TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25

[B101]

@Andrei Radu @Amma Usman @Ram Sabaratnam

Hi all. I’ve applied to around 15 firms this cycle, had 2 AC’s but didn’t convert any and also completed a vac scheme last year. My only resort is to apply for direct TC’s now.

I’m not sure of how to change my strategy going forward as it seems to be hit or miss with drafting applications/ tests/ interviews. Do you have any tips on developing my commercial awareness or anything to better my strategy for the whole process of direct applications going forward?

 

[Andrei Radu]

Hi @Andrei Radu! Was wondering if you might be able to tag in some posts you’ve done in the past on the kinds of things that differentiates slaughter and may

Hi @camrxc the best resource by far for this should be the updated Slaughter and May law firm profile I wrote for TCLA in the summer. On the forums I discussed two of the firm's distinguishing aspects: its best friends model and its market leader position in public M&A. I will quote them bellow:

Hey @lawyersum I will firstly just caveat the following by mentioning that the subject of the merits of this international strategy is a controversial one. I have analyzed this topic from the perspective of a firm operating this model in a lot of detail when writing TCLA's updated Slaughter and May profile, which you can access here. To give you the headline benefits I identified:

1. Potentially less exposure to run of the mill international work, but more exposure to the most complex cross border mandates in the market: the main rationale for this system is that it is practically impossible to try to obtain top of the market capabilities in every jurisdiction involved in cross-border matters. Some firms are more successful than others, but none operates leading full-service teams everywhere. This would not make sense from a business perspective, as setting up shop in another jurisdiction is very expensive and there are huge discrepancies between the levels of profitability of different legal markets. However, some firms simply did not want to accept the idea that they would have to rely on substandard teams in foreign offices, as this would lead to a delivery of substandard client service. As such, they followed a strategy which involved the creation of a system of network and 'best friends' firms, which are the best independent firms in each major jurisdiction. The idea is these firms will have (i) the flexibility of picking and choosing the firms they work with in every jurisdiction - so if different firms have leading teams in different practice areas, they can choose the one with the most relevant expertise; (ii) can always promise clients the best of the best of legal service across the board; and (iii) can get referral work from the other firms in the network. The significant downside of this model is that it is more administratively burdensome and does not offer the same simplified and quick service as that of a firm with an expanded network of its own offices. Arguably, in terms of pitching for mandates, this means that a firm operating a 'best friends' model will be disadvantaged when trying to win roles on simpler cross-border mandates. At the same time however, best friends firms should have an advantage when pitching for the most complex mandates, as those are the ones for which top quality of legal service everywhere is most pertinent. If you are interested in this type of cross-border work the most, that could be a benefit.
2. Secondment opportunities at the offices of the leading independent US and EU firms: at Slaughter and May, trainees have historically gone on secondments at firms like Cravath (in New York), Hengeler Muller (in Germany), Uria Menedez (in Spain and Portugal), BonelliErede (in Italy), Bredin Prat (in France), and De Brauw Blackstone Westbroek (in Holland). Arguably, experiencing a secondment in the oldest and most established firms in another country is a more interesting and useful professional experience than going on a secondment in the same firm's foreign office.

As for (ii) - if top tier corporate work is of central focus that should work out in your favour, as I know Slaughter and May still considers itself to be the best firm in the market for that. Whether that is actually the case is more debatable; the important factor is that if you make a good argument to that effect then it looks plausible that you would choose Slaughter and May over the others. What could that argument be? Well, firstly, you could focus on the (relatively uncontroversial fact) that Slaughter and May is considered to be the best firm for UK public M&A work, and then explain why public M&A is more attractive to you than private M&A. Alternatively, you could focus on the idea that Slaughter and May arguably has the deepest institutional relationships with UK corporations (for a number of years they advertised that they represent more FTSE 100, 250, and 350 clients; and also of being the default 'boardroom advisor' of UK corporates) and then explain why that kind of market position attracts you. However, I would be research and aim to be able to defend the claim that Slaughter and May will be able to keep its position despite its lack of international offices (particularly in New York, where the other MC firms are heavily investing into) and dwindling best friends network (particularly having increasingly lost its US best friends as they moved into London - Davis Polk a number of years ago, and now Paul, Weiss, and to an extent Cravath as well).

 

[mulan0]

@jta227

Hi guys! Please keep in mind I literally had no strategy for this and I kind of just kept trying until I got something! Also I am very new to jobs and the world of work so I am not sure my approach is necessarily advisable.

There's a couple of ways to go about this. I know some of my friends emailed their CVs to high street firms near them. You could also check on LinkedIn and apply as soon as vacancies are posted. Applying ASAP is good because they start interviewing really early. It's not like TCs.

