TCLA General Discussion Thread 2022-23

[AlexJ]

is it worth doing the LPC LLM rather than just the LPC? There is no extra cost and i have secured a TC with a firm that will allow me to do the LPC.

If you have not done a masters already then you would be able to claim the masters loan if you do the llm (about 11k)

 

[Jessica Booker]

is it worth doing the LPC LLM rather than just the LPC? There is no extra cost and i have secured a TC with a firm that will allow me to do the LPC.

Only value is really the ability to apply for a postgraduate student loan (assuming you haven’t already utilised this).

There is no value for your career in all honesty, although some people choose to do their LLM top up research project/assessment on a topic they hope to qualify into, with the hope it may influence seat choices, which in turn may help qualification - but I don’t think you can say it will definitely help.

 

[abcdefg123]

Does anyone have any tips on how to ensure your writing is as concise as possible? Especially on timed written exercises. TIA

 

[thoms]

Does anyone know how long we have to wait to hear back from ULAW/BPP for a PGDL application ?

 

[LlamaLaw]

Does anyone know how long we have to wait to hear back from ULAW/BPP for a PGDL application ?

Generally not long. Mine was about a day.

 

[laurabeaumont]

@Jessica Booker & anyone that could take the time out to advise (apologies for so many questions):

1) I applied for very few VS this year due to having some other commitments that left me with little to no time & only progressed to SJT stage for one, I'll be in 4th/final year of my law degree in Sep (Scottish uni), what work experience could I get apart from Citizens Adv. that could be managed along w dissertation & finals?

2) I don't have much formal work experience, let alone legal WE, mainly coz I did a few delivery driver jobs & was earning from my YT channel (non-law) and working for uni's marketing team to support myself. My friend who's recently got an accountant job said that I shouldn't mention delivery driving or content creation for apps. coz it wouldn't sit well w law firms, but that would leave me with little to no WE for certain periods, what should I do then?

3) Since I applied very late for vac schemes I'm not completely aware of how people go about them. For non-rolling vac schemes, do people submit their app. at the deadline in Jan or whenever it's done?

4) I live in Scotland but studying an English law degree, so applying for TC in Manchester, should I make the effort to attend events like Open Days? I can afford travel expenses but it would be time consuming especially considering its final year, so is it worth taking the time out to go in-person?

5) I have realised that with little to no work experience it is really hard to get a TC, but what criteria could one use to maximise the chances? Does applying for smaller firms make any difference, coz even they would still want someone with some experience at least?

Thanks in advance

Hi @DKLaw !

In relation to formal work experience:

It is less about the quantity of WE and more about what you learned in any work experience you have done. Firms will be understanding if you have been in education and haven't been able to demonstrate extensive experience. The fact you have found time in your busy schedule to even undertake a few delivery driver jobs/YT chancel can be utilised on applications to demonstrate you are able to, for example, manage your time well. WE - both legal and non-legal - can and should be used to demonstrate that you have nurtured skills that are useful or essential to the job of a trainee solicitor. How you present your own self-evaluation of your skill development is more important than how many jobs you have taken on, in my humble opinion. If delivery driving or content creation, in your eyes, aided in the development of such skills - teamwork, leadership etc - then mention them as part of your journey towards becoming a solicitor. Both big and small firms are likely to focus on such evaluation.

In relation to non-rolling vacation schemes:

There is no right/wrong answer to this because if the firm states they will not read your application until after the set deadline, you can get them in for the January deadline or submit them earlier. It never hurts to organise ahead and submit them earlier, however, just in the off chance that a recruiter does start reading them earlier - @Jessica Booker do you agree?

I hope that answers your questions

 

[laurabeaumont]

Does anyone have any tips on how to ensure your writing is as concise as possible? Especially on timed written exercises. TIA

For a while, I struggled with this problem and I read this article by the University of North Carolina which helped me considerably - https://writingcenter.unc.edu/tips-and-tools/conciseness-handout/

Practice makes perfect - as they always say. Have a read and let me know if this helps

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @DKLaw !

In relation to formal work experience:

It is less about the quantity of WE and more about what you learned in any work experience you have done. Firms will be understanding if you have been in education and haven't been able to demonstrate extensive experience. The fact you have found time in your busy schedule to even undertake a few delivery driver jobs/YT chancel can be utilised on applications to demonstrate you are able to, for example, manage your time well. WE - both legal and non-legal - can and should be used to demonstrate that you have nurtured skills that are useful or essential to the job of a trainee solicitor. How you present your own self-evaluation of your skill development is more important than how many jobs you have taken on, in my humble opinion. If delivery driving or content creation, in your eyes, aided in the development of such skills - teamwork, leadership etc - then mention them as part of your journey towards becoming a solicitor. Both big and small firms are likely to focus on such evaluation.

