TCLA General Discussion Thread 2021-22 (#1)

[Jessica Booker]

I guess the main difference w/r/t to finance is whether the qualification is necessary to do the job, in many cases where your role doesn’t involve giving advice you won’t need to be a CFA. In my view there isn’t really a point of comparison there since it’s possible to work in the sector without CFA but you can’t be a solicitor without LPC/SQE. In this regard I do think law is different to other sectors and less suited to an apprenticeship/earn while you learn structure. I hadn’t considered surveying/real estate as very few people from my university/background choose to enter these roles.

I also think there hasn’t been enough consideration of how this route would work for non-law graduates. Case in point, Kennedy’s requires you to already have a qualifiying law degree, so is not more accessible for non-law graduates. Ultimately, I think it’s unlikely this route would make the profession more accessible, especially considering financial accessibility is only one small factor that makes the profession less accessible, and social mobility is one of many areas where firms want to improve diversity.

The SQE apprenticeships could incorporate the GDL (which is expected in time), then that issue is not a problem. The GDL could be delivered as an apprenticeship too if firms and training providers wanted to.

The SQE prep course is not a requirement though, it’s just passing the exams that are. And even then, passing is not a requirement for the graduate job, only to qualify. That is the same for some financial services jobs - to be promoted you may need a professional qualification (especially relevant for accountancy qualifications though). Same goes for RICS accredited careers.

Interestingly the SRA have recently changed their message and are now suggesting that SQE2 should be done upon qualification (training providers are not happy about this). If it changes from a recommendation to an actual qualification process, we will see this move to something more like the RICS accreditation, and the whole process could change anyway.

 

[IRO]

The SQE apprenticeships could incorporate the GDL (which is expected in time), then that issue is not a problem. The GDL could be delivered as an apprenticeship too if firms and training providers wanted to.

The SQE prep course is not a requirement though, it’s just passing the exams that are. And even then, passing is not a requirement for the graduate job, only to qualify. That is the same for some financial services jobs - to be promoted you may need a professional qualification (especially relevant for accountancy qualifications though). Same goes for RICS accredited careers.

Interestingly the SRA have recently changed their message and are now suggesting that SQE2 should be done upon qualification (training providers are not happy about this). If it changes from a recommendation to an actual qualification process, we will see this move to something more like the RICS accreditation, and the whole process could change anyway.

It will probably depend on the SRA requirements then, as I doubt there will be any change without the SRA requiring QWE be done before SQE2. Firms changing to follow Reed Smith /Kennedy’s seems unlikely to me without SRA intervention.

All of these potential changes feel a bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut in my view as I don’t think the changes will have a significant impact on accessibility/diversity. Statistics seem to reveal that diversity in the legal profession is more of an issue at partnership level than recruitment level, so I’m not convince a radical overhaul to how people enter the profession would be beneficial when resources could be better allocated to retaining talent through to partnership.

In any case, I’m glad to be qualifying under a more traditional system and that this was an option for me. I would not have entered law if the only path was via an apprenticeship.

 

[Jessica Booker]

It will probably depend on the SRA requirements then, as I doubt there will be any change without the SRA requiring QWE be done before SQE2. Firms changing to follow Reed Smith /Kennedy’s seems unlikely to me without SRA intervention.

All of these potential changes feel a bit like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut in my view as I don’t think the changes will have a significant impact on accessibility/diversity. Statistics seem to reveal that diversity in the legal profession is more of an issue at partnership level than recruitment level, so I’m not convince a radical overhaul to how people enter the profession would be beneficial when resources could be better allocated to retaining talent through to partnership.

In any case, I’m glad to be qualifying under a more traditional system and that this was an option for me. I would not have entered law if the only path was via an apprenticeship.

Apprenticeships will never be the only path - that’s the whole point of the SQE, to provide more flexibility in the training and yet have a centralised assessment. The SRA are just suggesting that the second part of that centralised assessment is once you have accumulated work experience, and that will naturally suit the apprenticeship model more. Even if it does become the process, firms could just give a block of study leave (like how many finance firms do with the CFA) rather than take an apprenticeship route.

