TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[Jessica Booker]

Just had my last VI of this cycle. I fully understand the benefits of video interviewing from the recruiter's point of view but I just do not think it is fair or possible to assess whether someone is a suitable candidate based off SIX minutes of them talking into a camera. One faulty answer and you are out of the running, whether you are good enough or not. Interested to know other people's thoughts / experiences of VI?

I look at it slightly differently as it definitely gives more people a chance to shine than it would without

I was very anti video interviews back in 2013/14 when they first started to come in. However, I started a project for a law firm and they needed to improve the diversity of their intakes, and the massive problem they had was they were making a really strict cut at the application stage, of about 1500 applications down to 60-70 candidates to see at first round interview stage.

That meant they had to make really harsh cuts based on things like a couple of percentage point differences in law module results or tiny writing errors. It was sometimes the case that people had excellent applications but didn’t come across well in person too (eg in a full 60 minute interview) and the partners dedicating their time to interviewing wanted a higher hit rate at interview).

Using video interviews the firm got about 200 people to have the chance to shine at interview stage, so over three times the amount. The hit rate at the first round interview increased dramatically and the intake of trainees diversified both in terms of ethnicity, social background, university and degree subject.

I have seen a lot of success since then.

I understand the awkwardness of them, but as far as I am concerned they are one of the best tools out there to select people down in the initial stages. My only concern is when AI is used to assess them (I am not sure any of the law firms do this - I am pretty sure they all still use people to review the videos) as some of the methods to design the AI and also the data sets for it are particularly questionable in my opinion.

 

[S87]

I look at it slightly differently as it definitely gives more people a chance to shine than it would without

I was very anti video interviews back in 2013/14 when they first started to come in. However, I started a project for a law firm and they needed to improve the diversity of their intakes, and the massive problem they had was they were making a really strict cut at the application stage, of about 1500 applications down to 60-70 candidates to see at first round interview stage.

That meant they had to make really harsh cuts based on things like a couple of percentage point differences in law module results or tiny writing errors. It was sometimes the case that people had excellent applications but didn’t come across well in person too (eg in a full 60 minute interview) and the partners dedicating their time to interviewing wanted a higher hit rate at interview).

Using video interviews the firm got about 200 people to have the chance to shine at interview stage, so over three times the amount. The hit rate at the first round interview increased dramatically and the intake of trainees diversified both in terms of ethnicity, social background, university and degree subject.

I have seen a lot of success since then.

I understand the awkwardness of them, but as far as I am concerned they are one of the best tools out there to select people down in the initial stages. My only concern is when AI is used to assess them (I am not sure any of the law firms do this - I am pretty sure they all still use people to review the videos) as some of the methods to design the AI and also the data sets for it are particularly questionable in my opinion.

Wow that’s a good insight!

 

[rightletsdothis]

I look at it slightly differently as it definitely gives more people a chance to shine than it would without

I was very anti video interviews back in 2013/14 when they first started to come in. However, I started a project for a law firm and they needed to improve the diversity of their intakes, and the massive problem they had was they were making a really strict cut at the application stage, of about 1500 applications down to 60-70 candidates to see at first round interview stage.

That meant they had to make really harsh cuts based on things like a couple of percentage point differences in law module results or tiny writing errors. It was sometimes the case that people had excellent applications but didn’t come across well in person too (eg in a full 60 minute interview) and the partners dedicating their time to interviewing wanted a higher hit rate at interview).

Using video interviews the firm got about 200 people to have the chance to shine at interview stage, so over three times the amount. The hit rate at the first round interview increased dramatically and the intake of trainees diversified both in terms of ethnicity, social background, university and degree subject.

I have seen a lot of success since then.

I understand the awkwardness of them, but as far as I am concerned they are one of the best tools out there to select people down in the initial stages. My only concern is when AI is used to assess them (I am not sure any of the law firms do this - I am pretty sure they all still use people to review the videos) as some of the methods to design the AI and also the data sets for it are particularly questionable in my opinion.

I agree with this 1000%. Clyde & Co was the first place to give me a shot and it was definitely due to the fact they removed written applications, utilised a blind CV and only check VI prior to AC. The firm has a crazy high conversion rate from AC to VC and VC to TC these days and i believe a lot of that is because they manage to find better, more diverse talent.

