2020-21 Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion

[Jacob Miller]

Thanks for your response! I have a few personal experiences which were very difficult to overcome but I’m worried how they would come across since they are mental health related and could show me in a bad light and also they were a few years ago so I am unsure if that would be appropriate?

Feel free to DM me about this if you'd like to chat in more depth confidentially.

 

[M777]

Has anyone done an AC with Dechert in the past, and remembers roughly how long they take to get back to you after it?

 

[Jessica Booker]

Considering most graduate recruitment and lateral recruitment teams in the City seem to barely know or understand immigration rules for foreign applicants half the time, I wouldn't be shocked if this recruitment policy wasn't fully vetted.

Blame the government for that one. They changed the immigration process and then didn't publish any guidance on it until the second week of December, and when it was published it missed a lot of information. The new rules were due to come in less than three weeks later.

I get you aren't the biggest fan of grad rec, but there are lots of people actually working their arses off to try and do the best they can. As I have said before, with Grad Rec you are a jack of all trades and typically a master of none. Doesn't mean you don't know what you are doing though.

A discrimination case is one of the highest risks you have as a grad recruiter (probably second to data protection/GDPR breaches). Its Grad Rec 101 to reduce your risks of that, and in a law firm it will have been considered thoroughly.

 

[Rob93]

@Jessica Booker re: foreign applicants, what should be put in for 'Do you have/require the right to work in the UK?' on vac scheme applications? I do currently have the right to work for vac scheme purposes under my student visa, but it's hard to say what my position will be when it comes time for the training contract.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Trying to do my Simmons and Simmons VI today but the server has been down since early afternoon...I was given seven days to complete it and deadline is tomorrow, is it too late to email the firm regarding the situation and ask for extension? I don't know if it's gonna look bad on me as I didn't do it sooner and leave it to today (though it's because I am juggling this with a demanding full time job...) @Jessica Booker any insights on this kind of situations from recruiter perspective?

I'd try it again this evening, and if you still can't get in, then contact the firm and say it was down for at least X-Y time, and that you could only do it at the weekend due to work commitments.

 

[Jessica Booker]

@Jessica Booker re: foreign applicants, what should be put in for 'Do you have/require the right to work in the UK?' on vac scheme applications? I do currently have the right to work for vac scheme purposes under my student visa, but it's hard to say what my position will be when it comes time for the training contract.

Is it just a drop down menu or a free text box?

 

[Rob93]

Is it just a drop down menu or a free text box?

Y/N, tick-one layout (this is on Apply4Law).

 

[Bugsy Malone]

Possibly - but equally knowing how applications are submitted, the system will only get busier up until the deadline and if people have been struggling to get on, the system is likely to only get more traffic rather than less.

Do you think it's likely a firm would extend their deadline due to the site being down since 3:30pm or just hard luck?!

 

[Jessica Booker]

Y/N, tick-one layout (this is on Apply4Law).

As it is for a VS, just tick yes.

It will be pretty obvious in most cases that you are an international student on a student visa.

They are going to have to change those questions anyway as with the post-graduate visa coming in, every UK student will have the right to work in the UK after graduating (if they apply for the visa anyway).

 

[NSinger]

Has anyone who applied to BCLP in December heard back? Been over 2 months now 😂

 

[Jessica Booker]

Do you think it's likely a firm would extend their deadline due to the site being down since 3:30pm or just hard luck?!

It will depend on the firm and how many applications they are potentially "missing".

If they thought they were missing out on talent, they would extend it, but I expect many may look at their application numbers and pipeline and say "tough luck"

 

[whisperingrock]

Blame the government for that one. They changed the immigration process and then didn't publish any guidance on it until the second week of December, and when it was published it missed a lot of information. The new rules were due to come in less than three weeks later.

I get you aren't the biggest fan of grad rec, but there are lots of people actually working their arses off to try and do the best they can. As I have said before, with Grad Rec you are a jack of all trades and typically a master of none. Doesn't mean you don't know what you are doing though.

A discrimination case is one of the highest risks you have as a grad recruiter (probably second to data protection/GDPR breaches). Its Grad Rec 101 to reduce your risks of that, and in a law firm it will have been considered thoroughly.

No I'm going to blame the law firms because a lack of knowledge of immigration matters was the case even before the new set of regulations. As someone who has been discriminated against as a foreign applicant, I am very concious of the fact that law firms do get things wrong.

I am also not saying unequivocally that CC is discriminating against certain applicants, just that waving away the idea that they could be is innapropriately dismissive. Maintaining that there definitely isn't discrimination because law firms work hard to get it right isn't a valid argument.

I also looked into it and failed to find any case law regarding university year discrimination in the UK. The only similar case I found was a US case that said that recruiting entry level applicants mainly or only through a university scheme could amount to discrimination on grounds of disparate impact (Rabin v. PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP). Disparate impact is the US counterpart to the UK/EU framework of indirect discrimination. None of us can show whether CC is discriminating one way or another without knowing the actual stats, but to me, the policy is walking and talking like an ageist duck.

 

[Rob93]

As it is for a VS, just tick yes.

It will be pretty obvious in most cases that you are an international student on a student visa.

They are going to have to change those questions anyway as with the post-graduate visa coming in, every UK student will have the right to work in the UK after graduating (if they apply for the visa anyway).

Great, thanks very much!