Having some kind of experience helps, but I know people who got into paralegal roles without prior law firm experience. I have been admin at a law firm though so I am not one of the lucky few. To get my admin law job, instead of just submitting the CV, I called the recruiter and pitched myself. It worked, he got me the interview. Then, I used agencies to apply for paralegal roles. The Law Support Group were pretty good, but again, I had to call them because I kept sending my CVs and no-one was getting back to me. I think if you can have a good chat with someone on the phone, it can speed things up. Also I have been ghosted loads so expect that. Send them a follow-up email and see if anyone comes back. Look for in-house paralegal vacancies too for the major employers in your areas.

Re interview, the standard advice on this forum is probably much better than anything I can come up with 😭😭

Best of luck!!

That’s really helpful thankyou, can I just ask when calling, would you mention a specific vacancy you were interested in? I’ve thought of calling but feel like I’m not sure what I’m saying😅

 

[berocca567]

Does anyone have any Cappfinity advice? Also, does it involve any video element?

 

[Andrei Radu]

@Andrei Radu @Amma Usman @Ram Sabaratnam

Hi all. I’ve applied to around 15 firms this cycle, had 2 AC’s but didn’t convert any and also completed a vac scheme last year. My only resort is to apply for direct TC’s now.

I’m not sure of how to change my strategy going forward as it seems to be hit or miss with drafting applications/ tests/ interviews. Do you have any tips on developing my commercial awareness or anything to better my strategy for the whole process of direct applications going forward?

My advice regarding an ideal applications strategy is to always aim to submit as many high-quality applications as possible. For your case, the first point I will say is that I think you could be making more applications. I know people who have managed to make around 40-50 quality applications by this point in the cycle. While of course this is a bit more on the extreme end of the spectrum, and while the number you will aim at will also depend on your practice area/sector interest and personal time constraints, I do think it is feasible for a highly-motivated applicant to make around 25-30 high quality applications. On a purely statistical basis, that should almost have doubled your chances of securing a TC. Of course, this is not just a numbers game, but it partly a number's game. At the applications stage, I got some of the applications I had put most time and effort in immediately rejected, but got progressed after submitting cover letters I had finished in a single day. Like it or not, the assessment process is not entirely objective, and thus a luck factor comes into play: does a recruiter emphasize criteria you score great in, or criteria you score less well in? This is even more so the case in ACs, which is a game of even smaller margins. As such, I think you want to have as many horses in the race as possible.

At the same time, of course this is not the entire story and that you should also aim to improve quality-wise. I would advise you to take the following steps:

1. Compare your successful and unsuccessful applications and then try to identify any common themes; this should help you to ascertain what are the features of the successful applications that you should seek to integrate in your writing form now on.
2. Compare your applications to model applications from the most successful past applicants you know.
3. If possible, get highly-experienced people to review in depth at least one of your applications. Action their comments and then keep their input in mind for future writing.

I have actually written a way more in depth quite on applications strategy, take a look here. For improving commercial awareness, my main pieces of advice would be to:

1. Listen to podcasts as much as you can in otherwise 'dead moments' (commuting, doing laundry etc) - I particularly recommend the FT News Briefing, Bloomberg News, The Lawyer, Watson's Daily, Law, disrupted.
2. Attend as many firms events as you can - in particular, I think you can find great use in online sign-up based events as they are very low-commitment. It may be worthwhile to sign up to the relevant newsletters so you are sure not missing anything you could easily attend.

 

[Miss Chocolate]

That’s really helpful thankyou, can I just ask when calling, would you mention a specific vacancy you were interested in? I’ve thought of calling but feel like I’m not sure what I’m saying😅

Nws xx Yeah, so just say something along the lines of you are calling to discuss the vacancy advertised and whether they are still recruiting or whatever else you want to ask about. Obviously, if you have no questions, there's no need to call! I just feel like a lot of the vacancies advertised in my opinion were left on the website for ages and weren't taken down so I was never quite sure!

 

[Andrei Radu]

This might sound like a silly question, but how do people prepare for VS? How do you know what to do during a VS? Is there anything that I should be doing now in advance of a VS? I haven’t worked in a city law firm before so I’m starting to overthink this whole process lmao. Any advice would be appreciated. Please help. 🥲🥲

@Andrei Radu @Amma Usman @Ram Sabaratnam​

I think unfortunately you can only prepare to quite a limited extent. I remember I was also initially quite stressed out by the fact that I did not feel I was doing 'enough' to be able to actually convert very competitive VSs. However, in retrospect this was not really an issue, and I also do not think there was much more I could have done to prepare without approaching a point of diminishing returns. But to return to your question, I can think of four main things to do before your first VS:

1. Keep up to date (even more than usual) with commercial awareness and firm-related news/developments. I particularly aimed to ascertain (a) if there were any gaps in my knowledge in either regard; and (ii) if there are any aspects where I can sensibly research more to then have an opportunity to show off detailed knowledge.
2. Brush up on your application essays, CV, and interviewing skills. You do not want to end up having forgotten important content points or being less articulate than in the VS interview.
3. Research in a lot more depth the work junior lawyers do (and just the general inner workings of) the practice areas you will be sitting in (here I recommend the Practical Law/Westlaw introductory guides) - this was extremely helpful in enabling me to deliver better on my tasks.
4. Reach out to current/future trainees or ex vacation schemers for insights.

