TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[GXA123]

@Jessica Booker what is the difference between these 2 questions, because I feel like they are asking for the same thing...

1) Please tell us why you are interested in this position?
2) Why does a career in (law firm's name) interests you?

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker what is the difference between these 2 questions, because I feel like they are asking for the same thing...

1) Please tell us why you are interested in this position?
2) Why does a career in (law firm's name) interests you?

To me they are different.

The first one is why specifically the vacancy you are applying to. This doesn’t need to be anything about the firm as such, just the individual job opportunity. For instance, if this is a TC that could be the seat options, secondments, TC structure, training, personal development elements embedded into the TC.

The second is about the firm. That could the the work, culture, environment etc.

There could be a little bit of cross over with work into the two questions (eg type of clients you would work with/strength of practice areas or sectors) but I would make sure to not repeat detail across these questions and choose which one you want to focus on (if this is relevant to your motivation).

 

[Ole1999]

Anyone else still having issues with the Shoosmiths VI invite link? Can’t seem to login at all

 

[GXA123]

To me they are different.

The first one is why specifically the vacancy you are applying to. This doesn’t need to be anything about the firm as such, just the individual job opportunity. For instance, if this is a TC that could be the seat options, secondments, TC structure, training, personal development elements embedded into the TC.

The second is about the firm. That could the the work, culture, environment etc.

There could be a little bit of cross over with work into the two questions (eg type of clients you would work with/strength of practice areas or sectors) but I would make sure to not repeat detail across these questions and choose which one you want to focus on (if this is relevant to your motivation).

Thank you, but I personally think that this firm is asking for a lot with this and why law and why this jurisdiction and a cover letter on top of that!

 

[antisocial applicant]

Don’t try to over think/formulate it - flexing and adapting to the group/exercise rather than setting an expected agenda/discussion is important.

If roles are needed though it is important to define them early and make sure everyone is clear on who is doing what.

My advice is to try and forgot it is assessed and think more about how you would approach this task if it was real work.

Thank you!

 

[CorporateCrayfish]

White & Case are really going to give summer vacation scheme places the day before it starts.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you, but I personally think that this firm is asking for a lot with this and why law and why this jurisdiction and a cover letter on top of that!

Some firms like to be thorough. I know it can be a lot to ask for, but they will only be asking things they think are relevant and important for them to help them make the right selection.

 

[AvniD]

So I took part in an inter-university commercial awareness competition recently. We were in small teams, and my teammate and I had to present back to the panel on a case study. Our presentation had multiple sections which we split amongst ourselves. They start first, I go next- all good so far. When the last section comes about they go way over the time limit of 1 min (which they had told me to strictly stick to in the preparation breakout room) and I am left with less than 30 seconds for my last section. I can only outline what I was going to talk about in a sentence before being cut off. Then there are questions from the panel- and I don't get to say a single word. They take up all the questions, including the questions regarding my part of the presentation. I unmuted myself multiple times but they took up the question nonetheless and as soon as they were done the panel member asking would say thank you and move on.

I am not shy or introverted. I am a confident speaker who has presented in high profile conferences and forums. I am also the "mother" of the group in group projects, always making sure people contribute and that work is allocated fairly- I don't try to make myself stand out over the rest of my team.

This experience made me feel so defeated, patronised, and small. The only positive part of it is that the outcome (which we found out in a few days) is assessed on a team level, and I must have done something right because I've had legal recruiters of the sponsoring firms reach out via LinkedIn.

Beside the rant, I guess the question here is: have you ever had to deal with difficult and "macho" team members like that, and how did you cope?

My reply to your post is fairly long but I promise it has a point- please bear with me!

I relate with this to such a large extent- I've been in a similar position once before in my life and I learnt some really valuable lessons from it that I carry with myself to this date.

I was part of this competition once where we had to pitch an idea in teams. The teams had been formed many weeks in advance, so we all knew each other and had met on a few occasions- I picked up no red flags regarding how everyone else was behaving with me.

Cut to the day of the competition, we're given a couple hours to prepare and everything gets turned on its head. I could sense that deliberate attempts to either ignore or silence me were being made by my teammates and it was incredibly unnerving.

I'm generally the one in teams who likes to put forward ideas, collaborate with others in execution or take the lead, and I now found myself being reduced to a mere spectator because nothing I said or did was being entertained by my teammates.

An hour in, I managed to get a word in edgewise about the direction of our pitch but it was taken on in its entirety with neither any credit or acknowledgement given to me and my team simply moved on. Witnessing this, I realised that the only thing I really could do was listen, observe, take notes and and see if any of my efforts would be useful later on in the presentation. Although this was a new role for me in a teamwork context and made me feel uncomfortable at first, I found solace in having found at least something to do.

Given everybody's attitude towards me the whole day, I was unsurprisingly given the role of introducing our team (not the pitch, mind you), which I finished in less than 30 seconds and then stood watching while the rest of the team divided the remaining 9.5 minutes between them.

Once the presentation finished, some unexpected things happened. We were asked a few questions by a panel of judges that my team was rather unprepared to answer. You see, in focusing on excluding me and rushing to finish the presentation, the team had had forgotten to think about questions that we may be asked about budgets, organisation, execution etc.

