General Discussion Thread 2020-21

[Bugsy Malone]

Absolutely over the moon to have just received a TC offer from Linklaters. I've been in love with the firm since my first year at uni and still can't quite believe this is happening!

To all those expecting to hear for direct TC apps, I believe Links is finalising their offers to vac schemers today/Monday, so you should hopefully hear back soon. Do reach out if you think I can be of any help!

Incredible news, well done!

 

[h2020]

Has anyone heard back from Latham & Watkins?

 

[LegalNim]

Just to repeat, this was said to me by a partner at one firm - I have no idea what other firms do/what other partners feel. It also isn't my opinion.

As to statistics, this is from 2018, but: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/universities-biggest-shares-21s-and-firsts-revealed#

If you click the table and re-order it by percentage of first class degrees awarded, you'll see that Oxford and Cambridge are down in 11th & 14th place respectively. Surrey, UEA, University College Birmingham, Greenwich, West London & Anglia Ruskin all award a higher percentage of firsts than universities like Bristol, Durham, St Andrews etc. Even if you discount music/drama conservatoires because their grading/awarding is done rather differently, there's a trend showing.

I'm certain that there is an element of snobbery and mockery present, but equally there's a grain of truth too. Then again, are some degrees more difficult than others/more difficult to get in for? Scientists would likely make the standard charge that arts students have it easy, and perhaps that is true. As Jessica said, the percentage of private school students/wealthy internationals skews things too.

Like Jessica said, more people are awarded firsts in STEM subjects. Surrey in particular is a STEM uni. Its Tonmeister course (as one example) is considered to be the best in the world. Take a look at this and argue that Surrey doesn't deserve those firsts: http://iosr.surrey.ac.uk/tonmeister/awards.php Oxbridge and RG universities simply don't have a comparable course.
People studying at the universities that you deem to be lesser than yours have probably studied different disciplines. Whilst there's probably some truth that someone studying History at Warwick is "better" than someone studying History at Manchester Met, the statistics aren't saying those students are getting the degree grade. You can't expect that no one studying agricultural management (for example) can get a first and the top universities for that aren't Oxbridge or RG, so which universities are the people who deserve a first in that discipline supposed to attend?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Like Jessica said, more people are awarded firsts in STEM subjects. Surrey in particular is a STEM uni. Its Tonmeister course (as one example) is considered to be the best in the world. Take a look at this and argue that Surrey doesn't deserve those firsts: http://iosr.surrey.ac.uk/tonmeister/awards.php Oxbridge and RG universities simply don't have a comparable course.
People studying at the universities that you deem to be lesser than yours have probably studied different disciplines. Whilst there's probably some truth that someone studying History at Warwick is "better" than someone studying History at Manchester Met, the statistics aren't saying those students are getting the degree grade. You can't expect that no one studying agricultural management (for example) can get a first and the top universities for that aren't Oxbridge or RG, so which universities are the people who deserve a first in that discipline supposed to attend?

The point about degree subject is an important one. Many lower ranked unis are providing much more specialised/technical/modern degrees.

If you want to do something like computer game design or art, you’ll most likely go to a lower ranked uni. The idea is that these are “mickey mouse” degrees but ultimately they are far more practical and relevant than a history degree.

I’ll get off my soapbox before I bore everyone to death

 

[IntrepidL]

Hi @Jessica Booker! I joined a free 8-week coding course in which there was a coding competition and project at the end of it. Would it be appropriate to list this in the work experience section?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi @Jessica Booker! I joined a free 8-week coding course in which there was a coding competition and project at the end of it. Would it be appropriate to list this in the work experience section?

It doesn’t sound like work experience to me, more a training course/e-learning, so should be in a different section

 

[Sager1]

Dentons rejection

Hang in there. Your Yes will come!

 

[J88]

@Jessica Booker What's your opinion on IQ tests (not the silly online ones you can take for 5 minutes, but a full battery of different cognitive exercises like verbal reasoning, mental rotation, numerical reasoning that are standardised & taken by thousands of people, like the ones Mensa and other Test providers give out) and their predictive power for job performance, academic success etc.

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker What's your opinion on IQ tests (not the silly online ones you take for 5 minutes, but a full battery of cognitive exercises like verbal reasoning, mental rotation, numerical reasoning which are standardised and taken by thousands of people, like the ones Mensa and other Test providers give out) and their predictive power for job performance, academic success etc.

Not sure about academic success, but there’s different bits of research that show IQ has little to no correlation to on the job success (not law specific though), while others bits of research that suggests it is.