 

[TCApp2021]

Can anyone share any articles/sources covering 'law firms as a business' please - looking for ones that cover key opps/threats for law firms and explains their business models?

 

[George Maxwell]

Can anyone share any articles/sources covering 'law firms as a business' please - looking for ones that cover key opps/threats for law firms and explains their business models?

Hey @TCApp2021,

After a quick google I found these articles. Is this the sort of thing that you were looking for?

• https://www.lawcareers.net/Explore/Oracle/22032022-The-law-firm-as-a-business
• https://flex.legal/blog/how-do-law-firms-work-as-a-business
• https://www.pinsentmasons.com/careers/graduate/blog/law-as-a-business-how-do-law-firms-make-money
• https://www.forbes.com/sites/markco...firms-sustainable-its-the-model-that-matters/

 

[Ella98]

Does everyone get the offer of a 15 min feedback call post-app with Trowers?

I thought it was just the people who reached the AC stage but may be wrong

 

[YUKI1201]

By the time W&C informs me the SVS AC outcome I'll probs be in my late 60s

 

[dcriangrcy]

Does anyone know how long BCLP’s first round interview is?

hii do you mind sharing more about your interview experience? like what they asked and stuff, thank you!!

 

[thirdtimelucky]

hii do you mind sharing more about your interview experience? like what they asked and stuff, thank you!!

Yeah course. It was 18 mins long, some firm related questions basically (why law, how do firms run as businesses), some situational questions like how do you make relationships with people, and then the rest were competencies. It was definitely one of the harder first round interviews I did but I think they want you to think on your feet so they don’t ask the genetic questions you’d expect. I’d say just know your main competencies like how you work in a team, how do you interact with people etc and you’ll be fine!

 

[TCApp2021]

Hey @TCApp2021,

After a quick google I found these articles. Is this the sort of thing that you were looking for?

• https://www.lawcareers.net/Explore/Oracle/22032022-The-law-firm-as-a-business
• https://flex.legal/blog/how-do-law-firms-work-as-a-business
• https://www.pinsentmasons.com/careers/graduate/blog/law-as-a-business-how-do-law-firms-make-money
• https://www.forbes.com/sites/markco...firms-sustainable-its-the-model-that-matters/

Thanks - looked at these yesterday and they were useful!

 

[corinium]

Not sure if this is the best place for this, but how are social events on vac schemes assessed? I may not be able to make one during my scheme due to a family commitment and I am so worried that it might be frowned upon, even though it is outside of the working hours. Any advice?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Not sure if this is the best place for this, but how are social events on vac schemes assessed? I may not be able to make one during my scheme due to a family commitment and I am so worried that it might be frowned upon, even though it is outside of the working hours. Any advice?

Social events are not assessed, and it’s not an issue if you cannot make one. Just let the graduate recruitment team or whoever is planning the event know that you cannot attend.

It really won’t be an issue at all.

 

[EH96]

Hi, I received the Mishcon VI last Tuesday lunchtime (12 April). It says I have 7 days to submit from the date of this email.
Does anyone know if that means end of day today, or would I be able to do it tomorrow morning? Thanks!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi, I received the Mishcon VI last Tuesday lunchtime (12 April). It says I have 7 days to submit from the date of this email.
Does anyone know if that means end of day today, or would I be able to do it tomorrow morning? Thanks!

I would expect it to be tomorrow rather than today, but I can't guarantee it.

 

[rightletsdothis]

Not sure if this is the best place for this, but how are social events on vac schemes assessed? I may not be able to make one during my scheme due to a family commitment and I am so worried that it might be frowned upon, even though it is outside of the working hours. Any advice?

As long as you let them know no one will care honestly haha. They usually say that before VS start in their welcome letters. I think just never turning up and going radio silent might look a little odd but just letting GR know will look great as it shows you communicate and also have a life outside of work! ☺️

 

[legalgemma]

I never liked video interviews either, although I did come to realise that recruiters are more charitable than you think when watching them! This is to say that everyone finds them awful and it is easy to make mistakes, so it is definitely not the case that you are out of the running with one faulty answer! In fact, there were video interviews where I repeated myself and stuttered through multiple questions and then passed, whilst there were others where I thought I had aced them and did not pass.