Since I had done nothing but observe the team and think about our pitch for the last few hours, I found myself being able to answer the panel's questions with confidence and forethought, and when my team picked up on this, they stood watching in silence and inevitably let me take the lead. The day ended with us winning the competition and the judges personally reaching out to me later on to commend me on my ability to take on challenging questions. Till date, I am still in touch with the judges and am remembered for my performance in that competition, which is something that I never would've imagined happening at the beginning of it.

I took a few things away from this experience that I hope will help you reconcile with your negative experience-

• Being able to detach oneself from the role you expect to adopt in a team can help you flourish in unexpected ways.
  
  
• If your teammates are being exclusionary, don't wait for them to assign something to you and find something to do regardless.
  
  
• It is difficult to confront 'macho' team members while you're working on a group project, especially if they outnumber you/have ganged up on you, so you need to find unique ways to make yourself engaged in the project regardless of the attempts your teammates make to exclude you.
  
  
• Understand what really matters- in my case, it was the presentation and conversation with the judges that really mattered at the end of the day, and I think that maybe this was something I considered subconsciously. It seems like you did too, given that you are currently being heavily recruited!

I hope this helps- wishing you the very best!

 

[GXA123]

Some firms like to be thorough. I know it can be a lot to ask for, but they will only be asking things they think are relevant and important for them to help them make the right selection.

I seee, thanks a lot!

 

[lawstudent1111]

Hi everyone! I have a quick question regarding the LPC. I have received offers for both BPP and ULaw and I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to make the choice. I was leaning more towards ULaw but I know that BPP has more partnerships with big-city law firms so I was unsure whether this might affect my applications later on... any help would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Asil Ahmad]

Hi everyone! I have a quick question regarding the LPC. I have received offers for both BPP and ULaw and I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to make the choice. I was leaning more towards ULaw but I know that BPP has more partnerships with big-city law firms so I was unsure whether this might affect my applications later on... any help would be greatly appreciated!

I know there is a thread here on this forum about this if I can find it I will post it.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi everyone! I have a quick question regarding the LPC. I have received offers for both BPP and ULaw and I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to make the choice. I was leaning more towards ULaw but I know that BPP has more partnerships with big-city law firms so I was unsure whether this might affect my applications later on... any help would be greatly appreciated!

Law firms don’t care where you do your LPC. It really won’t have any impact on future applications whether you choose one or the other (or any other LPC institution).

The only thing I would stress is how viable the LPC as a course (no matter who the provider is) will be. With many firms changing to the SQE in either 2023 or 2024, the LPC has a very short lifespan span, and it’s only really if you are looking to start a TC in 2023 that I think it is a good idea to pursue it.

The only good thing is that it will give you an exemption from SQE1, but that is a very expensive and longwinded way of getting an exemption.

 

[James Carrabino]

White & Case are really going to give summer vacation scheme places the day before it starts.

I remember when I applied for the Open Day, which is one of the more competitive Open Days to get onto, I applied over a month in advance and received my invitation to the Open Day at around 7pm the evening before the Open Day (which started at 9am) 🤣 Always remember that it's not a PFO until it's a PFO!

 

[James Carrabino]

Hi everyone! I have a quick question regarding the LPC. I have received offers for both BPP and ULaw and I was wondering if anyone has any tips on how to make the choice. I was leaning more towards ULaw but I know that BPP has more partnerships with big-city law firms so I was unsure whether this might affect my applications later on... any help would be greatly appreciated!

Here are some recent threads on the topic that I have found:

ULaw or BPP for LPC?

Hi guys, I just got an offer from BPP and ULaw. I am a self-funding international student so I am a bit more lenient towards ULaw because they have offered the International Bursary which has made the course cheaper, whereas, I don't qualify for the BPP one due to my grades. I wanted to get a...

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

LPC - ULaw v BPP

I was wondering if anyone who is currently studying at either BPP or ULaw could help me to decide which one to choose? In particular, I was wondering if ULaw was fully open-book other than the MCQ's? I am also interested to hear whether this is the case for BPP? Also, I have heard that BPP...

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

 

[lawstudent1111]

I know there is a thread here on this forum about this if I can find it I will post it.

Here are some recent threads on the topic that I have found:

ULaw or BPP for LPC?

Hi guys, I just got an offer from BPP and ULaw. I am a self-funding international student so I am a bit more lenient towards ULaw because they have offered the International Bursary which has made the course cheaper, whereas, I don't qualify for the BPP one due to my grades. I wanted to get a...

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

LPC - ULaw v BPP

I was wondering if anyone who is currently studying at either BPP or ULaw could help me to decide which one to choose? In particular, I was wondering if ULaw was fully open-book other than the MCQ's? I am also interested to hear whether this is the case for BPP? Also, I have heard that BPP...

www.thecorporatelawacademy.com

Thank you so much!

 

[lawstudent1111]

Law firms don’t care where you do your LPC. It really won’t have any impact on future applications whether you choose one or the other (or any other LPC institution).

