RWK Goodman vi - didn’t find the questions too difficult but 20 secs to read the question and prepare??? Like let me breathe, give me a minute at least😭
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TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25
- Thread starter Jessica Booker
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- Sep 9, 2024
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If you are interested in just making partner, the easiest firm to do that at should be Kirkland. This might strike you as difficult to believe, but it is likely true, as Kirkland is known to have a policy to automatically promote every associate at 6 PQE to the status of non equity partner (NEP). It has been quite a successful business model as it allows them to keep the NEPs on exactly the same Cravath payscale that all top US firms have to pay at the relevant PQE level while also (i) enabling the firm to charge higher rates to clients (as many clients will simply be willing to pay more when they see the word 'partner', without enquiring much as to the promotion policies at the firm) and (ii) keep senior associates for longer at the firm without giving them equity in the business. As a result of Kirkland's success other firms have increasingly been starting to add non-equity partnership tiers as well, although I do not know of any that does it automatically.
I think in most cases a promotion to NEP at other firms is done either: (i) as a preliminary step in the path to equity, giving the firm a period to test out the person for a period, while also potentially waiting for equity places to open as a result of retirements; or (ii) in a similar vein to a counsel role, giving recognition to a practitioner for the highest level of technical expertise but who does not want/is not given a business development role and ownership of the firm. At firms besides Kirkland it normally comes with slightly higher pay than that for 8PQE associates (but never comes near equity partner compensation figures) and better flexibility around hours/WFH. While reaching a NEP tier is certainly difficult and requires a consistent track record of excellent technical ability over many years, it is not thought of as being very "competitive". This is in the sense that most people do not get/retain a NEP role not because they want one but are not given it by a firm, but that they either do not last enough in the profession to be considered for it (the primary reason, as big law has a very high attrition rate) or because they want equity partnership (as they stand to earn anywhere from 2-5 times what they would as a NEP even as a non-rainmaker).
The truly difficult task is making equity, and it is apparently only getting harder nowadays - firms are competing so fiercely for rainmakers on lateral hiring markets, and a high average PEP is the ultimate currency. As such, firms are guarding their equity tiers jealously and getting promoted is a feat that is more and more connected to business development outlook. Essentially, there is a tend towards a "winner takes it all" market, and this comes at a cost: those $7m+ average PEPs and $20m compensation packages for stars would not be possible with the promotion rates common 20 or 30 years ago.
Now, to come back to your question about which firms it is easier to make equity partner at: as Jessica said, there is no absolute answer. An argument can be made that the higher the average PEP of a firm, the more difficult will it be - a firm will need to see a significantly stronger business case for you to justify a dilutive effect on profit pools of $2 million (which is around what many junior partners will earn at V10 US firms) than of between 500-700k (which would be more the range for at midmarket UK firms). I have also been told by some people that making equity at a V10-V20 firm (who are generally the most profitable non-boutique firms in the world) is more difficult than in other places, particularly in a non-US office. However, my anecdotal evidence is limited to that effect, and I know it is also the case that those firms are able to charge significantly higher rates than rivals. This might mean that while it is indeed true that a top US/MC firm will need to see a stronger business case in your favour than a midmarket UK firm, the same level of business development skills that would have been needed for promotion at the midmarket firm could naturally lead to a stronger business case for promotion if you worked at a US/MC firm before (as you will have had regular contact and the opportunity to develop relationships with clients that would bring in higher revenues).
- Sep 9, 2024
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- 1,258
I think it might make sense to just send an email to SM asking whether you could reschedule for a later day. I would advise you not to mention the reason or that if you to to keep it vague (something like 'personal circumstances' perhaps?) as just mentioning another possible AC is not sufficiently impressive to justify the potential perception of the firm as having a lower interest in them (particularly since SM seems to me to be a firm that really cares about recruiting people that are sold on its model). If you do that, I do not see any downside with your SM. If you do not do it, there exists a possibility that you only hear back with the TI outcome too late for SM to be able to reschedule.Hey guys, just wanna reach out for some advice. I had a TI with a firm today, and the next stage is a two-day AC. Unfortunately, the first day of AC clashes with my interview with SM, but the first day is just an unassessed insight day to prepare us for the next day, so I might be able to miss it. I don’t know the outcome of today’s TI yet, but should I reschedule my SM interview just in case?
