2020-21 Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion

[Kubed]

Thank you! Yeah there were definitely a few reasons for last year's post-VS rejection so I'll go through them here:

- The main reason the firm gave was that I lacked office experience so basically although the feedback was positive, they could tell that I didn't really know what it would be like to work in a law firm and I think they were perhaps a bit worried that I idealised it and didn't quite know what I was getting myself into. I showed a huge interest in pro bono and ESG activities but perhaps not enough in the things I'd be doing day-to-day. So I think with that, obviously it has been hard to get office experience this year, but the TCLA stuff on how law firms operate as a business and networking with as many trainees, associates etc. has been really useful to gain an insight into what it's actually like.

- Secondly, I don't think I was massively confident with it being virtual. I'm normally very sociable but because it was online I became a little bit too passive and really got on with my trainee buddy yet didn't get to know that many people across the firm. This was obviously a big mistake and proves that you get out of it what you put in, especially with it being online. A fair bit of the vac scheme was done in big UK-wide Teams meetings too so I was perhaps less comfortable speaking up in that environment, but have gone out of my way to do that recently so it should come easier this time round.

- In the work I took quite an academic approach and therefore didn't always give the client what they were really after. So this time I'll definitely remember my audience and be concise to make sure I'm actually adding value. I started volunteering at Citizens Advice in September so I think that direct client contact will really help.

- Also, I guess to be honest I was quite complacent as I knew the firm recruited the vast majority of trainees from the VS so I wasn't massively proactive in always putting my best foot forward, I maybe just assumed it would come through. But again, I think this is something that is more easily done when it's virtual. And it was a 3 week online scheme so it was harder to keep the motivation remotely for that period of time, but now I've experienced that rejection the motivation will definitely be there!

The experience was a positive one though and I certainly feel more ready to secure a TC now whereas before I think it would have been pretty lucky. Hope this helps!

Wow thanks for such a detailed reply. Sounds like you've done a lot of reflection and know exactly what to do to smash the schemes this time around to get that TC offer!!

 

[Jessica Booker]

I agree. The lack of investment given to HR/GR departments, especially in big law firms, is a red flag to me for obvious reasons and looks like they couldn’t give a toss about their employees.

To be fair, it’s the wrong type of investment. Law firms spend a crazy amount of money on things they shouldn’t (law society sponsorship being one of the worst offenders). They could easily pay that to someone to give feedback, but given law is also competitive from an employer’s perspective (eg loads of employers recruiting from a relatively small talent pool), firms will over spend on promoting themselves just to ensure every now and then they stand out from the crowd.

 

[Jessica Booker]

That's going to feel like an awfully long time to hear back! I'm kind of hoping they'll hold the actual scheme in July or something (considering I had to push one of my exams to August due to bereavement).

@Jessica Booker - is it likely that a firm would take circumstances like this seriously if they clashed with a VS?

If exams clashed with a vac scheme, there wouldn’t be much a firm could do unfortunately. I am sure they would be as accommodating as possible, especially if there were mitigating circumstances, but I suspect at best they would just defer you to the next scheme (eg a winter scheme or the next year’s summer scheme) at best or just transfer you over to a TC recruitment process.

 

[Cho]

Anyone still waiting to hear back from Stephenson Harwood post-app?

 

[Anon 11031]

To be fair, it’s the wrong type of investment. Law firms spend a crazy amount of money on things they shouldn’t (law society sponsorship being one of the worst offenders). They could easily pay that to someone to give feedback, but given law is also competitive from an employer’s perspective (eg loads of employers recruiting from a relatively small talent pool), firms will over spend on promoting themselves just to ensure every now and then they stand out from the crowd.

Can absolutely vouch for the point about law societies. When I was president of a RG law soc, firms would actively seek out dropping thousands just for you to promote their presence across campus in the most minuscule ways.

 

[Anon 11031]

If exams clashed with a vac scheme, there wouldn’t be much a firm could do unfortunately. I am sure they would be as accommodating as possible, especially if there were mitigating circumstances, but I suspect at best they would just defer you to the next scheme (eg a winter scheme or the next year’s summer scheme) at best or just transfer you over to a TC recruitment process.

Thank you as always. Would you say it's worth disclosing why exams have been pushed back in these circumstances? In the case of DAC Beachcroft I think their VS forms part of their recruitment process, so I guess it's more likely they'd just put me on the one the following summer.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Can absolutely vouch for the point about law societies. When I was president of a RG law soc, firms would actively seek out dropping thousands just for you to promote their presence across campus in the most minuscule ways.

And that is nothing compared to the 6-7 figures sponsorships they give academics or faculties 🤯🤯🤯

 

[Jessica Booker]

Thank you as always. Would you say it's worth disclosing why exams have been pushed back in these circumstances? In the case of DAC Beachcroft I think their VS forms part of their recruitment process, so I guess it's more likely they'd just put me on the one the following summer.

Yes - I would, just because the assumption could be that you just failed through lack of effort/time management etc. Explaining mitigating circumstances that have led to the exam deferral will be important to disclose IMO.

 

[Anon 11031]

Yes - I would, just because the assumption could be that you just failed through lack of effort/time management etc. Explaining mitigating circumstances that have led to the exam deferral will be important to disclose IMO.

I'll do that, should it ever become a problem - I didn't want them to assume I had failed. Do you think it would be reasonable for me to ask (if they pushed my VS to the summer of the following year) if I could still be considered for the TC for 2023? It's very important to me and my circumstances to not push the actual start date back.