I have actually written a post about my experience with what worked and what did not work with video interviews here. I do think that a good video interview is about showing who you are as a person and that your motivations are compelling, and giving a glimpse of your potential in the process. This is far more important than being extremely slick and confident in front of the camera! I hope this is helpful

Thank you for this - I will check out your post! It is interesting to see different perspectives on it and I definitely wrote my initial post in a moment of frustration. I do appreciate that it gives people an opportunity to stand out other than just on paper, and that the recruiters will know exactly what they are looking for and oftentimes be able to see through the nerves. Really helpful and I will be sure to take this mindset into any in the future!

 

[legalgemma]

I look at it slightly differently as it definitely gives more people a chance to shine than it would without

I was very anti video interviews back in 2013/14 when they first started to come in. However, I started a project for a law firm and they needed to improve the diversity of their intakes, and the massive problem they had was they were making a really strict cut at the application stage, of about 1500 applications down to 60-70 candidates to see at first round interview stage.

That meant they had to make really harsh cuts based on things like a couple of percentage point differences in law module results or tiny writing errors. It was sometimes the case that people had excellent applications but didn’t come across well in person too (eg in a full 60 minute interview) and the partners dedicating their time to interviewing wanted a higher hit rate at interview).

Using video interviews the firm got about 200 people to have the chance to shine at interview stage, so over three times the amount. The hit rate at the first round interview increased dramatically and the intake of trainees diversified both in terms of ethnicity, social background, university and degree subject.

I have seen a lot of success since then.

I understand the awkwardness of them, but as far as I am concerned they are one of the best tools out there to select people down in the initial stages. My only concern is when AI is used to assess them (I am not sure any of the law firms do this - I am pretty sure they all still use people to review the videos) as some of the methods to design the AI and also the data sets for it are particularly questionable in my opinion.

It is really interesting to see this from a recruitment perspective, I hadn't really appreciated or considered how much it aids in not having to cut people based on slight grade discrepancies etc! I can see that it does give the firm a chance to view and get to know more candidates rather than have to cut so many people down based on application only. I will try and see them as a positive opportunity to show myself off in the best light in the future - thank you for your response!

 

[OO28]

Congratulations - I guess they made up for the wait on the VI

Haha that’s true, thanks!

 

[AvniD]

I know this might not be relevant to the forum sorry for this.

A lot of my friends are applying for Legal Tech and Legal Operations roles at law firms like Slaughter and May, NRF, A&O and etc. I am thinking of going down the legal tech route but wanted to ask if I qualify in the legal tech route can I still in the future convert back to a solicitor or will I have to do the whole TC process again. Also, I am not talking about CC Ignite TC but am talking about legal tech and legal operations programmes.

What are your thoughts on this @Jaysen @Jessica Booker @AvniD @James Carrabino @George Maxwell

I'm not sure I fully understand your question- what do you mean by qualifying in the legal tech route?

 

[James Carrabino]

Thank you for this - I will check out your post! It is interesting to see different perspectives on it and I definitely wrote my initial post in a moment of frustration. I do appreciate that it gives people an opportunity to stand out other than just on paper, and that the recruiters will know exactly what they are looking for and oftentimes be able to see through the nerves. Really helpful and I will be sure to take this mindset into any in the future!

Don't get me wrong - I found them incredibly frustrating too! It is tough because we all want to be able to control everything we can, especially once we get past the application stage with a firm. A faulty answer in a live interview does not feel half as bad as a bad answer in a video interview because live interviews at least have a sense of being assessed holistically, whilst video interviews really come down to an assessment of each question and how well we can respond to it, which is discomfiting. Good interviewers can also steer a live interview to their strengths and the 'make or break' nature of each video interview question always got me nervous and left me kicking myself afterwards.

It is only with hindsight that I realised that video interviews actually gave me an opportunity I may not have had otherwise. I may well have been rejected at the initial application stage had the firms not had video interviews and video interviews are a bit like an enhanced application form where you can also show some of your personality. So, on the whole I did not think they were the worst thing ever! I may have different thoughts if they start assessing them with AI as @Jessica Booker mentioned - I have heard of this in other careers and I don't really understand it...