 

[Jessica Booker]

No I'm going to blame the law firms because a lack of knowledge of immigration matters was the case even before the new set of regulations. As someone who has been discriminated against as a foreign applicant, I am very concious of the fact that law firms do get things wrong.

I am also not saying unequivocally that CC is discriminating against certain applicants, just that waving away the idea that they could be is innapropriately dismissive. Maintaining that there definitely isn't discrimination because law firms work hard to get it right isn't a valid argument.

I also looked into it and failed to find any case law regarding university year discrimination in the UK. The only similar case I found was a US case that said that recruiting entry level applicants mainly or only through a university scheme could amount to discrimination on grounds of disparate impact (Rabin v. PricewaterhouseCoopers LLP). Disparate impact is the US counterpart to the UK/EU framework of indirect discrimination. None of us can show whether CC is discriminating one way or another without knowing the actual stats, but to me, the policy is walking and talking like an ageist duck.

So I assume you were speaking to firms more than 3 years ago on immigration matters? Because that's how long we have been waiting for an update on them, and considering firms recruit 3-4 years inadvance, they are rightfully placed to say "we don't know" when it comes to visa processes throughout that period. Joys of Brexit and a incompetent government.

I am not "waving" away anything - you seem to only read to what you want to into what I post. I definitely didnt say "there definitely isn't discrimination because law firms work hard". You are quick to deem graduate recruiters incompetent and all I am saying is that I think that is unfair - I clearly have personal reasons for thinking that. I find it pretty insulting to both me and a lot of the people I know.

Look up some of the cases on "recent graduate" rulings and you might find some rationale on why employers can do this.

I will bet money on it that CC had a conversation with employment lawyers to say "we are publically going to go out and say this is our policy on recruitment, do you think there is a risk of discrimination" and lawyers, rather than HR will have told them that risk was either minimal or non-existant based on current case law.

It will be interesting to see if anyone does want to test that theory out further by making a claim against them.

 

[NA1998]

I made a huge mistake and I need advice. I sent two last minute applications today and they both had an interests, positions of responsibility and achievements question. I have perfected my answer to this question as it comes up quite frequently and I normally copy and paste it then carefully edit it. However, I have clearly not been careful enough as after mentioning volunteering activities I have left a sentence which says “This leads me to admire MB’s own commitment to pro bono work.” I am gutted as I had worked quite hard and my answers to all other questions were really good. Do I have any options? The applications have been submitted so I cannot edit them. Should I use my university email to resubmit the amended application? Please if anyone has any advice/ prior experience with clumsy mistakes let me know!

 

[whisperingrock]

So I assume you were speaking to firms more than 3 years ago on immigration matters? Because that's how long we have been waiting for an update on them, and considering firms recruit 3-4 years inadvance, they are rightfully placed to say "we don't know" when it comes to visa processes throughout that period. Joys of Brexit and a incompetent government.

I am not "waving" away anything - you seem to only read to what you want to into what I post. I definitely didnt say "there definitely isn't discrimination because law firms work hard". You are quick to deem graduate recruiters incompetent and all I am saying is that I think that is unfair - I clearly have personal reasons for thinking that. I find it pretty insulting to both me and a lot of the people I know.

Look up some of the cases on "recent graduate" rulings and you might find some rationale on why employers can do this.

I will bet money on it that CC had a conversation with employment lawyers to say "we are publically going to go out and say this is our policy on recruitment, do you think there is a risk of discrimination" and lawyers, rather than HR will have told them that risk was either minimal or non-existant based on current case law.

It will be interesting to see if anyone does want to test that theory out further by making a claim against them.

All I can say in response to this is that my saying that law firms and graduate recruitment get things wrong is not an insult and not a value judgement. Only a statement that is supported by my own experiences and those of many people I know. You are free to feel insulted if you want, I understand that people can be sensitive to criticism.

 

[Jessica Booker]

I made a huge mistake and I need advice. I sent two last minute applications today and they both had an interests, positions of responsibility and achievements question. I have perfected my answer to this question as it comes up quite frequently and I normally copy and paste it then carefully edit it. However, I have clearly not been careful enough as after mentioning volunteering activities I have left a sentence which says “This leads me to admire MB’s own commitment to pro bono work.” I am gutted as I had worked quite hard and my answers to all other questions were really good. Do I have any options? The applications have been submitted so I cannot edit them. Should I use my university email to resubmit the amended application? Please if anyone has any advice/ prior experience with clumsy mistakes let me know!

Unfortunately not much you can do. If you apply with another email address you'd just be flagged as a duplicate applicant.

The only way I could see it working, is if you withdrew your current application and then reapplied, but that may not solve everything.

 

[Asil Ahmad]

Has anyone who applied to BCLP in December heard back? Been over 2 months now 😂

I know a few people applied in November and still not heard back for BCLP vacation scheme.

 

[NA1998]

Unfortunately not much you can do. If you apply with another email address you'd just be flagged as a duplicate applicant.

The only way I could see it working, is if you withdrew your current application and then reapplied, but that may not solve everything.

Thank you Jessica!!

 

[Jessica Booker]

All I can say in response to this is that my saying that law firms and graduate recruitment get things wrong is not an insult and not a value judgement. Only a statement that is supported by my own experiences and those of many people I know. You are free to feel insulted if you want, I understand that people can be sensitive to criticism.

And I can understand people have chips on their shoulders about things they have a very skewed opinion of based on their personal experiences.

And I am happy to be "sensitive to criticism" - its a sign that I can understand it, reflect on it and know when people are just being overly rude.