Hi
congrats on getting the invite. Can i ask when you applied and when you got the invite?
Thanks!
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Hey Guest, do you have a question for graduate recruitment? Gemma Baker from Willkie is live to answer your questions!
General Discussion Thread 2020-21
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congrats on getting the invite. Can i ask when you applied and when you got the invite?
Thanks!
What about applying to Freshfields or Slaughter and May? I have already graduated and I can only apply for a direct TC with them. Does this mean that I have zero chance of getting a training contract as I have never done a vac scheme?
P. S. Sorry for jumping into this conversation, I am just interest as well.
- May 4, 2020
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Anyone got a Grad Rec email address for the Akin Gump? Please could you PM me with one if you have one (thanks in advance)
Just sending out emails to firms for our vacation scheme/insight programme download and already stumbled at A (going alphabetically!)
Edit - firms don't make it easy for you to contact them do they
I know this post was from an absolute age ago, but this law fair brochure from 2019 has a lot of law firm grad rec email addresses, on the off-chance you are still looking https://www.careers.ox.ac.uk/files/law-fair-digital-booklet-2019pdf
- May 4, 2020
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Not impossible at all, but it really makes it a lot harder to do. It isn't impossible, as - for example - Shearman & Sterling stress: https://ukgraduates.shearman.com/2016/05/11/help-i-didnt-vacation-scheme-insiders-guide-direct-training-contract-applications/
Hi,
Not at all! So just a little background story, because when I was going through my application process, I was very conscious of not having a VS on my CV.
I applied over two application cycles to get a TC. In my first cycle, I applied for VSs and didn’t get any after a few interviews, and then in the second, I made what in hindsight seems like a plucky move, and applied for only direct TCs- and got one without a VS! So, there is no hard and fast rule about having a VS. It is a pro to have one, but there is no harm in not having one either- in my experience.
Just a couple of points to consider so you’re making best use of your time-
1) Speak to grad rec and find out their position on previous legal work experience and vacation schemes. Firms approach to this varies; and you’re best placed applying for direct TCs at firms, like the MC, where they have a lot more places for that route.
2) Really think about your experience and construct a story for why commercial law. This can be an asset over the usual legal work experience to VS to TC-app story grad rec usually get.
3) Confidence in your experience is really important. Remember that how you feel about your experience is how your app reviewer/interviewer is going to feel.
Good luck with your app!
If you have done a MC VS, but are applying to US firms this cycle, do you really have to draw out why you would prefer a US over a MC firm in the written part of your application, or just mention it at interview?
(For context, as I am non-law I was not eligible to apply for US firms last year)
(For context, as I am non-law I was not eligible to apply for US firms last year)
In my experience, it is okay to apply without a VS from anywhere. I am a year removed from applying though, so do double check their approach with grad rec
Jessica Booker
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- Aug 1, 2019
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no - sometimes the MC and US comparisons are pretty weak/not true anyway where they are very generalised.
In my experience, it shouldn't be capitalised unless it would be capitalised for another reason. Like "I enjoyed studying geography because..." but "I enjoyed studying English because...". Languages should always be capitalised. I'd capitalise it as the name of your degree and module titles though.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the advice I've been given is less whether you have a VS and more whether you have legal experience. Having spoken to grad recruitment a lot have said the same things, you don't necessarily have to have a VS, but you do need to clearly show you understand what a career in law entails and that it's the career for you. When I was discussing this with one Grad Rec they said the preference for candidates to have done a VS is purely because its a strong indicator that they understand what a TC entails (through the opportunity to do similar tasks) and that they want a career in law. That being said, I've done other legal work experience and I have a role in legal at the moment, and I've been encouraged to apply for TCs.
Obviously whilst saying all of the above I think from a numbers perspective, a lot of firms hire more of their trainees through VS than through direct TC applications and the odds seem higher if you go down this route. I think it's worthwhile doing a mix if you can. I know my current role means I won't have much time to do VS so I've only applied to firms I'm super passionate about or have a small intake. Where firms have larger intakes and offer direct TC applications I will be applying via the direct route (even though I don't have a VS on the old CV!
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- May 4, 2020
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Correct me if I'm wrong but the advice I've been given is less whether you have a VS and more whether you have legal experience. Having spoken to grad recruitment a lot have said the same things, you don't necessarily have to have a VS, but you do need to clearly show you understand what a career in law entails and that it's the career for you. When I was discussing this with one Grad Rec they said the preference for candidates to have done a VS is purely because its a strong indicator that they understand what a TC entails (through the opportunity to do similar tasks) and that they want a career in law. That being said, I've done other legal work experience and I have a role in legal at the moment, and I've been encouraged to apply for TCs.
Obviously whilst saying all of the above I think from a numbers perspective, a lot of firms hire more of their trainees through VS than through direct TC applications and the odds seem higher if you go down this route. I think it's worthwhile doing a mix if you can. I know my current role means I won't have much time to do VS so I've only applied to firms I'm super passionate about or have a small intake. Where firms have larger intakes and offer direct TC applications I will be applying via the direct route (even though I don't have a VS on the old CV!
I’d agree with you for the most part: firms want previous legal experience - but generally they want previous corporate experience. Most non vac scheme legal experience that an average second year university student is going to have is a fortnight making coffee in a high street firm - hardly relevant experience .
Naturally, if you’ve worked as a paralegal, or done mini pupillages, or interned at the ICC or whatever, then that counts as serious prior legal experience. However, again, most second and third year students - at whom the vast majority of the recruitment is targeting - won’t have done that. You have a role in legal, which instantly puts you in a very different category to a student. You can demonstrate proper legal experience, they can’t.
What I’m trying to get at is that there’s a world of difference between “I work in the legal sphere already (paralegal, legal secretary, whatever) and am applying for a TC without a VS” and “I’m a student/graduate who doesn’t have a VS, and is applying for TCs”. Since most people applying fall into the student category, it’s just a very different set of circumstances.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the advice I've been given is less whether you have a VS and more whether you have legal experience. Having spoken to grad recruitment a lot have said the same things, you don't necessarily have to have a VS, but you do need to clearly show you understand what a career in law entails and that it's the career for you. When I was discussing this with one Grad Rec they said the preference for candidates to have done a VS is purely because its a strong indicator that they understand what a TC entails (through the opportunity to do similar tasks) and that they want a career in law. That being said, I've done other legal work experience and I have a role in legal at the moment, and I've been encouraged to apply for TCs.
Obviously whilst saying all of the above I think from a numbers perspective, a lot of firms hire more of their trainees through VS than through direct TC applications and the odds seem higher if you go down this route. I think it's worthwhile doing a mix if you can. I know my current role means I won't have much time to do VS so I've only applied to firms I'm super passionate about or have a small intake. Where firms have larger intakes and offer direct TC applications I will be applying via the direct route (even though I don't have a VS on the old CV!
Absolutely agree Lydia! Grad rec, usually, just want to see sound reasoning for why commercial law, and that reasoning can come from lots of different experiences and career trajectories (so with some firms even legal experience is not a prerequisite, if you’re able to pull together a well reasoned motivation answer)
Hey guys, I got a vac scheme interview with HSF! Does anyone know good resources to use to prepare for the on for the scenario based part of the interview. Have looked at TCLA interview experiences which has been v v useful. They are doing two scenario based interviews for winter vac this year
Heya, congrats on the interview! I've got the same one and just as stumped I'll be honest, it's my first AC. Where did you find the interview experiences?
Same to you!
Interview experiences here
https://www.thecorporatelawacademy.com/experience/herbert-smith-freehills-interview/
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