 

[LeilaScott]

Any news from Reed Smith?

 

[Jessica Booker]

I'll do that, should it ever become a problem - I didn't want them to assume I had failed. Do you think it would be reasonable for me to ask (if they pushed my VS to the summer of the following year) if I could still be considered for the TC for 2023? It's very important to me and my circumstances to not push the actual start date back.

It’s difficult to know whether they will be able to hold a TC spot for a year unfortunately - could be very difficult/impossible, could be straight forward for them. You’d just need to have this conversation.

 

[Matt_96]

To be fair, it’s the wrong type of investment. Law firms spend a crazy amount of money on things they shouldn’t (law society sponsorship being one of the worst offenders). They could easily pay that to someone to give feedback, but given law is also competitive from an employer’s perspective (eg loads of employers recruiting from a relatively small talent pool), firms will over spend on promoting themselves just to ensure every now and then they stand out from the crowd.

Ironically, this firm spent next to no money on promoting itself to graduates. It has no presence on any of the 'major' legal recruitment websites aimed at grads (chambers student, Legal Cheek or Lex) - in fact the only details about the firm's trainee program are on a very small (and sparsely detailed) page on its website. Oh and it expects you to have completed/be in the process of completing the LPC. So make of that what you will!

 

[FM302989]

Ironically, this firm spent next to no money on promoting itself to graduates. It has no presence on any of the 'major' legal recruitment websites aimed at grads (chambers student, Legal Cheek or Lex) - in fact the only details about the firm's trainee program are on a very small (and sparsely detailed) page on its website. Oh and it expects you to have completed/be in the process of completing the LPC. So make of that what you will!

My friend sent them a rejection email mimicking their template. It wished them all the best in their recruitment process

 

[Pallatablelawyer]

Hi Guys, I got a White & Case TC offer. For those of you who may no me.. this has not been easy. I hope to make a longer post soon, but I just want to say this took 3 years.. 2nd year, 3rd year, LLM .. finished that and now we are here.. idk what the future holds and I’ll let you know more about the terrible circumstances I’ve faced throughout these times.. but keep going.. keep believing !

 

[Anon 11031]

Hi Guys, I got a White & Case TC offer. For those of you who may no me.. this has not been easy. I hope to make a longer post soon, but I just want to say this took 3 years.. 2nd year, 3rd year, LLM .. finished that and now we are here.. idk what the future holds and I’ll let you know more about the terrible circumstances I’ve faced throughout these times.. but keep going.. keep believing !

That's absolutely incredible. Take time this week to celebrate! Well done!

 

[FM302989]

Hi Guys, I got a White & Case TC offer. For those of you who may no me.. this has not been easy. I hope to make a longer post soon, but I just want to say this took 3 years.. 2nd year, 3rd year, LLM .. finished that and now we are here.. idk what the future holds and I’ll let you know more about the terrible circumstances I’ve faced throughout these times.. but keep going.. keep believing !

Stories like this hold more value to me than those undergrads who apply on a whim and get the lucky offer.

Huge congratulations! You've done the work and you've earned it!

 

[jan28]

Hi Guys, I got a White & Case TC offer. For those of you who may no me.. this has not been easy. I hope to make a longer post soon, but I just want to say this took 3 years.. 2nd year, 3rd year, LLM .. finished that and now we are here.. idk what the future holds and I’ll let you know more about the terrible circumstances I’ve faced throughout these times.. but keep going.. keep believing !

🥺 massive congratulations!! your perseverance is inspiring.

 

[Alex3107]

Stories like this hold more value than those undergrads who apply on a whim and get the lucky offer.

Huge congratulations! You've done the work and you've earned it!

I think that it's never good to devalue someone else's achievement - the process is so so tough, it is hard to believe those who make it are just 'lucky'. I am one of those undergrads who applied impulsively, without thinking I actually stood a chance, but that doesn't mean I didn't work hard as hell for my offers, and there are probably so many other students like me in the same situation. Mofin's achievement is incredible, but we can acknowledge that without putting other people down. At least in my opinion

 

[FM302989]

I think that it's never good to devalue someone else's achievement - the process is so so tough, it is hard to believe those who make it are just 'lucky'. I am one of those undergrads who applied impulsively, without thinking I actually stood a chance, but that doesn't mean I didn't work hard as hell for my offers, and there are probably so many other students like me in the same situation. Mofin's achievement is incredible, but we can acknowledge that without putting other people down. At least in my opinion

Didn't put "other people down".

Please see the TCLA's latest newsletter for what I'm getting at.

 

[Pallatablelawyer]

I think that it's never good to devalue someone else's achievement - the process is so so tough, it is hard to believe those who make it are just 'lucky'. I am one of those undergrads who applied impulsively, without thinking I actually stood a chance, but that doesn't mean I didn't work hard as hell for my offers, and there are probably so many other students like me in the same situation. Mofin's achievement is incredible, but we can acknowledge that without putting other people down. At least in my opinion

I super appreciate the congratulations! I also agree with this too.. It’s really hard regardless of getting it at undergrad or post graduation.. honestly speaking I think it’s a mixture of luck, perseverance and hardwork.. I find that people in undergrad who get it have usually put in the time earlier on life ..(even if it looks lucky, they could’ve been building the social capital needed since before 6th form) I put in my time a lot later due to a variety of mitigating circumstances.