In relation to non-rolling vacation schemes:

There is no right/wrong answer to this because if the firm states they will not read your application until after the set deadline, you can get them in for the January deadline or submit them earlier. It never hurts to organise ahead and submit them earlier, however, just in the off chance that a recruiter does start reading them earlier - @Jessica Booker do you agree?

I hope that answers your questions

If a firm’s recruitment process is completely non rolling (they only review applications after the deadline), there wouldn’t be much benefit applying early for that firm (recruiters won’t review early), but it can help you spread out your applications and create a bit of a time strategy over the weeks or months you are applying.

 

[DKLaw]

Hi @DKLaw !

In relation to formal work experience:

It is less about the quantity of WE and more about what you learned in any work experience you have done. Firms will be understanding if you have been in education and haven't been able to demonstrate extensive experience. The fact you have found time in your busy schedule to even undertake a few delivery driver jobs/YT chancel can be utilised on applications to demonstrate you are able to, for example, manage your time well. WE - both legal and non-legal - can and should be used to demonstrate that you have nurtured skills that are useful or essential to the job of a trainee solicitor. How you present your own self-evaluation of your skill development is more important than how many jobs you have taken on, in my humble opinion. If delivery driving or content creation, in your eyes, aided in the development of such skills - teamwork, leadership etc - then mention them as part of your journey towards becoming a solicitor. Both big and small firms are likely to focus on such evaluation.

In relation to non-rolling vacation schemes:

There is no right/wrong answer to this because if the firm states they will not read your application until after the set deadline, you can get them in for the January deadline or submit them earlier. It never hurts to organise ahead and submit them earlier, however, just in the off chance that a recruiter does start reading them earlier - @Jessica Booker do you agree?

I hope that answers your questions

Thank you so much Laura, this is really helpful 😊

 

[Lawyerwithadream]

Hi @Jessica Booker I am not sure how to approach the below question. Is this simply a time management/organisational question? "had to drop everything and really raise your game in order to keep a promise" slightly throws me off.

Describe a time when you had to drop everything and really 'raise your game' in order to keep a promise you had made to someone else. How did you manage both this and your other commitments?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker I am not sure how to approach the below question. Is this simply a time management/organisational question? "had to drop everything and really raise your game in order to keep a promise" slightly throws me off.

Describe a time when you had to drop everything and really 'raise your game' in order to keep a promise you had made to someone else. How did you manage both this and your other commitments?

To me, this goes beyond just time management/organisation.

It’s the unexpected element here - something has happened that has made you have to reassess so you can do even more than you were already planning/expecting to do. There really needs to be an element of you having to work harder/do more to deliver to high standards, rather than just general time management.

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

To me, this goes beyond just time management/organisation.

It’s the unexpected element here - something has happened that has made you have to reassess so you can do even more than you were already planning/expecting to do. There really needs to be an element of you having to work harder/do more to deliver to high standards, rather than just general time management.

Just on the topic of Hogan Lovells, does anyone know what further information should be included on the app? I've heard from other applicants that although the below question is 'optional', successful candidates include further details.

"Please detail below any further information that you would like us to consider when reviewing your application (Optional) - 250 words"

 

[Jessica Booker]

Just on the topic of Hogan Lovells, does anyone know what further information should be included on the app? I've heard from other applicants that although the below question is 'optional', successful candidates include further details.

"Please detail below any further information that you would like us to consider when reviewing your application (Optional) - 250 words"

I think it really depends on what you think is missing from your application but that you would like to get across but haven’t had the opportunity to present elsewhere in your application. I have seen lots of different responses to this question, and I think the key thing good answers have in common is that they think about what they have presented elsewhere and try to compliment that with detailing any elements that naturally wouldn’t fit into other questions/sections.

 

[Wannabe_Lawyer]

I think it really depends on what you think is missing from your application but that you would like to get across but haven’t had the opportunity to present elsewhere in your application. I have seen lots of different responses to this question, and I think the key thing good answers have in common is that they think about what they have presented elsewhere and try to compliment that with detailing any elements that naturally wouldn’t fit into other questions/sections.

Thank you!

