2020-21 Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion

[Celestie]

I don't know about law, but my academic department (RG uni) does not give out anything above 80% unless its 'publishable'... so you can guess how many people don't get firsts etc but who are still super academic and smart

 

[sl399]

Congrats!! On their website they mention summer VS only so I'm assuming June/July time? Could I ask for which office you applied for and when you submitted your VI?

thank you London office and submitted the VI on 29 Jan

 

[LegalNim]

So law firms don’t care what uni you attended to, but the individual grades in question? @Jessica Booker as I haven’t seen much people from non-RG unis secure TCs and I wondered why? (I’m from a RG uni but I always wondered this).

I remember this EXACT debate/conversation on here a year ago.
I went to a high-ranking but non-RG uni and truthfully, very very few people wanted to go to commercial law. Of the people from my course, I can only count four of us who were applying for TCs and I'm the last one left without one (ouch!) - and one went to a MC firm. I think that potentially there's an argument that people who choose a prestigious university are more inclined to choose a prestigious career path, perhaps the links between firms and RG universities are stronger so those students have more exposure so are more likely to apply, maybe there's something in those universities that direct students towards certain career paths. I don't think this is something we'll know for sure.
I've truthfully never felt detrimented by not attending an RG university - I had offers from two with lower/equal grade requirements but chose my university because I was a high-performance athlete and the sports facilities at my university were far superior. I've never had a grad recruiter even mention my university and, when I've explicitly asked whether I should justify on my application why I chose a non-RG uni, I've been told not to - it's a waste of words to justify something that they don't care about.

 

[rose63]

I don't know about law, but my academic department (RG uni) does not give out anything above 82% unless its 'publishable'... so you can guess how many people don't get firsts etc but who are still super academic and smart

Mine's the same - they class anything above 80% as publishable, and said that before the last few years they didn't ever award above 75 (except for anything very, very exceptional)

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker

I have to get in on this grade/university debate. I am always intrigued to talk about this topic. Anything I say is my opinion and not intended to attack anyone - I just love debating lol.

I agree with @Tarnjeet: Do law firms not look at where you have got a university degree GRADE from?

If no, that does not make sense for one second. It cannot be disputed that a 1st from some universities is (much) more difficult than other universities. I have seen some people (not to name names) at the same university studying law achieving ridiculously high grades in some law modules. I am not talking 70-75%, I am talking 85-90%. This begs the question of the credibility of the degree and the grades they are dishing out. Not to name my university, but academic staff once said they have awarded 1/2 80-85% in the past 10 years, yet some students are given multiple ridiculously high grades. That does not make sense one bit.

Also, lets be honest, a 1st from Oxbridge (let me make it clear that I DONT attend Oxford or Cambridge) is more difficult to attain than in other universities. I know some friends who do law there and I looked at their work load and it is aghhhhhh.

I don't understand and never will how this part of the application process is assessed.

Is a degree from Oxbridge more difficult to obtain? I am not convinced it is more difficult.

It may be more intellectually difficult. But considering you have far stronger support mechanisms at Oxbridge, including tutorials that are often one-on-one or in very small groups, it could be argued it is easier to obtain a strong grade in an Oxbridge degree because of the mechanisms in place to get you there. Constant, regular and detailed feedback from your first week undoubtedly allow you to learn more, quicker.

So maybe the student doing the same course at Reading or Oxford Brookes has to work harder to achieve the same grade where they have to be more self sufficient? And that could be why it is more difficult.

Just my opinion on the matter anyway.

 

[Jacob Miller]

Hi @Jacob Miller,
I also own my own business, it is a gym clothing brand for women. Just wondering if you have any advice to use this in applications. Would this be suitable as a ‘what makes you unique’ or ‘why is your application different?’ at all?
I would really appreciate any advice with regards to this!
Thanks
Bailey

Great question! I think the skills we learn from running businesses come in handy across myriad questions. I've personally touched on different elements of this in questions such as:
- why me
- why my app should stand out
- strengths (research, leadership, resilience, success, failure (learning therefrom), time management, organisation etc)

What I would encourage you to do is look really holistically at all the different elements that go into running a business and break down the individual skills that each component needs. You can then essentially 'reverse engineer' this information to fit different questions!

 

[Celestie]

Mine's the same - they class anything above 80% as publishable, and said that before the last few years they didn't ever award above 75 (except for anything very, very exceptional)

Yeah... so I have been shocked to see some people getting like 90% in some law modules (which is great) when that's basically unattainable at my uni. Very interesting though!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Yeah... so I have been shocked to see some people getting like 90% in some law modules (which is great) when that's basically unattainable at my uni. Very interesting though!