We also have to remember the big corporate law firms are actually a minority in the pool of training contract providers. The apprenticeship model will suit other organisations who cannot pour hundreds of thousands of pounds into training. Those firms and other employers were expecting people to self fund the LPC and there were huge inequalities because of that. The SRA had to have the whole sector in mind when thinking about the qualification process, not just what would work for a minority of law firms in the city.

The irony is they said the same when the LPC came in, and that became a standard everyone was happy with after a few years. I expect this to be similar.

I think the name “apprenticeships” gets some stigma attached to it that a lot of people don’t really understand. All it really is is a method to keep get funding to train people whilst they work. A lot of graduate programmes are actually apprentices, just their job title or graduate programme are not named as such due to the stigma attached.

 

[IRO]

It will never be the only path - that’s the whole point of the SQE, to provide more flexibility in the training and yet have a centralised assessment.

We also have to remember the big corporate law firms are actually a minority in the pool of training contract providers. The apprenticeship model will suit other organisations who cannot pour hundreds of thousands of pounds into training. Those firms and other employers were expecting people to self fund the LPC and there were huge inequalities because of that. The SRA had to have the whole sector in mind when thinking about the qualification process, not just what would work for a minority of law firms in the city.

The irony is they said the same when the LPC came in, and that became a standard everyone was happy with after a few years. I expect this to be similar.

Of course, I do consider that one of the significant limitations of this forum is that when we talk about law we are almost always talking about the small subset of big corporate law firms, usually in London. I guess the clue is in the name after all!

I think my point still stands as I was comparing funded (P)GDL/SQE courses followed by QWE at big corporate firms with funded apprenticeships in the same firms. Anything else would feel like an unfair apples to oranges comparison, and would not further discussion. In terms of the rest of the sector, I really wasn’t talking about that as I don’t think it’s relevant to the forum or the question at hand.

ETA: in terms of it being the only route, I think you have to remember that we are talking about the subset of corporate city firms. If all city firms followed the apprenticeship route it would essentially be the only choice to those interested in corporate city law, and therefore de facto the only route. Obviously I’m grateful that’s not the case, as an apprenticeship would not be accessible to me because of my disability, and I’d prefer to see movement that makes the profession more accessible, not less. If the only way to enter corporate law in the city was through an apprenticeship with everyone following Kennedy’s/Reed Smith as you suggested I’d have to chose a different career.

 

[summer207]

If you have replied now, I wouldn't send another email. See if they do it again, and then pick up then if needed.

Hi @Jessica Booker, I hope you are well. Is it okay if I messaged you privately regarding this?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker, I hope you are well. Is it okay if I messaged you privately regarding this?

Of course - not a problem at all.

 

[A92167!8]

Will choosing the LPC fully online option over the in-person option be looked down upon by firms? Would this be considered when applying to firms post qualification? @Jessica Booker

 

[Jessica Booker]

Will choosing the LPC fully online option over the in-person option be looked down upon by firms? Would this be considered when applying to firms post qualification? @Jessica Booker

No - wouldn’t be an issue for training contracts, and definitely wouldn’t care less for qualification processes.

Just be mindful that many firms are moving to the SQE for 2023 or 2024 and may not give you the choice of a LPC TC.

 

[PirateShip]

I was reading the comments on Legal Cheek's 'Career Conundrums' section regarding posting "Incoming Vac Schemer" on LinkedIn, and whilst it's no secret that anonymous comments tend to bring out the worst in people, I was surprised by how strongly opinionated most commenters are on such a trivial issue 😅

 

[lawstudent12]

Hi everyone! I am a first-year law student. I am new to this forum so apologies if this isn't the right place to be posting this.

I have made several applications this year and so far have been unsuccessful in almost all of them. Firms, as most of you will know, are unable to provide feedback because of the number of applications they receive. I am really confused and feel a little lost in terms of what can be improved in my future applications.