 

[latte23]

hi everyone! does anyone know if online ACs will put an applicant at a disadvantage in the application process? i may have to leave the country for personal reasons and i'm quite anxious about whether attending ACs online will make me a weaker applicant

 

[Jessica Booker]

hi everyone! does anyone know if online ACs will put an applicant at a disadvantage in the application process? i may have to leave the country for personal reasons and i'm quite anxious about whether attending ACs online will make me a weaker applicant (

Not directly no - firms wouldn’t run them if they did put you at a disadvantage.

The only way I can see it being a disadvantage is if you personally struggle to engage online more - but for other people they feel more comfortable/less nervous online and so they could be at a slight advantage compared to if it was in person.

 

[futuretraineesolicitor]

Hello @Jessica Booker hope you are doing well. Kind of a stupid question but I'll go ahead anyway. When people say that you can get questions from your application, what does it mean? The fact that the interviewers can ask us to go into more detail on any aspect (which is expected) or can they also focus on current events related to our work experiences. For example, if I did an internship at an NGO, can they ask me stuff about prevalent human rights issues in the world? Thanks.

 

[laurabeaumont]

Hello @Jessica Booker hope you are doing well. Kind of a stupid question but I'll go ahead anyway. When people say that you can get questions from your application, what does it mean? The fact that the interviewers can ask us to go into more detail on any aspect (which is expected) or can they also focus on current events related to our work experiences. For example, if I did an internship at an NGO, can they ask me stuff about prevalent human rights issues in the world? Thanks.

Hey @futuretraineesolicitor!

I know this is targeted towards @Jessica Booker but thought I'd just add that I once had a VS interview at a firm (not the one I am ending up at) that started by quite literally reading and talking through my application. I don't think this applies to every firm but does depend on the interviewer. In my case, they asked general questions about my experiences and time at university. Half of my interview was spent on that! It is likely your application will be be within view of the interviewer during the interview and so very likely any work experience or information on your application could be asked about. I suppose it depends on how much freedom the interviewer has in what questions they ask - never hurts to be prepared for any question on your experiences!

Hope that insight helps - Laura

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hello @Jessica Booker hope you are doing well. Kind of a stupid question but I'll go ahead anyway. When people say that you can get questions from your application, what does it mean? The fact that the interviewers can ask us to go into more detail on any aspect (which is expected) or can they also focus on current events related to our work experiences. For example, if I did an internship at an NGO, can they ask me stuff about prevalent human rights issues in the world? Thanks.

It is exactly what you have stated - any information on your application form could be asked about, to either get more details/clarification/explanation about.

In your application, you are only presenting certain aspects of your experience - this is often factual (e.g. your degree subject) but your interviewer could be far more interested in why you choose that degree subject rather than your experience of doing it. However, other interviewers might want to really understand what you liked/disliked about your degree - which again is less likely to be represented in an application.

Interviewers can also ask you about your opinions on current matters related to your experience too though. For instance, if your application referenced something about either learning about or utilising AI, I wouldn't be surprised if the interviewer asked you questions like what you thought about Chat GPT and your thoughts on how such AI technology could impact law firms.

 

[futuretraineesolicitor]

It is exactly what you have stated - any information on your application form could be asked about, to either get more details/clarification/explanation about.

In your application, you are only presenting certain aspects of your experience - this is often factual (e.g. your degree subject) but your interviewer could be far more interested in why you choose that degree subject rather than your experience of doing it. However, other interviewers might want to really understand what you liked/disliked about your degree - which again is less likely to be represented in an application.

Interviewers can also ask you about your opinions on current matters related to your experience too though. For instance, if your application referenced something about either learning about or utilising AI, I wouldn't be surprised if the interviewer asked you questions like what you thought about Chat GPT and your thoughts on how such AI technology could impact law firms.

Hey @futuretraineesolicitor!

I know this is targeted towards @Jessica Booker but thought I'd just add that I once had a VS interview at a firm (not the one I am ending up at) that started by quite literally reading and talking through my application. I don't think this applies to every firm but does depend on the interviewer. In my case, they asked general questions about my experiences and time at university. Half of my interview was spent on that! It is likely your application will be being within view during the interview and so very likely any work experience or information on your application could be asked about. I suppose it depends on how much freedom the interviewer has in what questions they ask - never hurts to be prepared for any question on your experiences!

Hope that insight helps - Laura

Thank you very much for your answers @laurabeaumont @Jessica Booker. This was really helpful.