This is very rare and usually only in the “admin” modules in first year. The idea there are lots of unis giving out loads of 80%+ grades for law degrees is yet another myth that likes to get perpetuated in opinionated conversations.

 

[NSinger]

I don't know about law, but my academic department (RG uni) does not give out anything above 80% unless its 'publishable'... so you can guess how many people don't get firsts etc but who are still super academic and smart

Same at my Uni (non-RG)

 

[Tarnjeet]

@Jessica Booker

I have to get in on this grade/university debate. I am always intrigued to talk about this topic. Anything I say is my opinion and not intended to attack anyone - I just love debating lol.

I agree with @Tarnjeet: Do law firms not look at where you have got a university degree GRADE from?

If no, that does not make sense for one second. It cannot be disputed that a 1st from some universities is (much) more difficult than other universities. I have seen some people (not to name names) at the same university studying law achieving ridiculously high grades in some law modules. I am not talking 70-75%, I am talking 85-90%. This begs the question of the credibility of the degree and the grades they are dishing out. Not to name my university, but academic staff once said they have awarded 1/2 80-85% in the past 10 years, yet some students are given multiple ridiculously high grades. That does not make sense one bit.

Also, lets be honest, a 1st from Oxbridge (let me make it clear that I DONT attend Oxford or Cambridge) is more difficult to attain than in other universities. I know some friends who do law there and I looked at their work load and it is aghhhhhh.

I don't understand and never will how this part of the application process is assessed.

Are degree standards the same at all universities? - HEPI

This guest blog has been kindly written for us by Dr Andrew Hindmarsh, who is an analyst for the Complete University Guide and also Head of Planning at the University of Nottingham. Any views expressed in this article are those of the Complete University Guide and do not necessarily reflect...

www.hepi.ac.uk

This study pretty much confirms this as well- in short there is definitely some correlation between lower ucas points and higher probability of getting a first-I.e university with lower entrance requirements are giving our more firsts. So it’s not really fair that firms don’t look this in the same they contextualise a level results.

 

[whisperingrock]

This is very rare and usually only in the “admin” modules in first year. The idea there are lots of unis giving out loads of 80%+ grades for law degrees is yet another myth that likes to get perpetuated in opinionated conversations.

I know that the plural of anecdote isn't data, but that doesn't track when it comes to the people I've tutored. Those who I help out in non-RGs tend to get much higher grades for the same quality of work than those at say LSE or UCL.

 

[LegalNim]

I don't know about law, but my academic department (RG uni) does not give out anything above 80% unless its 'publishable'... so you can guess how many people don't get firsts etc but who are still super academic and smart

Same rule at my non-RG uni for anything above 80%

 

[Jessica Booker]

Same at my Uni (non-RG)

The 80% or 90% cap is pretty consistent across unis for social science and arts degrees.

People need to get rid of this idea that RG unis do things one way and non-RG unis do it another. It really isn’t that black and white.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I know that the plural of anecdote isn't data, but that doesn't track when it comes to the people I've tutored. Those who I help out in non-RGs tend to get much higher grades for the same quality of work than those at say LSE or UCL.

And yet UCL are in the top five universities who award firsts.

 

[Celestie]

This is very rare and usually only in the “admin” modules in first year. The idea there are lots of unis giving out loads of 80%+ grades for law degrees is yet another myth that likes to get perpetuated in opinionated conversations.

Interesting, I would say I have seen this on 9/10+ LinkedIns I have come across - again, amazing marks but made me think I had no chance.

 

[LS12]

I came from a non-Russel group and there was the same approach to grades.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Interesting, I would say I have seen this on 9/10+ LinkedIns I have come across - again, amazing marks but made me think I had no chance.

People only put certain things on LinkedIn. It’s rarely an accurate insight into what’s going on in reality.

Not exactly like many people shout about failed modules or that low 2.2 on linkedIn.

 

[FM302989]

My two cents, does it matter? And if it does matter to a firm, then shame on them.

I just don't think it should be something people worry about. Work hard, do your best in studies, build up your profile and be good to each other

 

[whisperingrock]

And yet UCL are in the top five universities who award firsts.

I wasn't arguing that. I was arguing that standards are higher. The fact that UCL awards a high number of firsts has nothing to do with higher achievers in non-RGs being able to get 80+ in certain modules by virtue of their universities assessment standard.

 

[Jessica Booker]

My two cents, does it matter? And if it does matter to a firm, then shame on them.

I just don't think it should be something people worry about. Work hard, do your best in studies, build up your profile and be good to each other