Will it be possible for someone to kindly review my CV and offer some feedback and guidance so that I can improve my future applications? I have tried to sign up for mentoring schemes at university but haven't heard back so I'd really appreciate some help!

Thanks!

 

[James Carrabino]

@lawstudent12 you may like to check out TCLA's application review service where you can have both applications and CVs reviewed

 

[AvniD]

Hi everyone! I am a first-year law student. I am new to this forum so apologies if this isn't the right place to be posting this.

I have made several applications this year and so far have been unsuccessful in almost all of them. Firms, as most of you will know, are unable to provide feedback because of the number of applications they receive. I am really confused and feel a little lost in terms of what can be improved in my future applications.

Will it be possible for someone to kindly review my CV and offer some feedback and guidance so that I can improve my future applications? I have tried to sign up for mentoring schemes at university but haven't heard back so I'd really appreciate some help!

Thanks!

Hey @lawstudent12! Very well done on trying to figure out where you can improve your applications. Starting with your CV is good because that can help you identify if there are gaps in your experience that may be holding your applications back.

Would also recommend getting one of your applications reviewed either by us at TCLA or your uni careers service. If you know a future/current trainee who may be willing to volunteer some time in going over one of your apps to help you understand where you can improve, that may be useful too.

The trick is ensuring that your apps have the right mix of decent grades (ensure you state any mitigating circumstances if you have them) + work ex (including open days, attending webinars etc.) + firm research + industry research + most importantly a stellar demonstration of your motivations for a career in commercial law at the firm you're applying to.

I know this is a fairly cursory glance at how you can improve your applications but I hope it is helpful nonetheless. Well done on posting in the forum and I hope to see you post more often!

 

[HopefulFutureTrainee]

I was reading the comments on Legal Cheek's 'Career Conundrums' section regarding posting "Incoming Vac Schemer" on LinkedIn, and whilst it's no secret that anonymous comments tend to bring out the worst in people, I was surprised by how strongly opinionated most commenters are on such a trivial issue 😅

omg SAME! I was literally reading those today and I was so surprised how mean people can be - I guess people don't really follow the 'live and let live' idea. It was quite sad how triggered some people were by a question that's not even a real issue..

 

[itsfatima_r]

Has anyone heard back from Browne Jacobson post test ? - this is for the vacation scheme

 

[summer207]

Of course - not a problem at all.

I forgot to PM you because it actually came up that day, I used the template you had sent previously and it actually went really well. She was apologetic and very understanding, so thank you!

 

[Jessica Booker]

I forgot to PM you because it actually came up that day, I used the template you had sent previously and it actually went really well. She was apologetic and very understanding, so thank you!

Great news - glad you got it sorted!

 

[TCApp2021]

Anyone know how hard the SQE is supposed to be? Is there a thread on this?

 

[rlaura02]

Hey everyone!! Need some advice - feeling so stressed right now. I failed my BLP module by 2 marks (first attempt) and I'm so gutted because I got distinctions in my other exams, just had such a bad day with the BLP exam. I think at BPP I can only get a Pass overall on the LPC now which is really hard to take...how much will this stop me securing a TC? I've had a few interviews for smaller firms but I'm just so disappointed in myself.

 

[Alison C]

Anyone know how hard the SQE is supposed to be? Is there a thread on this?

There was a thread by a person who'd studied for SQE 1 independently and passed in one of the higher percentiles. It was within the last 3 months and showed great insight into how to tackle it. If you use the search bar and fudge about it will probably come up? Hope that helps!

 

[Abii]

Anyone know how hard the SQE is supposed to be? Is there a thread on this?

This is a very subjective question. For some it will be really hard others not so, much like any other course/exam.

The pass rate is roughly similar to the LPC. I personally hate closed book exams so I’m hoping the fact I’ve almost finished the LPC means whoever gives me a TC doesn’t want me to do SQE 2 🤞🏻🤞🏻