2020-21 Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion

[tk166]

I disagree. If you look at conversion rates following first year schemes for law firms, many people on first year schemes don't actually manage to secure vac schemes. You definitely still have a good chance. I didn't know the first thing about commercial law in first year, didn't do any open days let alone first year schemes, so I really wouldn't see that as a disadvantage in any way.

Yeah of course, I mean I’m in final year and didn’t attend a single event until last july and have received multiple vac scheme offers so its very very possible. What I meant with what I said was that in the future the firms will have to somehow differentiate between excellent candidates since competition will only increase and this is one of the ways of doing so that other industries have chosen to use is all

 

[CareerChanger]

No. A lot of firms are not moving to the SQE until 2024 as far as I am aware.

Firms who sponsor the LPC will provide an equivalent sponsorship for the SQE, depending on how they are preferring to train people. Some people are learning on the job, some people are only doing SQE1 before a TC, some firms are saying you have to pass SQE 1 and 2 before starting a TC.

I get confused about where this leaves non-law graduates who are looking at having to do a conversion. Would this year's cohort be a GDL, subsequent years a conversion course incorporating SQE?

 

[smallstepsbigdreams]

Anyone applying/applied to Debevoise?

I did! Has anyone heard back after sending their application back in Jan?

 

[NA27]

Hi everyone, just wanted a bit of advice.

I am currently waiting on replies from 3 firms (Latham, W&C, and Cooley) for their vac scheme (all post app). However, I was recently offered a full time internship which would commence in June and thus clash with their vac scheme dates. Would it be okay to email the firms and ask for a response? I need to respond to my internship offer by the 24th feb latest.

 

[Jessica Booker]

So what will happen to those that have already done the LPC before applying to firms?

You would be exempt for SQE stage 1 and so you would just need to pass SQE stage 2 at whatever time the individual firm felt appropriate. This might be pre starting, this may be during your training contract.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I get confused about where this leaves non-law graduates who are looking at having to do a conversion. Would this year's cohort be a GDL, subsequent years a conversion course incorporating SQE?

Non law graduates will have until December 2021 to start the GDL. If you haven’t started a course by this time, you will have to take the SQE.

As part of preparing for the SQE you could take a more substantial prep course to get you clued up on all things needed. This prep doesn’t have to be a full year’s worth of study though. You could even choose to be privately tutored on the matter, rather than attending a course.

A lot of institutions will just rebrand PGDLs/MAs into SQE prep courses, but will ensure they have a postgraduate qualification to them so that people could apply for PG funding/student visas/post-graduate work visas though.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi everyone, just wanted a bit of advice.

I am currently waiting on replies from 3 firms (Latham, W&C, and Cooley) for their vac scheme (all post app). However, I was recently offered a full time internship which would commence in June and thus clash with their vac scheme dates. Would it be okay to email the firms and ask for a response? I need to respond to my internship offer by the 24th feb latest.

You are unlikely to be interviewed before the 24th Feb for any of these firms if you are waiting back post app. You could accept your internship and the renege though if you secured better opportunities with these firms.

 

[E.A]

You would be exempt for SQE stage 1 and so you would just need to pass SQE stage 2 at whatever time the individual firm felt appropriate. This might be pre starting, this may be during your training contract.

Oh wow, what exactly is stage 2? I believe this is similar to the "skills" part of the LPC such as drafting, advocacy etc? Is this only if I start a TC in 2023 and after?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Oh wow, what exactly is stage 2? I believe this is similar to the "skills" part of the LPC such as drafting, advocacy etc? Is this only if I start a TC in 2023 and after?

No - you are exempt from the SQE stage 1 even before 2023. It is why some people who have completed the LPC are looking into SQE job opportunities now as technically they could qualify before a 2023 training contract has even started.

More info on SQE stage 2 can be found here:

Assessment information | SQE | Solicitors Regulation Authority

Find out more about the assessment specifics, and learn about taking them in Welsh. Get access to sample questions for both SQE1 and SQE2.

www.sra.org.uk

 

[Kola]

Anyone else really struggling with keeping up to date with university work? As if it wasn't hard enough to stay focused during corona, the fact that you have to dedicate so much time to VIs, ACs, Applications, Tests just means the backlog of university work you have to do keeps increasing exponentially.

 

[Oxdart]

I did - I’m a penultimate year non-law student and was successful in securing a TC with CC. Although they have priority candidates, they do say that if your application is good enough they will find a way to consider you even if you don’t fall into the priority group. I know three other non-priority candidates (2/3 are postgrads) who were invited to CC’s AC for the TC as well, so they’re definitely not being discriminatory like I’ve seen people say.

I'm sorry but this is not a good excuse for what essentially seems like age discrimination on the part of CC. Perhaps not legally, but absolutely so morally.