If I do reschedule, should I mention it’s due to another AC or give a different reason? Thanks
@Jessica Booker @Andrei Radu @Ram Sabaratnam @Amma Usman
hi, a bit random but I have a university dinner with alumni tomorrow (with v high-ranked people eg partners at mc/sc firms, barristers, future trainees). how can I best prepare? I've already retraced their linkedin profiles and chatgpt'd some questions to ask them, but I find it hard to make good conversation with people/being personable/what the etiquette normally is for these things? thanks
I have been to a bunch of these sorts of events- honestly the best thing to do is simply be normal and polite. If you have something you want to ask about then you should lead the convo towards that but I wouldn't shoehorn in a random careers question for the sake of it because that is going to come across as unnatural and a bit odd; you need to note that before they're a law firm partner etc. they're a person. Ask about their work for sure and try to take an interest, but I definitely wouldn't say something like "yeah I've preed your linkedin in advance of this dinner and know you did XYZ" because that's a bit scary lol💀
There are some little etiquette bits to keep in mind (handshakes, particularly for older people) but otherwise I'd say there's really nothing to be nervous about
try your best to enjoy it!
you might find this usefulWhat do group exercises at AC’s tend to entail? Is it negotiation exercises as that’s all I’ve heard so far and how would they work? Secondly how is best to prepare? Any help is appreciated
TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25
Tricky trying to get the motivation to write any applications after several post interview PFOs and getting ghosted by every other firm... do not have the energy for this, why does even trying to write an application reduce me to tears atm? I am sorry to hear you are feeling this way. Just know...
www.thecorporatelawacademy.com
Yes thankyou so much!!you might find this useful
TCLA Vacation Scheme Applications Discussion Thread 2024-25
Tricky trying to get the motivation to write any applications after several post interview PFOs and getting ghosted by every other firm... do not have the energy for this, why does even trying to write an application reduce me to tears atm? I am sorry to hear you are feeling this way. Just know...
Thank you, I really appreciate the insights! I’l reschedule just in case I’m lucky and can attend the AC. I’ll tell them about an exam I have on the same day, which has genuinely just come up recently. Thanks again
Thank youI have been to a bunch of these sorts of events- honestly the best thing to do is simply be normal and polite. If you have something you want to ask about then you should lead the convo towards that but I wouldn't shoehorn in a random careers question for the sake of it because that is going to come across as unnatural and a bit odd; you need to note that before they're a law firm partner etc. they're a person. Ask about their work for sure and try to take an interest, but I definitely wouldn't say something like "yeah I've preed your linkedin in advance of this dinner and know you did XYZ" because that's a bit scary lol💀
There are some little etiquette bits to keep in mind (handshakes, particularly for older people) but otherwise I'd say there's really nothing to be nervous about
ahh thanks for the heads up - j was going to do a few of those things because I thought it would show I’m keen but that makes a lot more sense!!!
What's a good strategy to secure a VS? Two years of applying and just rejection after rejection, I've gotten past the application stage twice, I'm definitely doing something wrong.
Maybe next week? I think their last London one was yesterday?
Hey, this used to be me. I will be honest, TCLA premium resources helped me More than anything. You get access to successful apps and courses on how to write them and More. I swear im not sponsored! I know not everyone can afford it but if you can, I recommend getting it for one month and going through their courses and successful applications database. This really changed the game for me. I used to barely get past the app stage, whilst this year I got 3 ACs and had multiple VIs/second stage tests. Good luck!
PS. However, there are many free resources.
I think the biggest thing is to REALLY research the firm (I know this sounds generic) and to master your answers to basic questions like why law etc.
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