 

[Jessica Booker]

Hi Jessica, is TCLA accelerator available to those with Bronze membership?

Apologies for any confusion on this (that is my fault), the Accelerator is only for Gold subscribers due to the bespoke 1-2-1 advice provided as part of the programme (which is in addition to the 1-2-1 calls and application reviews generally included in Gold).

 

[Zzzz]

to those whove given the bristows first round.... what even....

How did you find it

 

[Andrei Radu]

Amazing, thank you so much Andrei, this is very helpful and I will keep it in mind

On the competitors ques, how to answer that in the best way for Browne Jacobson? Is it correct to take the sector based approach and then the similar size based approach in order to determine competitors?

For a general 'who are our competitors' question think this will be fine, but I would also try to take a look at their practice area expertise and, if possible, to compare geographical spread. The concept of a competitor is a multifaceted one and there are other elements besides size and sector that are relevant for determining how much of a rival another firm is. In terms of resources, I advise you look at at both Chambers UK and Legal 500 tier rankings.

If you think you have the time, perhaps you can to divide your answer between (i) who are the firm's competitors in a broad sense (who are the most similar firms, ie what 'type' of firm are they) - which is what the aforementioned answer targets; and (ii) who are the firm's competitors at a sector/practice area-specific level. When I did this in a VS interview back in the day, the partner really liked this approach and praised me for it.

 

[Will123]

Is it foolish to use the same answer from the application to the same competency question during the interview?

 

[Andrei Radu]

Is it foolish to use the same answer from the application to the same competency question during the interview?

I do not think there is any issue with having an interview answer that mirrors an application form answer. I actually have no idea why this has become such an almost universally accepted myth - I personally never saw an issue with using the same reasoning as in your application. In many cases partners will not even review your application in any level of depth before the interview, and if they do, they will not as a result form an expectation for you to come up with a different reasoning as to your motivations, or skill set, or to use different (and less directly applicable) examples if asked the same question merely for purposes of variation.

They will simply expect you to answer the question in the most accurate and convincing way you can. This might necessitate some changes to the application form answer, both because the communication format is different, and because you might want to have a more nuanced/detailed analysis in view of potential follow ups. However, the main themes and ideas should likely stay the same. If anything, it would likely look somewhat suspicious if your fundamental motivations, skills and most relevant experiences were to all of a sudden be very different from the ones mentioned in the application form.

 

[ohnoselim]

anyone else who did the mishcon VI still waiting on a response?

 

[missTCLA]

hi @Jessica Booker ; wanted to ask what documents do a firm need for vs? is it just transcript / right to work ? Also, i was told by a firm id hear 'next week' regarding the offer in writing but its been a week and a half, shall i email them or give it more time? thanks in advance.

 

[Jessica Booker]

hi @Jessica Booker ; wanted to ask what documents do a firm need for vs? is it just transcript / right to work ? Also, i was told by a firm id hear 'next week' regarding the offer in writing but its been a week and a half, shall i email them or give it more time? thanks in advance.

When does the scheme start?

It’s really hard to say specifically what they will need as this can vary from firm to firm but generally transcripts, right to work, and proof of address (bank statement/utility bill) are the common documents needed.

 

[Miss Chocolate]

anyone else who did the mishcon VI still waiting on a response?

yep! I don't know if we should assume a PFO. looks likely. i don't think they send out anything in batches -- even with VI invites they were sent together, no?

 

[RaniaH062002]

Anyone had Brabners SJT sent out yet? And anyone who's previously done it? Any tips?

 

[vr36]

Anyone who did their AC's post the w/c 17th Feb still waiting on White & Case? Has been more than a month now...

 

[TC129129]

Anyone who did their AC's post the w/c 17th Feb still waiting on White & Case? Has been more than a month now...

Just from previous experience as someone who’s done a W&C vac scheme, they usually get back to successful candidates fairly-very quickly after an AC. This was the case for a lot of my cohort. It doesn’t mean you have been unsuccessful but just wanted to lyk. Wishing you all the luck

 

[0livia.pope]

Does anyone have any advice on how best to prepare for a case study exercise? I have no idea where to begin