

 

[rightletsdothis]

Would really echo this point.

@DTS - my view for the awards/prizes/scholarships questions is that they don't have to be academic. They could be something like the Aspiring Solicitors Commercial Awareness competition, or a photography/art prize, even an "employee of the month" award. They basically are looking for you to have excelled or performed to a high standard in something, but it really doesn't depend what that is. I'd encourage everyone to look at it as broadly as possible at this question.

For me, that would include having the highest seasonal sale record for a travel company despite being the youngest person there and the person who had been there for the least amount of time. I would also include getting the highest A-level grade in my school of 250+ students for General Studies despite never attending a class (because I was working part-time). I could also include my TCLA team award for February 2022.

I understand this completely, and I understand it doesn't have to be strictly academic etc. I just think truthtly a lot of people (including me honestly) haven't really been the top of the class for anything. I got expelled in secondary school, had no idea what career path I wanted to pursue etc. I never was the top of the class, I didn’t have much recourses growing up nor any real guidance from parents or senior figures. I just happened to one day during my history degree realise law was pretty similar and that was something I wanted to pursue… so I personally have no real academic awards or non academic awards. No scholarships nor work experience. I didn’t really hold any positions of responsibility because I was never offered the chance to do so. The two vacation schemes and the eventual training contract I received were from firms asking me motivational questions which I feel are more inclusive to people who don’t have much to show from their past because they didn’t have a plan until 1 year ago haha. That’s why I didn’t appreciate the skadden questions personally.

but I completely get the point you are making and totally respect the truth within it! So thank you for sharing your opinion and honestly opening my mind more about it!

 

[rightletsdothis]

Yes I would agree that the entire hiring process is better suited to those that knew what they wanted earlier, I feel incredibly behind in AC's for VS's in particular being in my late 20s when so many of the other candidates are second year law students at 19/20. I didn't even start university until I was older than some people I meet in ACs. I also think although you don't need a RG/Oxbridge degree you do receive much better access to firms and careers advice at those universities so you have to do less work yourself to find the information out.

There is only so much a law firm can do to diversify hiring, a lot of people self-select out of the process as they don't think they are the right fit so it becomes somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy that only oxbridge etc are hired by certain firms. I think perhaps more needs to be done to recognise the achievements of people in context, and contextual recruitment is going some way towards that.

I personally like when a law firm asks for scholarships/prizes, but that is somewhat selfish on my part as I have been awarded two competitive scholarships so have something to put in that box.

This is a great point honestly. Never thought about it like this 🤝

 

[LawfulRust00]

I get confused by the interaction between practice areas and sector specialisms and wouldn’t mind some clarification on how the two correspond in a firm in practice.

Example:

A client with a data protection matter at a hotel asks for advice from a law firm. This law firm has a hotel and leisure sector. They also, naturally, have a data protection and privacy practice.

Are both teams engaged? If both teams are engaged, how does this overlap work in practice? Or are there not even separate teams and this is just how it is laid out on the firm’s website?

I would be very grateful for an explanation on this. Thank you

 

[AvniD]

When I applied it was 2 questions. "any awards or scholarships" and "Your hobbies" - I felt like it was slightly elitist in that obviously the guy from Oxbridge with 2 scholarships and who participates in 15 societies would beat out the guy who can barely find any time out of school or uni because they have to work all week lol. It didn't feel like you could really tell the firm about who you truly are and your passion/skills clearly enough in my opinion.

I would disagree that it is elitist - I think its about how you position yourself. I am the guy who could barely find time outside of school or uni because they had to work all week but I answer the hobbies questions by being very honest and saying I am limited to time because of the fact I worked 30+ hours a week alongside a full time LLB so I don't partake in sports or societies. However I would show how my part time job aligned to my interest in tech as I worked for a tech company and how it was quite a social job as I was in sales and working in London meant I spent my days talking to people of all different backgrounds and hearing some fantastic stories, I say how I would use the time commuting to read the news and listen to podcasts as I like to know what's going on in the world. IMO when law firms ask for your hobbies they aren't so bothered by what they are they are more thing to find out what motivates you.