The fact that they accept some people who are older is no excuse for having a policy that systematically disadvantages older applicants. Their own wording on the website strongly suggests non-priority, or older, applicants have to be much better than the priority candidates to be considered. So, older applicants have a higher bar. That is discriminatory.

Now, some people say oh but there could be older undergrads so technically it is not discrimination. I am not a lawyer (but I suspect even the law would look at the discriminatory impact of the policy and not just the 'intent') but morally speaking that is a baseless defence. 95%+ of their priority group are younger than their non-priority group so there is clearly a discriminatory impact on older applicants. An older applicant applying to CC has every reason to believe they will be at a disadvantage. Many will be turned off from applying right there.

I have no dog in this fight. I did not apply to CC and would not have wanted to even if they did not have this policy (they are an amazing firm in many ways but just not my cup of tea) But as future lawyers we, even more than others, should care about equality and age should surely be treated as a protected characteristic just like race, gender or faith. If there was a policy that clearly disadvantaged people who had one of those latter characteristics, even if the policy was targeting something else, we would rightly be worried. We should be worried here too.

Why? Age discrimination is an increasing problem as a whole host of industries are transformed by tech and stereotypes about age and technical capabilities bleed into hiring/promotion decisions. One would have thought a law firm like CC would have paid some attention to this.

Putting aside what is right (and legal) for a bit, and acknowledging that every private company gets to decide what is smart and the market will reward/punish it accordingly, this decision to prioritize younger applicants will probably hurt CC in the long run. People who are more mature and have had a chance to think through their options will likely stick to law longer than someone who was tied into a TC at 18. What of the transferrable skills that career changers can bring? By basically signalling to these groups that their applications will be deprioritized, CC is ruling itself out of the running for these candidates (yes I know every firm had their choice of amazing candidates but they are systematically ruling out big groups with quite different skills and temperaments).

So just on the business case alone this seems like a very strange decision but the more important point is a law firm of all places should not have such a discriminatory policy even if they can 'technically' get away with it by finding the right loophole etc. The morality of their move is frankly quite damning. The legality of it I am looking forward to exploring as I start my law studies but I will be very disappointed if I find the law would allow for this kind of behaviour.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hey fellow Italian, yes I have friends who are trainee solicitors and are not paid.

In the UK, that would be illegal. Your friends should not be working unpaid for two years. It should be reported to the law society and the SRA.

 

[E.A]

No - you are exempt from the SQE stage 1 even before 2023. It is why some people who have completed the LPC are looking into SQE job opportunities now as technically they could qualify before a 2023 training contract has even started.

More info on SQE stage 2 can be found here:

Assessment information | SQE | Solicitors Regulation Authority

Find out more about the assessment specifics, and learn about taking them in Welsh. Get access to sample questions for both SQE1 and SQE2.

www.sra.org.uk

Thank you, I will read into this. Just to clarify, if I have done the LPC and I start a TC this year or in 2022 do I still need to take Stage 2 SQE tests? As in, everyone who will start a TC after the introduction of the SQE (1 Sept 2021) will have to take it regardless of having completed the LPC or not?!

 

[jasonweee]

I literally haven't heard back from anyone in 4 weeks

 

[Cantab_95]

Is there a disadvantage to getting older as each cycle passes? Oxdart raises an interesting point with regard to CC, but I wonder if this is starting to bleed into the industry as a whole

 

[Andrew M]

Anyone else really struggling with keeping up to date with university work? As if it wasn't hard enough to stay focused during corona, the fact that you have to dedicate so much time to VIs, ACs, Applications, Tests just means the backlog of university work you have to do keeps increasing exponentially.

Yes, this year I have consistently felt like I'm on the backfoot. This week I had a VI and assignment due yesterday, a proposal due today, a VI due tomorrow and an AC on Friday. I'm getting through it but having to put off other work (reading for another module, dissertation) to get it all done.

But it won't be forever - just stay calm and carry on!

 

[whisperingrock]

Is there a disadvantage to getting older as each cycle passes? Oxdart raises an interesting point with regard to CC, but I wonder if this is starting to bleed into the industry as a whole

I doubt it. The average age of qualification just keeps inching upwards.

 

[thewaythecookiecrumbles]

Thank you, I will read into this. Just to clarify, if I have done the LPC and I start a TC this year or in 2022 do I still need to take Stage 2 SQE tests? As in, everyone who will start a TC after the introduction of the SQE (1 Sept 2021) will have to take it regardless of having completed the LPC or not?!

Just adding to this. Does this also mean that there'll essentially be a time limit until we have to have secured a TC by? If not by year x for example then we have to do the SQE 2? @Jessica Booker

 

[manifestingaTC]

Has anyone heard from Osborne Clarke yet?

 

[Oxdart]

I doubt it. The average age of qualification just keeps inching upwards.

What is the average age actually? Is there an industry data source for stuff like this?