Ultimately if it was a reliable measure though, people would be using IQ tests as part of the recruitment process. I don’t know anyone who does - although understand there will be correlations/similar themes between IQ tests and some of the psychometric currently used.

EQ is understood to be a much stronger predictor of performance as I understand it.

 

[AC1978]

Hi everyone - am new here but was just wondering whether anyone has heard back from Withers after the AC?

 

[Frank]

I think the reality is probably, as you suggest, somewhere in the middle. Workload is definitely intense; a supervision essay every week compared to friends at other unis who maybe did one/two essay a term definitely requires a lot of effort and teaching in groups of 1-3 means there's nowhere to hid unlike seminars of ~10, but the other side of that coin is you get a ridiculously high volume of feedback and practice before you even get near the exam hall at the end of the year.

With Oxbridge I think it's always important to remember the experience of different students. Broadly, if you're the stereotypical, traditional private schooled student from a stably middle class background then it's a completely congruent experience for you and an environment in which you're going to find it easier to study. By contrast, if you're a 'non-traditional' student from a very different background (as I definitely was) who isn't coming into the setting imbued with all of the social and cultural capital bound up in the Oxbridge teaching system, it's much harder, particularly at first. Of course, this is reflected across all universities too, and is part of the reason I think drawing effective conclusions on institutional levels (like saying it's easy to get a 1st at XYZ university or on ABC course) can be so difficult. The lives and experiences of students at universities are so incredibly varied, that often those conclusions often result in reproducing the power and interest of those with the most privilege.

I’m a non-traditional student who attended a sports high school (from my understanding this doesn’t exist in the UK but in my country it’s one of the worst) and didn’t vibe at all with what you described above about life at Oxbridge

 

[Cer96]

I’m a non-traditional student who attended a sports high school (from my understanding this doesn’t exist in the UK but in my country it’s one of the worst) and didn’t vibe at all with what you described above about life at Oxbridge

Sorry I don’t really understand what you mean! Don’t vibe with the description as in, you disagree and had a different experience? If so, completely get it - main point of that post was to highlight the diversity of experiences people have at Oxbridge (and within most unis) it’s so specific to individual students it’s hard to draw broad conclusions.

Or if you meant didn’t vibe with the experience in that you had a similar one and didn’t enjoy those elements, totally get that too and obvs agree, just wasn’t sure what you meant from your post!

 

[Frank]

Sorry I don’t really understand what you mean! Don’t vibe with the description as in, you disagree and had a different experience? If so, completely get it - main point of that post was to highlight the diversity of experiences people have at Oxbridge (and within most unis) it’s so specific to individual students it’s hard to draw broad conclusions.

Or if you meant didn’t vibe with the experience in that you had a similar one and didn’t enjoy those elements, totally get that too and obvs agree, just wasn’t sure what you meant from your post!

hey sorry for being unclear! The first para is the good interpretation (regarding the non-traditional students) and I agree with what you’ve said. It was an example to your point

 

[EMD]

Has anyone been sent a rejection from Pinsent Masons yet (direct route)? I saw someone from Manchester had been given an offer today which is the office I applied to but I haven’t heard yet so not getting my hopes up.

 

[Shalli]

GLD rejection post VI

 

[e_o]

not necessarily. Some firms may offer before the start of September, but some run their interview processes in September - often because people are away in July/August and they are sometimes waiting for people to accept/decline offers from vacation schemes.

It is always an issue for those who are choosing to do the GDL. My advice to people is to push back on the GDL provider and try to sign up for the course as late as possible - I have never heard of a student missing out on a place on the GDL, and have heard people signing up to the course shortly after the course has started!

Hi Jess, when you say you've heard of people signing up shortly after the course has started, is this a few days or a week or two after?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jess, when you say you've heard of people signing up shortly after the course has started, is this a few days or a week or two after?

Been about 7-10 days. I don’t think it is ideal to do this though. There are always also the January intakes for the GDL that might be feasible if the firm does an accelerated LPC.

 

[csyn]

Has anyone heard back from King & Spalding?

Aside from that, hope everyone's bank holiday weekend is going well!

 

[orange32]

Does A&O automatically send you an email confirmation once you've submitted an app? Haven't received one yet and want to make sure app got through

 

[dosblancos7]

Does A&O automatically send you an email confirmation once you've submitted an app? Haven't received one yet and want to make sure app got through

No- instead they send you the SJT after a few minutes(the email is titled Welcome to A&O's SJT, or something along those lines)