I agree to certain extent but that still passes over the scholarships and prizes question. Plus I have attended skadden open days and met with skadden associates and the diversity is pretty appalling. Part of that is the size but it’s definitely a reflection of the firms hiring practices being tailored to those who had a plan of action earlier on in life/had more recourses. You’re story is super impressive and honestly amazing in my eyes. But I really don’t think asking for scholarships or prizes is a great way of judging character or ability in my opinion. Nor is it a great way to diversify a firms hiring. Just my opinion though

Yes I would agree that the entire hiring process is better suited to those that knew what they wanted earlier, I feel incredibly behind in AC's for VS's in particular being in my late 20s when so many of the other candidates are second year law students at 19/20. I didn't even start university until I was older than some people I meet in ACs. I also think although you don't need a RG/Oxbridge degree you do receive much better access to firms and careers advice at those universities so you have to do less work yourself to find the information out.

There is only so much a law firm can do to diversify hiring, a lot of people self-select out of the process as they don't think they are the right fit so it becomes somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy that only oxbridge etc are hired by certain firms. I think perhaps more needs to be done to recognise the achievements of people in context, and contextual recruitment is going some way towards that.

I personally like when a law firm asks for scholarships/prizes, but that is somewhat selfish on my part as I have been awarded two competitive scholarships so have something to put in that box.

@DTS and @Abii just wanted to shout you out for having a mature, respectful discussion on this topic on the forum. Discussions like this help set the tone for the community and I am thankful to you both for your thoughtfulness in the manner of your posting.

I also wanted to chip in with some of my thoughts and perspective on this. I was always the person both in school and at university who focused a lot of their energy on extracurricular activities, volunteering and part-time jobs. Although my academic performance was a priority, my extracurriculars captured my interests more pointedly and I was more passionate about them as a result.

Whenever I got asked about my extracurriculars on an application form, I felt like it was validating my efforts and interests outside of academics and it felt good to have people care about it more than/as much as my academics. Conversely, I had some friends who didn't have many extracurriculars or any scholarships/prizes at all and they still did pretty well in getting hired by the same kind of firms that I was applying to.

I think what worked for them was a combination of things that @Abii has already mentioned, including not self-selecting themselves from the application process and, importantly, presenting the seemingly small ways they engaged themselves in a manner that was relevant to the firm's hiring requirements. So for example, if they knitted or watched some sport as a hobby, they brought out the details of what they put into it and go out of it to showcase that their thought process matched the competencies that the firm was looking for in their future trainees.

It took a lot of brainstorming, effort and a lot of creativity to craft their answers in this manner but they succeeded in the application process in the end just as well/better than I did, which means that these kind of questions don't necessarily have to leave out people who have a few/no scholarships, prizes or extracurriculars from applying and succeeding in the application process.

I can see your point about maybe some firms designing these questions to simply sift those who don't have many extracurriculars out from those who do, and I genuinely hope that my experience and perspective can help applicants who have few/no extracurriculars figure out their approach to these questions and draft strong, impactful answers nonetheless.

Wishing you both well 😇

 

[AvniD]

I get confused by the interaction between practice areas and sector specialisms and wouldn’t mind some clarification on how the two correspond in a firm in practice.

Example:

A client with a data protection matter at a hotel asks for advice from a law firm. This law firm has a hotel and leisure sector. They also, naturally, have a data protection and privacy practice.

Are both teams engaged? If both teams are engaged, how does this overlap work in practice? Or are there not even separate teams and this is just how it is laid out on the firm’s website?

I would be very grateful for an explanation on this. Thank you

I was in the same boat as you when I first started making applications and the thing that helped was attending webinars and just listening to lawyers talk about their work and taking down notes on the technicalities of it- maybe you'd find that useful too.

Break down of my attempt to answer your question-

• Practice areas- the areas of legal practice that the firm specialises in. These practice areas cut across sectors so for example, the employment team can work on employment-related matters across a range of sectors like hospitality, construction, shipping etc.
  
  
• Sectors- these are certain industries, economic sectors that the firm has expertise in. For example, if the firm's lawyers have worked on many hospitality deals and matters, then they can say that they have expertise in the hospitality sector or that this is one of the firm's sectors.