The only thing I would stress is how viable the LPC as a course (no matter who the provider is) will be. With many firms changing to the SQE in either 2023 or 2024, the LPC has a very short lifespan span, and it’s only really if you are looking to start a TC in 2023 that I think it is a good idea to pursue it.

The only good thing is that it will give you an exemption from SQE1, but that is a very expensive and longwinded way of getting an exemption.

Hi Jessica! Thank you so much for your reply!

I am in my final year of my qualifying law degree and I have applied for the LPC as I have not been able to secure any vacation schemes or training contracts and was thus considering self funding the LPC and then applying again for vacations schemes/training contracts in the next cycle.

However, I can understand your point about the LPC not being very viable as a course, especially considering its cost, and that as you say many firms will be changing to the SQE in either 2023 or 2024. One of my main worries is not being able to secure a TC right after my LPC and even if I do secure one that firms will have switched to the SQE by then and I would have spent a lot of money on nothing.

Thus I wanted to ask you, in the case that firms do make the switch in 2023/2024, what you would suggest someone in a position like mine to do next year? Of course I am still trying to find other work options and sending applications but any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I understand if this is not your area of expertise and thank you for your time in advance!

 

[Deleted member 11671]

when you do group exercises, what are the first words usually spoken? Do people assign roles to themselves like PM/note taker/time keeper or just get straight into discussing the task without worrying about formal titles?

I would say that you can think about allocating roles but do think about the content you're going to speak about too. Often times, the note taker/timekeeper focuses too much on their role and ends up missing the juicy bits of the presentation because someone else volunteered before them. But do remember that you are usually being observed in the group exercise so speak up when needed, be collaborative and offer to help others out with their point too.

 

[WillkieGemma]

Hi Jessica! Thank you so much for your reply!

I am in my final year of my qualifying law degree and I have applied for the LPC as I have not been able to secure any vacation schemes or training contracts and was thus considering self funding the LPC and then applying again for vacations schemes/training contracts in the next cycle.

However, I can understand your point about the LPC not being very viable as a course, especially considering its cost, and that as you say many firms will be changing to the SQE in either 2023 or 2024. One of my main worries is not being able to secure a TC right after my LPC and even if I do secure one that firms will have switched to the SQE by then and I would have spent a lot of money on nothing.

Thus I wanted to ask you, in the case that firms do make the switch in 2023/2024, what you would suggest someone in a position like mine to do next year? Of course I am still trying to find other work options and sending applications but any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I understand if this is not your area of expertise and thank you for your time in advance!

Hi @lawstudent1111

I completely agree with everything @Jessica Booker said in her post. My advice would be to work after you graduate, rather than spend a huge amount of money on the LPC, when you don't need to. Remember that most law firms will pay for your LPC/SQE but few reimburse.

Thanks
Gemma

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica! Thank you so much for your reply!

I am in my final year of my qualifying law degree and I have applied for the LPC as I have not been able to secure any vacation schemes or training contracts and was thus considering self funding the LPC and then applying again for vacations schemes/training contracts in the next cycle.

However, I can understand your point about the LPC not being very viable as a course, especially considering its cost, and that as you say many firms will be changing to the SQE in either 2023 or 2024. One of my main worries is not being able to secure a TC right after my LPC and even if I do secure one that firms will have switched to the SQE by then and I would have spent a lot of money on nothing.

Thus I wanted to ask you, in the case that firms do make the switch in 2023/2024, what you would suggest someone in a position like mine to do next year? Of course I am still trying to find other work options and sending applications but any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I understand if this is not your area of expertise and thank you for your time in advance!

It technically won't be for nothing - it will give you an exemption for SQE1 which means you could skip some of the prep (probably do a shorter prep course just focused on SQE2) and would obviously not have to pay out for the SQE 1 exams or prep course.

I just think this is a really expensive and time consuming way of getting an exemption.

Most firms are moving to the SQE by 2023 or 2024 because there will be such a small pipeline of talent who are still eligible to take the LPC route by 2024. By 2023 no non-law grads will be able to qualify via the LPC route unless they have done a part-time GDL or have deferred exams. In addition, many firms are not offering the option of how to qualify for those who have got a choice because trainees could ultimately be dealt with very differently. It is easier for many firms to just transition everyone over to the SQE to ensure consistency in how the trainees are managed.

I think my advice is to hold off until the late summer before making any decisions. LPC providers are notorious for piling on the pressure for you to commit early but put frankly, they never sell these courses out, and will really struggle to do so now the courses are on their way out. They are always advertising the courses weeks before they start in the late summer/early autumn. They will often try to sell the courses with early discounts etc to get people to commit when ultimately there is no need to do this. I would continue applying over the summer, see how your applications go, and then make a decision as to whether the LPC or the SQE is the right route for you.

If you go into the autumn recruitment cycle, a lot of firms will be recruiting for 2024/25 by that point, and I think it would be worthwhile checking which firms you want to apply to and whether they have moved across to the SQE or not to help inform your decision on what to do.

 

[OB]

Anyone had any news from Taylor Wessing recently?