Lawyers at firms are generally divided on the basis of practice areas and not sectors, although they will be noted for a particular sector expertise. So the way this would play out in the example you've chosen is that the firm would mobilise their lawyers working in their data protection and privacy practice areas and probably emphasise any particular lawyers with a sector expertise in the hotel and leisure sector.

It's not always black and white and the divisions blur more at some firms than others but this is generally how it looks like across most of them. I hope this helps?

 

[LawfulRust00]

I was in the same boat as you when I first started making applications and the thing that helped was attending webinars and just listening to lawyers talk about their work and taking down notes on the technicalities of it- maybe you'd find that useful too.

Break down of my attempt to answer your question-

• Practice areas- the areas of legal practice that the firm specialises in. These practice areas cut across sectors so for example, the employment team can work on employment-related matters across a range of sectors like hospitality, construction, shipping etc.
  
  
• Sectors- these are certain industries, economic sectors that the firm has expertise in. For example, if the firm's lawyers have worked on many hospitality deals and matters, then they can say that they have expertise in the hospitality sector or that this is one of the firm's sectors.

Lawyers at firms are generally divided on the basis of practice areas and not sectors, although they will be noted for a particular sector expertise. So the way this would play out in the example you've chosen is that the firm would mobilise their lawyers working in their data protection and privacy practice areas and probably emphasise any particular lawyers with a sector expertise in the hotel and leisure sector.

It's not always black and white and the divisions blur more at some firms than others but this is generally how it looks like across most of them. I hope this helps?

This is so, so useful. Thank you so much - exactly the explanation and breakdown I was looking for. Much appreciated

 

[Jessica Booker]

Just received an offer from Baker McKenzie for their Summer VS!

They said I performed the best they've seen this cycle and received the highest marks for the group exercise, partner case study, and associate interview out of every AC they've conducted this year!!!!!!!!!!!! When finishing the AC, I thought I wouldn't get it because I didn't finish the document checking exercise within the allocated time. I guess this goes to show that even if you mess up in one part, you can still smash the others!

Having been rejected from each of my 45+ applications over the past three cycles, securing three schemes at top city law firms this cycle really validated Rocky's "it ain't about how hard you can hit" quote for me. Honestly over the moon and can't thank everyone on this forum who helped me enough. Here to chat if anyone needs any application, interview, or AC tips!

Much love, TCLA, hope to update you with a TC offer at some point soon!

This is amazing news - congratulations!

What I must stress is that not finishing an exercise isn't necessarily messing it up. It can be quite common not to complete the exercise - they are typically designed so a good proportion of people won't finish them. They will be much more interested in the exercise's content rather than whether you finished it or not!

 

[A92167!8]

I just got an email from Dentons because all spaces have been filled for vac schemes but they've offered an AC for direct TC... Anyone else had this experience before?

I had my AC today. Has anyone heard back post AC for London?

 

[Zubin]

This is amazing news - congratulations!

What I must stress is that not finishing an exercise isn't necessarily messing it up. It can be quite common not to complete the exercise - they are typically designed so a good proportion of people won't finish them. They will be much more interested in the exercise's content rather than whether you finished it or not!

Thank you, Jessica! I'm really happy with the result and completely agree regarding quality over quantity.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you! Is this a thing? I was initially hoping to go back home to HK this summer because travel restrictions are lifting, and I haven't seen my family in nearly three years... Do you think BM would do that for me given the results?

@Jessica Booker , perhaps you could weigh in on this?

I can't say this is the case for BM or not, but different standards might be applied for VS and TC recruitment. For instance, having the best performance in a VS process may not equate to it being the best for TC or they could even be looking at different criteria for a TC.

I don't think there is any harm in asking what the chances are of moving you to a direct TC process, but I wouldn't necessarily expect for this to result in a direct offer. They may need to reinterview you to understand your motivations are for a TC rather than a VS.

My only final thought it that they may question why you applied for a VS if your plans were to go home. Could you ask them to attend the earliest scheme so you still have the chance to return home later in the summer?